When to neuter?

[Scueva]

What's the health benefit to waiting at least two heat cycles for a female? From what I understand, this significantly increases her chances of getting mammary cancer.

check out this link

http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php?p=1_23_Benefits-Risks-of-Neutering


http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...m_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130930Z1RTLUBIQ

 

[nycbullymama]

check out this link

http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php?p=1_23_Benefits-Risks-of-Neutering


http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...m_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130930Z1RTLUBIQ

Thanks for the links.

 

[Baxter Tiberius]

Sounds to me like the debate is:

1) Full development is most important to one person
2) Lowering risk of cancer and increasing longevity is important to the other person

If im reading correctly:

1) Waiting until 18-24 months ensures full maturation in males (masculinity, etc), but may increase their risk of cancers and shorter life.
2) Waiting until 6-12 months ensures longer life and lower risk of cancer, but possibly at the expense of less development / masculinity.

If that's correct, I would opt for option 2.
No question.

 

[s5nelson]

Both my vet and the breeder where Winston came from recommended him to be neutered at 6 months, so that's what I did. If I remember correctly, his testicles had dropped and he had started showing all of the signs of an un-neutered male, so it was a good time for him. He's got a huge head (that he loves to head butt me with) so I don't think that there was any issues with growth or health issues.

I did own a Great Dane and a Mastiff prior to owning Winston and for those breeds there were significant changes in both health and development when neutering too young. I actually asked Winston's breeder about it due to my prior experience with larger breeds, and she informed me that bulldogs don't have a noticeable change (as long as it's done around 6-8 months) and that it's usually a very rare case for it to effect developmental growth. She's been breeding / showing bulldogs for over 30 years so I figured I'd take her advice

 

[Scueva]

It's a debatable subject - each individual needs to trust their vet and make the right decision together. When to neuter is almost like talking politics to strangers- I bow out

 

[RiiSi]

Unfortunately there are studies made that say it's better to neuter early and studies that say it's better to waite. So you just have to make up your own mind what to believe. My boys are intact and I plan to neuter if needed, health wise. My boys get along perfectly and there is hardly a chance of accidental puppy's where I live. Voitto even could be used for breeding, but that is undetermined, he's only just under a year old. There is a chance his testicle will drop, will that make a difference in will you neuter or not? Or will you neuter any way?

 

[Scueva]

Both duchess and duchess are intact I will keep them that way unless health reasons come about. If I had a pup that didnt drop both testicles by a 12-18 months- I would neuter

 

[Pati Robins]

All my dogs where neutered at the age of 6 months -and grew as they should it makes me wonder if the "it will not grow or get masculine is a total rubbish " , as i didnt plan in breeding i didnt see a point keeping them intact -all of the lived long too ;-))

 

[nycbullymama]

Sounds to me like the debate is:

1) Full development is most important to one person
2) Lowering risk of cancer and increasing longevity is important to the other person

If im reading correctly:

1) Waiting until 18-24 months ensures full maturation in males (masculinity, etc), but may increase their risk of cancers and shorter life.
2) Waiting until 6-12 months ensures longer life and lower risk of cancer, but possibly at the expense of less development / masculinity.

If that's correct, I would opt for option 2.
No question.

Neutering at 18-24 months should NOT increase their risk for testicular cancer or prostate issues. If it did, I would of had Blue castrated by now. They're first reaching maturity at this age. The prostate issues don't start until they're much older.
The point of waiting for us is not so he grows bigger, it's because testosterone does help in proper joint development which to me, is very important in bulldogs considering how they have hip issues.

In fact, ask your vet the following specific question (this is only for male bullies) and see how they answer.

1. How does neutering at 6 months of age improve my dogs health?
The truth is it doesn't. Again, social issues- yes, marking yes.. health wise, absolutely none. There is not one study out there, that shows neutering a male dog so young decreases any kind of cancer or has any other health benefit.

edited to add: I'm wondering where exactly in this thread did you get the "Waiting until 18-24 months ensures full maturation in males (masculinity, etc), but may increase their risk of cancers and shorter life."
No one said, or even implied anything of the sort.

 

[Rural mystic]

Neutering at 18-24 months should NOT increase their risk for testicular cancer or prostate issues. If it did, I would of had Blue castrated by now. They're first reaching maturity at this age. The prostate issues don't start until they're much older.
The point of waiting for us is not so he grows bigger, it's because testosterone does help in proper joint development which to me, is very important in bulldogs considering how they have hip issues.

