completely frustrated any suggestions ?

[JAKEISGREAT]

You are right he is 3 1/2 .. I am sorry to be so upset.. he is 3 1/2 and while he has had issues with allergies etc. this is the first time he has been sick.. he never got sick even as a puppy so I am just concerned

Don't ever apologize for loving your Duke and worrying about him..that's your job!

 

[bullmama]

I have been following your story, but wanted to do a bit of research before I responded.

The ingredients in your previous food are this:

Dried Potatoes, Duck, Potato Protein, Cane Molasses, Canola Oil, Natural Flavor, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Natural Hickory Smoke Flavor, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein 13% minimum
Crude Fat 7.0% minimum
Crude Fiber 4.0% maximum
Moisture 10.0% maximum

This product is intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding only.

This is taken from the website of natural balance.

You have essentially COMPLETELY changed your Baby Duke's Diet.

Here are the ingredients in NVI Beef:

Beef Meal, Lamb Meal, Turkey Meal, Tapioca, Beef Fat, Pea Starch, Beef Liver, Beef Plasma, Natural Lamb Flavor, Coconut Oil, Sun-Cured Alfalfa Meal, Tomato Pomace, Montmorillonite Clay, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Carotene, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide), Sea Salt, Dried Kelp, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Yeast Culture, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract), Taurine, Carrots, Garlic, Apples, Pumpkin, Inulin, Mixed Tocopherols with Citric Acid (a natural preservative), Rosemary Extract, Freeze Dried Beef, Freeze Dried Beef Heart, Freeze Dried Beef Liver, Pumpkinseeds, Ground Beef Bone, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseeds, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min): 37.0%
Crude Fat (min): 20.0%
Crude Fiber (max): 3.5%
Moisture (max): 10.0%

My theory is that you switched the food too quickly. Because of the completely different variations of ingredients here, it has given Duke a tummy ache. A bad one.

As far as the poo being fine and firm for (6?) days, that would be expected, as it really does take a few days for it to get through their system.

Let me elaborate on this, because many years ago, our bully Sarah (the highly allergic one) was fine one day, and the next day she was pooing like crazy. She could not hold it. The look of terror in her eyes was so sad, I could not get mad. The poo consistancy was different tho, like almost 'foamy'---because it was full of gas..... I would give her 1 cup of food but she would poop out 6 cups. It was crazy, and yes there was a liquidy blood with it. After going to the vet, he asked me if I had made any changes to her diet recently. Well, I had switched her (slowly) from Iams puppy to Iams Lamb and rice- I KNOW YUK!!!! RIGHT???!!!! And this was about a week before this started happening. She was just turning 1 so I wanted to change her to adult food. Well, come to find out she was HIGHLY allergic to 3 of the ingredients in the food after we had blood tests done on her, Lamb being the worst.

My point of all this is that it does take time to see what happens with the food. I would also say that if it is causing any allergic reaction you may see poop consistancy of what I described.

So my theory is one of two things:

The food change happened way too fast, or you are giving too much of it per feeding. This is more than likely the case I think. This caused swelling in his GI tract.

The other is a possible allergy to one of the ingredients. Beef is considered a 'hot' food, many dogs do have allergies to this, but it is better than chicken usually. I don't think this is the case, however, because the poo was not that bad, and he was already tested for food allergies in the past (although they can develop later, so it is not impossible that he does not have any food allergies now).

So what now? What do you do?

Do the bland diet for a couple of days. Once things firm up, slowly start introducing the Nature's Variety into his diet.

Start with 1 cup of rice, and 1/4 cup of kibble. Do this for about 5 days and make sure all is still well. Then go to 1/3c kibble. (5 days) Then 1/2c kibble. (5 days) Then 3/4c kibble (5 days). Then decrease the rice amount to 1/2c (5 days) then none at all. Normally a food change should not have to go to such EXTREME measures, but this is to make sure there is no upset on his digestive system at all.

