hoegaandit
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I would not do this. Although when my boy goes it will be one of the saddest days of my life, I do not want a replica who just looks the same but is not my boy.
If you had the resources would you clone your bully?
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Vicaroo1000
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I agree [MENTION=2729]hoegaandit[/MENTION] - The spirit of the animal is what makes them so special to us - but you can't replicate that. I used to think that I'd clone Mable - because she was so special to me - but I realize now that I'd not be doing the clone any favors. I'd be expecting a replica - and that's not possible. Now I have the opportunity to develop that same special relationship with two additional souls.
I am old and old-fashioned, but I would not mess with mother nature that way!
anatess
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It took me a while to join in this conversation when it is something that really interests me because I had to really think about it.
What threw me off is that it seems like the thread - as attributed to a lot of the responses given so far - look at cloning as getting an exact replica. This is not the scientific objective or expected outcome of cloning. Cloning is merely another process of "procreation" with the added qualification that it is an exact genetic match just like an Identical Twin. The difference between an Identical Twin and a Clone is that an Identical Twin is 2 siblings of the exact same genetic signature while a Clone is 2 non-siblings with the same genetic signature (I'm referring to the somatic cell nuclear transfer cloning method - just like the sheep Dolly, or popularized by the book and movie Boys from Brazil).
But, just like Identical Twins grow up to be 2 unique individuals - even sporting unique, albeit closely similar, fingerprints - so will the clone! The only thing making clones stand out is that both donor and clone would look super closely the same much as Identical Twins would. Everything else follows the same pattern of unique gene expression (hence different fingerprints). So that, even if we go beyond dogs and go to cloning humans because we really want another President Barrack Obama, you shouldn't be surprised if you end up with an allergy-laden, asthmatic, athritic, black man who can't dribble a basketball asking customers, "Do you want fries with that?" in a Southern drawl.
So, the question is not whether we want the exact same dog (immortal dog?) - because we won't. The question is whether we find the process of cloning as an ethical alternative to breeding.
My position is not firm on this. I usually deposit ethical questions to my Christian foundation and there's nothing in it that supports cloning and at the same time, there is nothing on it that opposes it.
In a situation where we want to preserve an endangered species or we want an alternative to farming for food consumption I don't see any ethical reason not to add cloning to the list of viable alternatives. When it comes to breeding dogs for a pet, I don't know. We haven't yet solved responsible traditional breeding methods with all the terrible breeders out there, I would hate to add another aspect to breeding that can be easily mis-used.
What threw me off is that it seems like the thread - as attributed to a lot of the responses given so far - look at cloning as getting an exact replica. This is not the scientific objective or expected outcome of cloning. Cloning is merely another process of "procreation" with the added qualification that it is an exact genetic match just like an Identical Twin. The difference between an Identical Twin and a Clone is that an Identical Twin is 2 siblings of the exact same genetic signature while a Clone is 2 non-siblings with the same genetic signature (I'm referring to the somatic cell nuclear transfer cloning method - just like the sheep Dolly, or popularized by the book and movie Boys from Brazil).
But, just like Identical Twins grow up to be 2 unique individuals - even sporting unique, albeit closely similar, fingerprints - so will the clone! The only thing making clones stand out is that both donor and clone would look super closely the same much as Identical Twins would. Everything else follows the same pattern of unique gene expression (hence different fingerprints). So that, even if we go beyond dogs and go to cloning humans because we really want another President Barrack Obama, you shouldn't be surprised if you end up with an allergy-laden, asthmatic, athritic, black man who can't dribble a basketball asking customers, "Do you want fries with that?" in a Southern drawl.
So, the question is not whether we want the exact same dog (immortal dog?) - because we won't. The question is whether we find the process of cloning as an ethical alternative to breeding.
My position is not firm on this. I usually deposit ethical questions to my Christian foundation and there's nothing in it that supports cloning and at the same time, there is nothing on it that opposes it.
In a situation where we want to preserve an endangered species or we want an alternative to farming for food consumption I don't see any ethical reason not to add cloning to the list of viable alternatives. When it comes to breeding dogs for a pet, I don't know. We haven't yet solved responsible traditional breeding methods with all the terrible breeders out there, I would hate to add another aspect to breeding that can be easily mis-used.
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JAKEISGREAT
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sheshistory
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I love Linus more than any human should love an animal. I think he's the most wonderful dog I've ever and probably will ever share my life with...that said, I wouldn't have him cloned. It would be important to me to love my future pets for who they are - not be disappointed in them for who they're not.
**I love my other doggies too but Linus has always been special to me. Yes, I play favorites.**
**I love my other doggies too but Linus has always been special to me. Yes, I play favorites.**
I wouldn't either, well for the reason of trying to bring Moe back, because I know that his personality is unique.
I do see a possible application for this though... what if cloning became very affordable? I know it is a common worry about the health issues associated with irresponsible breeding... what if you could get an affordable cloned Bully from a proven genetically healthy Bully? Would that change your mind about cloning?
I do see a possible application for this though... what if cloning became very affordable? I know it is a common worry about the health issues associated with irresponsible breeding... what if you could get an affordable cloned Bully from a proven genetically healthy Bully? Would that change your mind about cloning?