In fact, ask your vet the following specific question (this is only for male bullies) and see how they answer.

1. How does neutering at 6 months of age improve my dogs health?
The truth is it doesn't. Again, social issues- yes, marking yes.. health wise, absolutely none. There is not one study out there, that shows neutering a male dog so young decreases any kind of cancer or has any other health benefit.

edited to add: I'm wondering where exactly in this thread did you get the "Waiting until 18-24 months ensures full maturation in males (masculinity, etc), but may increase their risk of cancers and shorter life."
No one said, or even implied anything of the sort.

I agree and would go further and ask Why neuter your dog at all?
The actual health benefits are on the side of leaving the dog intact.
I have posted on this subject in this forum on other occasions and have sometimes felt like the contrarian and "a voice crying in the wilderness"
I know that this is a controversial subject and don't want to cause any consternation or hurt feeling but post this for those who are still undecided. I predict that in the years to come that the consensus will be on the side of leaving one's pet intact because of the evidence from research that is mounting and already exists. The only undisputed benefit of neutering is to prevent unwanted litters [ and Ace would have to be some sort of magician to pull that off, its so remote as to be practically nonexistent] and testicular cancer. But of course it prevents testicular cancer because their testicles have been removed [removing a healthy colon would also prevent colon cancer] but castration also eliminates the physical and psychological benefits of the hormone testosterone. What male mammal benefits from the removal of the hormone, testosterone, that is the basis of male physiology and characteristics? Unless there is some overriding present health event, not a supposed one, I will not have Ace neutered [castrated] I haven't seen any unbiased evidence of the benefit of castration and quite the contrary have every reason to believe my conviction is correct.

https://www.facebook.com/TedKerasote
Scroll down to June 26 post from Ted Kerasote
Also Ted Kerasote in an interview discusses why European dogs live longer than dogs in the states and one of the reasons is related to neutering. Link below
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...sible-reasons-dogs-live-longer-in-europe.aspx
Other links related to this issue.
http://naturaldogtraining.com/blog/the-debate-over-neutering/
http://www.caninesports.com/apps/search?q=neutering
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-herzog/the-ethics-of-neutering_b_2790315.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/7_9/features/Spaying-and-Neuturing_15649-1.html
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498

 

[Texas Carol]

I agree and would go further and ask Why neuter your dog at all?
The actual health benefits are on the side of leaving the dog intact.
I have posted on this subject in this forum on other occasions and have sometimes felt like the
contrarian and "a voice crying in the wilderness"


No Tim...you are not alone in your views, I completely agree with you. The spaying/neutering
of mere babies by shelters is criminal, in my opinion, and I would not adopt, especially large
breed dogs that have been neutered before maturation as there is much evidence supporting
bone cancers in these dogs as well as incontinence (females too) and many other problems.

I've rarely neutered my males, NEVER had behavior problems OR unwanted litters, of course,
you must be an aware and preventative owner but you should be any way. I do spay my females,
after maturity of the breed standard but hope in the future more vets will become proficient in
tubal ligation instead of complete removal of ovaries, etc. Too early spays causes many health
issues including emotional issues. GOD bless all!

 

[nycbullymama]

I agree and would go further and ask Why neuter your dog at all?
The actual health benefits are on the side of leaving the dog intact.
I have posted on this subject in this forum on other occasions and have sometimes felt like the contrarian and "a voice crying in the wilderness"
I know that this is a controversial subject and don't want to cause any consternation or hurt feeling but post this for those who are still undecided. I predict that in the years to come that the consensus will be on the side of leaving one's pet intact because of the evidence from research that is mounting and already exists. The only undisputed benefit of neutering is to prevent unwanted litters [ and Ace would have to be some sort of magician to pull that off, its so remote as to be practically nonexistent] and testicular cancer. But of course it prevents testicular cancer because their testicles have been removed [removing a healthy colon would also prevent colon cancer] but castration also eliminates the physical and psychological benefits of the hormone testosterone. What male mammal benefits from the removal of the hormone, testosterone, that is the basis of male physiology and characteristics? Unless there is some overriding present health event, not a supposed one, I will not have Ace neutered [castrated] I haven't seen any unbiased evidence of the benefit of castration and quite the contrary have every reason to believe my conviction is correct.