I don't think you should stick with the limited ingredient duck and potato because I don't think he is getting enough vitamins and protien. That food is used to try to identify a food allergy. Since he is not allergic to food, there is no reason he should be on this diet.

ALSO--- too much potatoes in that diet. I honestly believe you will see a huge improvement once you successfully make the switch to NVI, and hopefully in the end all of this will be worth the effort you are making. When this happens, I hope you will type up the whole story, and share it with others in the Dog Food and Nutrition articles section. Please keep us updated!

P.S. I also think it is unnecessary to give the tummy medicine at this point if his poops are improving and does not seem to be in any physical pain. But it is good to know for future emergencies!

 

[kazzy220]

I have been following your story, but wanted to do a bit of research before I responded.

The ingredients in your previous food are this:


This is taken from the website of natural balance.

You have essentially COMPLETELY changed your Baby Duke's Diet.

Here are the ingredients in NVI Beef:




My theory is that you switched the food too quickly. Because of the completely different variations of ingredients here, it has given Duke a tummy ache. A bad one.

As far as the poo being fine and firm for (6?) days, that would be expected, as it really does take a few days for it to get through their system.

Let me elaborate on this, because many years ago, our bully Sarah (the highly allergic one) was fine one day, and the next day she was pooing like crazy. She could not hold it. The look of terror in her eyes was so sad, I could not get mad. The poo consistancy was different tho, like almost 'foamy'---because it was full of gas..... I would give her 1 cup of food but she would poop out 6 cups. It was crazy, and yes there was a liquidy blood with it. After going to the vet, he asked me if I had made any changes to her diet recently. Well, I had switched her (slowly) from Iams puppy to Iams Lamb and rice- I KNOW YUK!!!! RIGHT???!!!! And this was about a week before this started happening. She was just turning 1 so I wanted to change her to adult food. Well, come to find out she was HIGHLY allergic to 3 of the ingredients in the food after we had blood tests done on her, Lamb being the worst.

My point of all this is that it does take time to see what happens with the food. I would also say that if it is causing any allergic reaction you may see poop consistancy of what I described.

So my theory is one of two things:

The food change happened way too fast, or you are giving too much of it per feeding. This is more than likely the case I think. This caused swelling in his GI tract.

The other is a possible allergy to one of the ingredients. Beef is considered a 'hot' food, many dogs do have allergies to this, but it is better than chicken usually. I don't think this is the case, however, because the poo was not that bad, and he was already tested for food allergies in the past (although they can develop later, so it is not impossible that he does not have any food allergies now).

So what now? What do you do?

Do the bland diet for a couple of days. Once things firm up, slowly start introducing the Nature's Variety into his diet.

Start with 1 cup of rice, and 1/4 cup of kibble. Do this for about 5 days and make sure all is still well. Then go to 1/3c kibble. (5 days) Then 1/2c kibble. (5 days) Then 3/4c kibble (5 days). Then decrease the rice amount to 1/2c (5 days) then none at all. Normally a food change should not have to go to such EXTREME measures, but this is to make sure there is no upset on his digestive system at all.

I don't think you should stick with the limited ingredient duck and potato because I don't think he is getting enough vitamins and protien. That food is used to try to identify a food allergy. Since he is not allergic to food, there is no reason he should be on this diet.

ALSO--- too much potatoes in that diet. I honestly believe you will see a huge improvement once you successfully make the switch to NVI, and hopefully in the end all of this will be worth the effort you are making. When this happens, I hope you will type up the whole story, and share it with others in the Dog Food and Nutrition articles section. Please keep us updated!

P.S. I also think it is unnecessary to give the tummy medicine at this point if his poops are improving and does not seem to be in any physical pain. But it is good to know for future emergencies!

Couldn't agree more, or say it better ... the only thing I could add, is that a fantastic food isn't fantastic for all bullys. Give this food about a month, and if it's not working try one of the other foods that come highly recommended on this site.

 

[BabyDuke]

I have been following your story, but wanted to do a bit of research before I responded.