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I'm with some of you, in I would not clone. You may get a look alike, but will never get the same personality or the sweet heart you had. I will just keep them in my heart.
anatess
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Cloning is not for "bringing a dog back". Bringing a dog back would be to resurrect him from the dead. Cloning is nothing more than just a different process of creating another unique dog.
This is interesting. Of course, there is no guarantee that a clone will be as healthy as the cell donor. But you do have a higher chance of it being so. When done responsibly, I would think it might be genetically superior than line bred dogs. Currently, we bring about a desired trait using genetic selection through line breeding but because it combines two gene strands, the good is magnified with the bad. A clone wouldn't have that issue. Hmmm.... Of course, cloning is not very well explored in science due to current regulations surrounding it. There might be other "side effects" that we don't know about.
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wautersa
New member
My first response would be yes... since Chelsea could finally have her perfect playmate match.
But the best thing about each dog is how special and unique they are. And it is pretty sick to raise a puppy expecting them to be just like a different one. Each one should be appreciated and loved for being them.
But the best thing about each dog is how special and unique they are. And it is pretty sick to raise a puppy expecting them to be just like a different one. Each one should be appreciated and loved for being them.
Hell No! Hasn't anyone seen the movie Multiplicity? Sheesh!
Seriously though....I agree with cloning being a genetic match only. I love my babies more than anything in the world. But I loved Choctaw before them, and Drakkar before Choctaw. I'm looking forward to meeting my future babies after Vegas and Orion pass on. I agree, cloning a beloved pet will only satisfy one thing...your heart will be comforted by the looks of the pet. But the personality will be completely different. So, what do you miss more in a deceased pet? The way they looked or the way they acted? I bet you say...the way they acted. The way they loved. The way they looked at you when you said their name. The way they loved a certain stuffed animal. The way they loved to hang their head out the car window.
All the stuff you loved cannot be duplicated, unless it's the color of his fur and the swirls on his butt.
I believe it would lead to disappointment for that person seeking to bring a certain pet "back".
I would love to have another Vegas minus the epilepsy.
I would love to have another Orion minus the attitude.
Cloning could possibly do that for me.
But, I'd want my new Vegas to still snuggle me the way this Vegas does.
I'd want my new Orion to talk to me the way this Orion does.
Cloning would NOT do that for me.
Seriously though....I agree with cloning being a genetic match only. I love my babies more than anything in the world. But I loved Choctaw before them, and Drakkar before Choctaw. I'm looking forward to meeting my future babies after Vegas and Orion pass on. I agree, cloning a beloved pet will only satisfy one thing...your heart will be comforted by the looks of the pet. But the personality will be completely different. So, what do you miss more in a deceased pet? The way they looked or the way they acted? I bet you say...the way they acted. The way they loved. The way they looked at you when you said their name. The way they loved a certain stuffed animal. The way they loved to hang their head out the car window.
All the stuff you loved cannot be duplicated, unless it's the color of his fur and the swirls on his butt.
I believe it would lead to disappointment for that person seeking to bring a certain pet "back".
I would love to have another Vegas minus the epilepsy.
I would love to have another Orion minus the attitude.
Cloning could possibly do that for me.
But, I'd want my new Vegas to still snuggle me the way this Vegas does.
I'd want my new Orion to talk to me the way this Orion does.
Cloning would NOT do that for me.
OP
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I think as far as personality goes no it will not be the same , however if you take a clone and assume the same genetic traits are expressed as the original you may end up with a very similar personality. The nature vs. nurture debate has never been settled, but if the clone were raised in the same environment in the same family as the original a lot of the learning experiences would be the same. The major variables would be in utero experiences and early life experiences i.e. with litter mates and mother.Idk I'm curious to see how different they may or may not be.
Doesn't matter my heart says this if it were an option for me, I would do it. I realize I wouldn't be getting the same dog back but in some ways I would. It would be enough for me. I read a lot of comments about loving a new, different dog and forming a new bond. I Know in my heart as bad as it may sound , that I will never be able to have what I had with Dozer with a different dog. He has been gone four very long months now and at least 2 days a week I cry my eyes out because I still miss him so badly. That doesn't mean I don't or couldn't love a different dog it just won't ever be the same or as deep is it was with him. I lost a very large piece of my heart and self when he passed away. I suppose the argument could then be applied that a clone would not fill that void either, but I think in some ways it would. The physical characteristics the puppy would have would help a tremendous amount. The heart is capable of tricking the mind and I imagine the same feelings would start to arise as with the previous dog, just like muscle memory it would be emotional memory.
Doesn't matter my heart says this if it were an option for me, I would do it. I realize I wouldn't be getting the same dog back but in some ways I would. It would be enough for me. I read a lot of comments about loving a new, different dog and forming a new bond. I Know in my heart as bad as it may sound , that I will never be able to have what I had with Dozer with a different dog. He has been gone four very long months now and at least 2 days a week I cry my eyes out because I still miss him so badly. That doesn't mean I don't or couldn't love a different dog it just won't ever be the same or as deep is it was with him. I lost a very large piece of my heart and self when he passed away. I suppose the argument could then be applied that a clone would not fill that void either, but I think in some ways it would. The physical characteristics the puppy would have would help a tremendous amount. The heart is capable of tricking the mind and I imagine the same feelings would start to arise as with the previous dog, just like muscle memory it would be emotional memory.
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