https://www.facebook.com/TedKerasote
Scroll down to June 26 post from Ted Kerasote
Also Ted Kerasote in an interview discusses why European dogs live longer than dogs in the states and one of the reasons is related to neutering. Link below
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...sible-reasons-dogs-live-longer-in-europe.aspx
Other links related to this issue.
http://naturaldogtraining.com/blog/the-debate-over-neutering/
http://www.caninesports.com/apps/search?q=neutering
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-herzog/the-ethics-of-neutering_b_2790315.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/7_9/features/Spaying-and-Neuturing_15649-1.html
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498

Thanks for the links, I've bookmarked them.

Your question, "why neuter at all?" well, I guess most of us have this predisposed notion that neutering is just part of being a good pet parent. We've heard the mantra for so many years so we just accept that it's the best
thing for our pet. I'm no different. Especially since I've never owned dogs.
It wasn't until we got Blue that I really started looking into it, and after researching for months, and speaking with my vet that I realized there's no benefit in doing it young.

But, testicular cancer and prostate problems do occur in intact males. And considering how many issues my poor pup already has, the last thing I want to do is add any health problems to the ever growing list.
The questions for me really are- by how much do the cancer risks increase? Meaning what percentage of intact males develop these problems? And 2. What health problems do castrated males incur that intact ones don't. That's something we never really hear about.

 

[Rural mystic]

Thanks for the links, I've bookmarked them.

And 2. What health problems do castrated males incur that intact ones don't. That's something we never really hear about.

Well some of the information your asking about is contained in the articles that were linked to. There is a higher incident of health problems connected to castrated males. For example the ucdavis article contains a link to the research paper that includes some of this data. http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0055937

 

[Pati Robins]

Reading this thread very interesting indeed with some great information i came to the conclusion that its a matter of personal choice -neutering -age ,or not doing it at all
Why i did do it is the fact that i always fostered dogs - some with difficult temperament that needed socialisation -least i wanted is one one my dogs got pregnant or get the foster dog pregnant when i wasn't around + in Poland i used to go on "sporting events" with my pits and after we had long walks in the fields -with all kinds of males and females
I also think that due to the fact of foster work/shelter help etc it kind of stuck in my head that i should neuter by looking at all thise great dogs (full breed or not ) looking for homes where there isnt enough people wanting to adopt
Im yet to check thise links out but i bookmarked them too ;-)

 

[Rural mystic]

Reading this thread very interesting indeed with some great information i came to the conclusion that its a matter of personal choice -neutering -age ,or not doing it at all
Why i did do it is the fact that i always fostered dogs - some with difficult temperament that needed socialisation -least i wanted is one one my dogs got pregnant or get the foster dog pregnant when i wasn't around + in Poland i used to go on "sporting events" with my pits and after we had long walks in the fields -with all kinds of males and females
I also think that due to the fact of foster work/shelter help etc it kind of stuck in my head that i should neuter by looking at all thise great dogs (full breed or not ) looking for homes where there isnt enough people wanting to adopt
Im yet to check thise links out but i bookmarked them too ;-)

Of course, I understand your decision. There are certainly legitimate reasons for having a pet neutered or spayed and I certainly don't want to come off as being against it in every case because I'm not. But for those who are undecided I want to drop my two cents worth in. I am of the opinion that in the states there has been such a wave of propaganda and rhetoric not to mention ideology in promoting the so called need for "fixing" one's pet. So much so and it has been repeated so often and for so long I think that many don't even give it a second thought and just do it almost as a rite of passage in being a responsible pet owner. And I would like to promote the suggestion that folks do the research first and actually examine the data instead of just going with anecdotal benefits that are oft repeated

As an aside I would caution everyone regardless of the arena or topic to be wary and dig deeper when euphemisms are replaced routinely for the actually word or description used in referencing a subject. This topic is a prime example. Such as "fixing" What was broken that needed fixing? "neutered" just an euphemism for castration. "Spayed and neutered" Well its just euphemisms for desexing and a radical form of sterilization. I think more owners would give it a second thought and perhaps recoil a bit if their Vet asked them " When do you plan on having your dog castrated?"