The ingredients in your previous food are this:


This is taken from the website of natural balance.

You have essentially COMPLETELY changed your Baby Duke's Diet.

Here are the ingredients in NVI Beef:




My theory is that you switched the food too quickly. Because of the completely different variations of ingredients here, it has given Duke a tummy ache. A bad one.

As far as the poo being fine and firm for (6?) days, that would be expected, as it really does take a few days for it to get through their system.

Let me elaborate on this, because many years ago, our bully Sarah (the highly allergic one) was fine one day, and the next day she was pooing like crazy. She could not hold it. The look of terror in her eyes was so sad, I could not get mad. The poo consistancy was different tho, like almost 'foamy'---because it was full of gas..... I would give her 1 cup of food but she would poop out 6 cups. It was crazy, and yes there was a liquidy blood with it. After going to the vet, he asked me if I had made any changes to her diet recently. Well, I had switched her (slowly) from Iams puppy to Iams Lamb and rice- I KNOW YUK!!!! RIGHT???!!!! And this was about a week before this started happening. She was just turning 1 so I wanted to change her to adult food. Well, come to find out she was HIGHLY allergic to 3 of the ingredients in the food after we had blood tests done on her, Lamb being the worst.

My point of all this is that it does take time to see what happens with the food. I would also say that if it is causing any allergic reaction you may see poop consistancy of what I described.

So my theory is one of two things:

The food change happened way too fast, or you are giving too much of it per feeding. This is more than likely the case I think. This caused swelling in his GI tract.

The other is a possible allergy to one of the ingredients. Beef is considered a 'hot' food, many dogs do have allergies to this, but it is better than chicken usually. I don't think this is the case, however, because the poo was not that bad, and he was already tested for food allergies in the past (although they can develop later, so it is not impossible that he does not have any food allergies now).

So what now? What do you do?

Do the bland diet for a couple of days. Once things firm up, slowly start introducing the Nature's Variety into his diet.

Start with 1 cup of rice, and 1/4 cup of kibble. Do this for about 5 days and make sure all is still well. Then go to 1/3c kibble. (5 days) Then 1/2c kibble. (5 days) Then 3/4c kibble (5 days). Then decrease the rice amount to 1/2c (5 days) then none at all. Normally a food change should not have to go to such EXTREME measures, but this is to make sure there is no upset on his digestive system at all.

I don't think you should stick with the limited ingredient duck and potato because I don't think he is getting enough vitamins and protien. That food is used to try to identify a food allergy. Since he is not allergic to food, there is no reason he should be on this diet.

ALSO--- too much potatoes in that diet. I honestly believe you will see a huge improvement once you successfully make the switch to NVI, and hopefully in the end all of this will be worth the effort you are making. When this happens, I hope you will type up the whole story, and share it with others in the Dog Food and Nutrition articles section. Please keep us updated!

P.S. I also think it is unnecessary to give the tummy medicine at this point if his poops are improving and does not seem to be in any physical pain. But it is good to know for future emergencies!

wow can not tell you how much I appreciate all of this.. got home and he did have soft poop again and he threw up a little more bile. but he is acting fine. I sat on my sofa and cried my eyes out because I felt like I did this by changing his food ( like I said he has never been sick in the 3 years we have had him).. the right side of my brain knows from the research I did that the food I was trying was so much better for him but the left side ( the over sensitive knuckle head ) was kicking myself. so thank you thank you.. I will do exactly as said .. ironically this is what the vet told me today.. he said " I am 99 % sure this has happened because it was just too much too soon and a huge change.

I am so sorry to be a pest but when I do start to introduce it again would I stick with the beef flavor? or do you suggest trying something different? from all the tests done he has no allergies to beef?

thank you so much again for taking the time to send me this info!

