Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

[Chellesdiamond]

Thank you!! You all are really helping me feel as if it wasn't my fault!! Giving me peace!! I don't want to be known for being irresponsible, especially when there are little lives trusting my decisions!! Thank you ️

There are a lot of possible problems during bullie free whelping. 8 babies in your case is a very generous litter, and uterus in multiple pregnancy is overstretched, therefore during labour it cannot sometimes contract as strong as it is nesessary many times to push each baby out. Also, uterus contractions go like waves, sometimes becoming less active and after several babies It could be just bad luck - big dead baby was coming out when contractions became lesss active.
You also said, that one dead baby looked strange, I also noticed that one alive pup is two times bigger than other, don't you think that she was inseminated twice and may be conceived twice, with several days span, it can happen, rare, but possible. And then may be this dead baby was due earlier, but because of his location or other reasons, labour didn't start in time for him, but too late and he just died a day or two before all other babies were ready to come out? His placenta started to separate, but no full range labour occurred. So, he suffocated. I remember, that signs of close labour - mucus, etc in Diamond started, then stopped for couple of days.
Anyway, you did a great job, Diamond is a real hero and best wishes to your bullie and human family! And kisses for those pink little faces!

Wow!! I agree with absolutely everything you said!! You are very smart!! Two of the babies are half the size of the others so something definitely happened. She was also showing mild signs, as you mentioned, of possible stage 1 labor for quite a few days so I think the first still born was ready earlier, like you said. I don't know if I'll ever breed her again- I want to because I have a stud from my Bella girl that I'd love to have a baby from my Diamond and my Bella but, I don't want to be selfish and risk her. If by slim chance I decided to I honestly don't know what route I'd take as far as free whelping or elective cesarean section. We have one of the top English Bulldog vets here in Colorado only an hour and a half away from us. Maybe we'll get his opinion. What do you think?

 

[helsonwheels]

So out of 6 litters you have had 4 natural whelpings. Don't question your self that is great result. Yes, some people may think your playing russian roulette, but let them. If you don't want to take any risks, don't breed. C-sections really are not risk free.

I agree with you [MENTION=3354]RiiSi[/MENTION] 200%!!! [MENTION=16970]Chellesdiamond[/MENTION], aiming for natural whelping? I would of done the same decision. C-sections are also risk and even for women giving birth. You went to the vet numerous times, asked the right questions, vet followed Diamond pregnancy from the start etc etc....stop questioning yourself. Like I said GOOD JOB GIRL!!!

You know, people got to stop thinking EB are are doomed as health wise. Yes they might be a bit higher risk for breathing issues but we can't put all EB in the same boat. Tons of EB lives normal lifes if you do the proper maintenance and especially buy "any" dog from reputable breeders you're off to the right start. We are on an EB forum, of course we'll read all sorts of scary stuff, great stuff and even down right funny cracking up stuff. But heh, go on any forum, trust me you will read a lot of unhealthy other breeds. So again [MENTION=16970]Chellesdiamond[/MENTION] great job! That's MY 2 cents, whoever don't like it, c'est la vie! :D

 

[Lalaloopsie]

I think you shouldn't be discouraged with your latest experience, it was just coincidence of some factors which are unlikely you happen again, so, when you are ready I think you can try to get some more of these fluffy balls.
I also think that if you strongly believe in free whelping and you had 4 perfect ones, you shouldn't be scared to do it again. I am sure that with the help of your vet you can always succeed.
Personally I am a human doctor, so I believe in medicine and have no problem with CS. I think that most of the risks of SC are very predictable and therefore if they develop, you can address them quickly and effectively. Natural labour risks occur suddenly and not always you know immediately for sure what is wrong, and it takes time sometimes to diagnose and address them, what can cost some baby lives. But, again, it is may be just because I know too much about medicine and always think of possible complications
Btw, when I had my daughter (she is 13 now), I started to bleed at 8 month pregnant. Doctors tried to keep the pregnancy for 1 day, but it didn't help and they said that we have to deliver her. I used to have very bad eyesight with retina damage, so from the very beginning of my pregnancy I was recommended scheduled CS. But, when that bleeding started and treatment didn't help, doctors told me "ah, baby is just 2 kilos, may be let's go into labour, it will be quick and easy". But I was too scared to lose some more vision, so I chose CS. I was selfish at that moment, frankly speaking. When my girl was delivered, it turned out, that she already suffered for some time from lack of oxygen and tried to breath inside, and aspirated some waters. She had severe pneumonia because of waters inhalation and was on supported breathing for 1 MONTH. Doctors frankly told me - if I chose natural labour, she would be dead in process, or would be born with severe brain damage due to lack of oxygen. Since then I celebrate my bad sight like a gift of destiny that kept my daughter alive and well.
For me CS worked magic. At the same time, I have huge respect for women and female dogs that give birth naturally and take pride in it. I think that you must first take some rest after your and Diamond's ordeal, and then go with your gut - to breed or not to breed, CS or natural birth.

