10 month old puppy aggression to older bulldog in home - Advice needed

[mcardle3]

This is Mosby.

Mosby is gorgeous. Mosby is fun. Mosby is sweet. Mosby is a dream on a leash, knows sit, stay, down, come. Mosby is 10 months old and Mosby has become a holy terror (think Cujo) to our older boy Custer.

We had big hopes to keep this boy unaltered as his breeding is very good, long history of phenomenal health in this line, temperament, no issues...just a great dog from a great breeder.

When he turned 10 months old, we started noting big issues between him and our older dog Custer (English bulldog 9/10 years old with degenerative spine.)

Mosby was side eyeing him. Growling at him. Over nothing we could see...we've since learned his triggers.

Mosby is great with our girl, Maisie. He never quarrels with her, only humps her and kissed her girl bits (yeah I said it). which she finds annoying, but it isn't hurting her. We make him stop.

Two weeks ago, he began aggressively attacking Custer. Custer's legs are now covered in puncture wounds from bites. A water bottle used to stop him (spray him in the face) but now, nothing stops him except pulling him off Custer. It is as if he doesn't just want to be dog pack leader, he wants him dead.

Our breeder who I trust 100% says it is not good to neuter them until 18 months due to growth and growth plate issues. My vet is encouraging us to do so now to calm him down.

For the immediate future the dogs are separated. When one is in the front part of the house the other is gated to the back side of the house, and vice versa. Maisie, sweetheart that she is, has full run of the house as she gets along with everyone.

So...what to do. Live until Custer goes to dog heaven with a gate separating them (we used to travel all over the country with all three...that can't happen anymore). Neuter him now? Suffer it to 18 months (just 8 more months, I may still have hair by then)...or what?

We have a call into a behaviorist, and hoping for some answers there...HELP!

 

[Manydogs]

[MENTION=4717]mcardle3[/MENTION] I have not had this problem, as I have all my dogs spayed/neutered. I do know that in the equine world, stallions HATE geldings(castrated). I suspect that Mosby is establishing himself as the alpha in the pack, especially since there is a female in the mix, and he is letting poor Custer know that he is not welcome! Male horses, when they are mature, will run the young males out of the herd,showing them whose herd it is. I suspect that this is what Mosby is doing.
Poor Custer, he deserves a good rest of his life. Many people have their dogs neutered at younger ages. I guess it depends on how much you value Custer.

 

[mcardle3]

@mcardle3 I have not had this problem, as I have all my dogs spayed/neutered. I do know that in the equine world, stallions HATE geldings(castrated). I suspect that Mosby is establishing himself as the alpha in the pack, especially since there is a female in the mix, and he is letting poor Custer know that he is not welcome! Male horses, when they are mature, will run the young males out of the herd,showing them whose herd it is. I suspect that this is what Mosby is doing.
Poor Custer, he deserves a good rest of his life. Many people have their dogs neutered at younger ages. I guess it depends on how much you value Custer.

I believe we can "value" Custer as well as find a solution to this problem with Mosby. If that means separation and Mosby staying home with a sitter when travel, so be it. My question is on the waiting to neuter, per the bulldog vet (vs my hometown vet) and breeder and things I'm reading about bone grown, vs just doing it now. I've had bulldogs for 40 years. I've taken in fosters, adopted, and bought. In all those years this is our first experience with this sort of issue.

 

[K9ldy]

I had Ozzie neutered at 8 months as he was getting an attitude with my other dogs. He is now 1 1/2 years old. Everything seems to be fine. No issues with his joints. He runs, jumps, plays with no problem. He is very active bulldog for a bulldog.

 

[helsonwheels]

I believe we can "value" Custer as well as find a solution to this problem with Mosby. If that means separation and Mosby staying home with a sitter when travel, so be it. My question is on the waiting to neuter, per the bulldog vet (vs my hometown vet) and breeder and things I'm reading about bone grown, vs just doing it now. I've had bulldogs for 40 years. I've taken in fosters, adopted, and bought. In all those years this is our first experience with this sort of issue.