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

Yes [MENTION=2]desertskybulldogs[/MENTION]..yes..I think this is what she should do too. I had to do almost this exact regime with Jake when I simply increased his food too quickly! It took me 6 or 7 days to get completely back on his kibble. Whew..I didn't realize beef was a trouble food until I read it here. Thanks for great info..as usual.

 

[bullmama]

Yes [MENTION=2]desertskybulldogs[/MENTION]..yes..I think this is what she should do too. I had to do almost this exact regime with Jake when I simply increased his food too quickly! It took me 6 or 7 days to get completely back on his kibble. Whew..I didn't realize beef was a trouble food until I read it here. Thanks for great info..as usual.

Yes it is, but for me, it is fine. The best choice usually for allergy food dogs is fish- but most fish foods do have some chicken in them. Since Tidus seems to have a major allergy to poultry I could not use fish formulas on him.

 

[bullmama]

wow can not tell you how much I appreciate all of this.. got home and he did have soft poop again and he threw up a little more bile. but he is acting fine. I sat on my sofa and cried my eyes out because I felt like I did this by changing his food ( like I said he has never been sick in the 3 years we have had him).. the right side of my brain knows from the research I did that the food I was trying was so much better for him but the left side ( the over sensitive knuckle head ) was kicking myself. so thank you thank you.. I will do exactly as said .. ironically this is what the vet told me today.. he said " I am 99 % sure this has happened because it was just too much too soon and a huge change.

I am so sorry to be a pest but when I do start to introduce it again would I stick with the beef flavor? or do you suggest trying something different? from all the tests done he has no allergies to beef?

thank you so much again for taking the time to send me this info!

I would continue with the beef. I don't see any reason not to. No matter which food you choose there will be a huge variation compared to a limited ingredient diet. Once you get him settled in to this diet, you should be able to change foods more freely.

Jesse used to have a hard time when I changed her food. But ever since we got on good kibble, I can change in just a few days even if it is completely different brands. It used to TEAR her up when I changed foods. But we did go from Iams, to AvoDerm, to Royal Canine, and finally on NVI, Nature's Logic or Fromm and once we got there she has no troubles. The other 4 bullies did fine with the changes at the same pace, but not Jesse.

On another note, don't EVER feel bad about wanting to do what is best for your bully. Sometimes as they say.... &*$% happens and it is what you do when faced with the problem that is what is the big picture. I think you getting off of that diet is the best choice you have made so far, but sometimes it takes time to find the right one. Normally a week change is enough, but sometimes it can be too much. In this case the dog foods are sooooo different!

 

[BabyDuke]

ok people I really need a drink now.. from my last post until now Duke really started vomiting a lot of bile and every 1/2 hour so hubby and I took him to the ER..and so glad I did but must tell you am really a wreck..
first of all they agree 100 % with desertskybulldogs suggestions.. but were glad we brought him in. they told us that the difference in the two food were soooooo dramatic and Dukes digestive system could not handle. ( aren't you guys glad I joined the forum!! ) all joking aside maybe we can use this horrible experience to help others changing over to a new food.
they gave him two needles to help him stop vomitting.. Cerenia an famotidine.. and sent us home with antibiotics and also proviable to help with the transition to the new food.
he is so sick I feel TERRIBLE, before I took him he couldn't even lay down he was so uncomfortable.

In any case no food OR water for 24 hours. they gave him fluid therapy ( under the skin ).. they told me tomorrow I can give him 1/4 cup of water every hour then start the bland diet tomorrow evening. BUT if he vomits tomorrow we have to bring him back and they will admit him to do further test.. they said if he is still vomiting tomorrow he could have eaten something that is blocking his system up ( but they do not feel this is the case )..

so we drive home ( about a 40 minute ride ) and he gets out of the car and throws up a little .. called they said it could be from the car ride and see how the night goes..

please please pray this works..I am a total wreck here in Philadelphia.

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

Omg Karen..how scary for you all. Here I have been thinking things would settle down. Thank god you took him right away. I can't believe how hard tis has been. Please know we are thinking positive thoughts and will keep checking in..love to duke..

 

[BabyDuke]

UPDATE: if you read a few replies prior we had Duke at the ER last night. He began to vomit badly and we were very concerned. Took him there. they gave him two shots to help him calm his belly and stop vomiting.. came home and told us to give him antibiotics and another med ( see previous thread ).. ANYWAY he finally fell asleep at 230 am slept til 9 am got up out in the yard more diarrhea then.............................. now sit down.. he passed the head of a toy he ate over a month ago!!!!!!!!!!! I called the vet hospital right away and they were GLAD also said if they would have xrayed him last night he would have been in surgery.. Right after he passed the toy he RAN through the yard and back into the house like the past 3 days never happened!!!

I am beyond blown away by this entire happening.. the vet still thinks the food may have irritated the situation?? Duke has only eaten a toy one other time and thrown it up so this was just a nightmare! he never gets toys anymore and I am just so thankful he did not have an obstruction. its amazing to me.. I was in contact with his primary vet, dermatologist ( who I really like and trust ) and the ER hospital ( who is one of the best in the state ) and yet everyone thought it was the food. funny thing is as much as I agree i switched him over maybe a little too quickly I knew deep down last night something was really wrong. he couldn't get comfortable and I was thinking the worst.

I hope in some way my crazy story helps others... I normally am a pretty together calm person but I feel like a FRUITLOOP these past two days!

the vet wants us to restart the bland diet again this evening.. ( after 7) with small amounts of water.. then after one week very very slowly try the new food again.

thanks everyone!

 

[sheshistory]

Whew - I'm so glad the mystery has been solved!

The EXACT same thing happened to my pup Truman a few months back, I should've mentioned or thought of this! Truman ingested part of a rope bone and was exhibiting the same signs as Baby Duke like the violent diarrhea and vomiting until he finally threw the darn thing up.

In my experience, Truman was still kind of out of sorts and threw up some water after he expelled the part of the toy he ate, which is probably why the vet said no eating or anything for now. Hopefully the bland diet will help get things back on track and you will be able to get Duke back on his new diet when he's better.

Well, I am not happy that Duke was sick or that he had a toy sitting in his tummy but it's good that you know what it was since there were a lot of variables at work there for a while!

 

[patricia]

hello!! hope your baby duke is doing better..
my bulldog used to have soft stool problems with royal canin - BULLDOG!!! I switched to Blue Buffalo BASIC and he is doing much better and helps a lot with his allergies... if you NVI food doesnt work maybe you can try that, but if there is more blood that is not a good sign maybe try another vet.
keep us informed!!

 

[BabyDuke]

Whew - I'm so glad the mystery has been solved!

The EXACT same thing happened to my pup Truman a few months back, I should've mentioned or thought of this! Truman ingested part of a rope bone and was exhibiting the same signs as Baby Duke like the violent diarrhea and vomiting until he finally threw the darn thing up.

In my experience, Truman was still kind of out of sorts and threw up some water after he expelled the part of the toy he ate, which is probably why the vet said no eating or anything for now. Hopefully the bland diet will help get things back on track and you will be able to get Duke back on his new diet when he's better.

Well, I am not happy that Duke was sick or that he had a toy sitting in his tummy but it's good that you know what it was since there were a lot of variables at work there for a while!

thank you so much for all of your help with this nightmare! as horrible as it was I do feel relieved.. poor thing is so hungry I feel mean but going to follow doctors orders.. thanks again!

 

[Lucy-licious]

I am so glad Duke is fine after such a traumatic few days
I would have flipped out big time too had that been Lucy I am glad the worst bit is over and you can spend the next week or so resting his system before changing food
so what food are you palnning to go with [MENTION=2091]BabyDuke[/MENTION]? back to NVI beef or are you gonna try something different?

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

So relieved [MENTION=2091]BabyDuke[/MENTION]..sooooo. Does duke have any more toys with heads on them? Had to run errands this morning and after hearing your story..I took up all toys that could be eatable!!