Like mentioned this is an alpha issue. Has nothing to do with intact or not. Not at 10 months old. Time to grab him on the spot. Custer shouldn’t go through all this especially at his age. Your breeder is right to wait. But for time being that is definitely an alpha issue.

 

[2BullyMama]

Agree... he knows Custer is weak and trying to establish his dominating the pack. I’ve had all my boys neutered at 8-10 months without any issues, but if you do want to wait... bringing a behavioral trainer into home might be the answer.

Your handsome boy isn’t going to give up trying... you’ll need to learn his warnings and triggers to stop before he acts. I had a female like this... Banks, she was a 9 year training session


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[mcardle3]

Agree... he knows Custer is weak and trying to establish his dominating the pack. I’ve had all my boys neutered at 8-10 months without any issues, but if you do want to wait... bringing a behavioral trainer into home might be the answer.

Your handsome boy isn’t going to give up trying... you’ll need to learn his warnings and triggers to stop before he acts. I had a female like this... Banks, she was a 9 year training session

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9 years. Phew! That's a lot of work.

The vet figures that Custer will eventually lose the use of his legs, and his bowel/bladder from his spine. He's already moving like the sweet little old man he is. That boy is loved utterly. Such a big, goofy, lovey boy. He is the alpha. Maisie just wants everyone to love each other.

Mosby...ah, what a boy. Geeze.

I think we have decided to wait.

Here is my question about your 9 year project. Was she this way to one dog only or any dog she perceived as a threat? Mosby is now only doing this to Custer. We travel a lot and my fear is this will somehow segue to other outside situations with other male dogs. That is a huge concern for us.

 

[mcardle3]

Like mentioned this is an alpha issue. Has nothing to do with intact or not. Not at 10 months old. Time to grab him on the spot. Custer shouldn’t go through all this especially at his age. Your breeder is right to wait. But for time being that is definitely an alpha issue.

This begs the question then...if neutered will this alter the behavior, or at this point, likely not?

He is grabbed on the spot, or if we catch him side-eyeing (which is his tell) we redirect or admonish him to be a good boy. We know his triggers. Toys (so all toys are now gone except for when he is having one on one play time), my husband (who he looks at as a toy) and Maisie (the only female in the house and a big moosh).

He is now separated from Custer. When one is in the front part of the house (living room, dining room, entryway) the other is in the back (bedrooms bathrooms, office). We swap them out. If they are together in the living room (which is more for my husband and I than them) Mosby is on a leash.

It is a pain to take them out as now there are two trips each "go" rather than one (we live very rurally...no fence, on a lake with lots of coyotes so no one goes out alone EVER). It is a pain at feeding time, but actually peace has once again entered our home.

Here's the thing I find fascinating. He can easily see Custer through the bars of the gate. He never rushes it. Never growls. Never threatens through it. Whether he is on the side that is with us, or the side that is not.

 

[helsonwheels]

[MENTION=4717]mcardle3[/MENTION] He’s only 10 months old and at that age they like to push their weight around. Some members will say neutered will bring him down a few notches but as most knows me in here I’m NOT a believer in fixing a dog. This is such a western side of the planet thing. I had Duke fixed but it’s a vasectomy as I also have Nyala and both my son’s have 3 dogs each which they are often together or being babysat together. If you are in the same room as Mosby you should never split them up as that’s not helping him to understand he can’t attack Custer. Mosby needs to be trained with other dogs immediately. Never go to a dog park as those are the worse place to interact cause most dog park dogs aren’t being supervised. Start walking them together 2x everyday for a good while. I personally would go to a good trainer as the trainer will have you train Mosby with Custer. Eventually the trainer will introduce other dogs among Mosby. Nyala my brindle can really get nasty with Duke. Duke is like Grover on Sesame Street. Big suck. But Nyala is the one I keep an eye out on. When Duke was about that 10 months old she fought over a new toy. Both were against the fence and man did she grab him n hurt him bad right in front of me. I went up to her to get that toy out of the way but she turns around and growled n show teeth to me. I didn’t put my hand there cause back then neither wore collars n I couldn’t grab her. I pushed her with my foot so hard against the fence and she still showed teeth, I pushed her even harder with a very loud NO....YOU DONT DO THAT...NO....and she like clicked...To this day she knows she’s not alpha of the house. All this to say it has nothing to do with being neutered or not. Mosby is simply alpha of you n hubby and won’t share with Custer. Btw, there is more n more studies out there that proves neutering doesn’t calm all dogs down and sure doesn’t make them healthier for future issues. You have as many neutered dog out there that still attacks other dogs even children/humans, still get cancer and all other health problems. To my eyes neutered or castrations isn’t the key for aggression. Unless a neurological issue, it’s simply who’s at the other end of the leash. Training.

 

[2BullyMama]

9 years. Phew! That's a lot of work.

The vet figures that Custer will eventually lose the use of his legs, and his bowel/bladder from his spine. He's already moving like the sweet little old man he is. That boy is loved utterly. Such a big, goofy, lovey boy. He is the alpha. Maisie just wants everyone to love each other.

Mosby...ah, what a boy. Geeze.

I think we have decided to wait.

Here is my question about your 9 year project. Was she this way to one dog only or any dog she perceived as a threat? Mosby is now only doing this to Custer. We travel a lot and my fear is this will somehow segue to other outside situations with other male dogs. That is a huge concern for us.

Initially it was just our sweet boy (very similar to Custer).. just a bundle of love. But as she got older it became any dog she deemed wasn’t worthy of her presence.

Consistent Training and constant socializing was key with her. She attended daycare twice a week and usually got kicked out at least once a week during her stay but it kept her learning to accept. we learned her signs ( we called them ‘gang signs’) so we were able to stop her before she reacted. In all her 9 yrs, although a challenge, she never hurt another dog or person, but she always let you know she was boss... our beetchy freckled boss! I’d redo those years in less than a heartbeat.

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[mcardle3]

We begin with a trainer/behaviorist next month. There were booked up, but or initial phone conversation was enlightening.

Mosby sees me as the alpha. When the fighting starts my husband can shout, command, anything and they keep at it. I tell him to sternly stop it, and he does...til the next time. After they are stopped Mosby comes to me, submissive and wants to repent...until the next time.

Custer is fighting back, with him being old this is an issue.

Behaviorist is having us bring them both in, so yay there, as it is both of them. I have to keep them separated, and it was suggested by behaviorist that we do so until we can have a session. The tone in the home is tense right now with both of them ready to go at it over everything when they are together. We even tried having hem together in the living room on leashes. Quick corrections, etc. They still want to go at each other. She agrees on the walking but the issue is Custer's health. His spinal issues make him very painful when walking (he is on tramadol every day as well as carprofen). WE have begun making them go on short walks around our property with us.

 

[2BullyMama]

We begin with a trainer/behaviorist next month. There were booked up, but or initial phone conversation was enlightening.

Mosby sees me as the alpha. When the fighting starts my husband can shout, command, anything and they keep at it. I tell him to sternly stop it, and he does...til the next time. After they are stopped Mosby comes to me, submissive and wants to repent...until the next time.

Custer is fighting back, with him being old this is an issue.

Behaviorist is having us bring them both in, so yay there, as it is both of them. I have to keep them separated, and it was suggested by behaviorist that we do so until we can have a session. The tone in the home is tense right now with both of them ready to go at it over everything when they are together. We even tried having hem together in the living room on leashes. Quick corrections, etc. They still want to go at each other. She agrees on the walking but the issue is Custer's health. His spinal issues make him very painful when walking (he is on tramadol every day as well as carprofen). WE have begun making them go on short walks around our property with us.

Even one walk a day can help.... keep us posted!! Sending positive thoughts


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