 

[Lalaloopsie]

Also one funny fact. I stay now in China and they have unbelievably high percentage of human CS, I think, one of the highest in the world. Like 70 percent or so. It is partially bcs many Chinese ladies naturally have not very wide hips, but except for this reason, in China they perform CS just upon request. Without medical indications, which is very strange for me. In Europe usually you have to have some medical condition that makes natural birth dangerous, normally you cannot just say "I want CS because I want it". And 2 main reasons for request CS in China are 1) safety of CS versus natural birth for baby and 2) fear of pain. You know, you can have only 2 babies in China, people don't want to take a risk of natural birth (before they were allowed even 1 only!).

 

[RiiSi]

I have to say this is madness I have friends with very narrow hips and they have delivered babies without any problems. It's amazing that there is so many chinese people...They didn't just start multiplying by the billions after C-section was invented...

Also one funny fact. I stay now in China and they have unbelievably high percentage of human CS, I think, one of the highest in the world. Like 70 percent or so. It is partially bcs many Chinese ladies naturally have not very wide hips, but except for this reason, in China they perform CS just upon request. Without medical indications, which is very strange for me. In Europe usually you have to have some medical condition that makes natural birth dangerous, normally you cannot just say "I want CS because I want it". And 2 main reasons for request CS in China are 1) safety of CS versus natural birth for baby and 2) fear of pain. You know, you can have only 2 babies in China, people don't want to take a risk of natural birth (before they were allowed even 1 only!).

 

[Lalaloopsie]

I was stunned myself with the numbers. But nothing can surprise me in China anymore. This is one big wonderland and not all wonders are amazing...

 

[Chellesdiamond]

[MENTION=15780]Lalaloopsie[/MENTION] I have to say that I'm not surprised that you're a doctor, very smart and it shows! That's a crazy story about your daughter and what a great ending!! I had an emergency cesarean with my second son (prolapsed cord) and then I almost died 6 weeks later because there was placenta left in me. So when I had our third son I fought for a natural delivery and was denied the chance. I was pissed but God was watching over us because turns out my big ol 9 pound boy had undiagnosed complete placental previa and a natural delivery would have killed us both. My dream was to be an OB nurse but I couldn't finish schooling because we run our own business and the business needed me. I took on "breeding" to fulfill my desire of the birthing process (among other reasons) and aspired to become a "midwoof". I understand that birth isn't always perfect and can get complicated (I'm an EMTb also). Being that it's my girls that I love so much is where it gets too personal for me and as you can see I torture myself with what I could have or should have done differently. Maybe I needed this experience to put in the books as they say. I want to keep going but I got scared. I also haven't had much sleep so my mind is foggy and you make a great point at saying that I should rest and then decide. Thank you!!! Very very much!!
[MENTION=15310]helsonwheels[/MENTION] thank you for being such a great support to me throughout this journey!! Having such great informed and smart people by my side such as yourself has really helped me gain peace and rid some guilt!! You all don't know me yet you have supported me like you're my long time friends!! Truly amazing!! Thank you ️

 

[helsonwheels]

[MENTION=15780]Lalaloopsie[/MENTION] I have to say that I'm not surprised that you're a doctor, very smart and it shows! That's a crazy story about your daughter and what a great ending!! I had an emergency cesarean with my second son (prolapsed cord) and then I almost died 6 weeks later because there was placenta left in me. So when I had our third son I fought for a natural delivery and was denied the chance. I was pissed but God was watching over us because turns out my big ol 9 pound boy had undiagnosed complete placental previa and a natural delivery would have killed us both. My dream was to be an OB nurse but I couldn't finish schooling because we run our own business and the business needed me. I took on "breeding" to fulfill my desire of the birthing process (among other reasons) and aspired to become a "midwoof". I understand that birth isn't always perfect and can get complicated (I'm an EMTb also). Being that it's my girls that I love so much is where it gets too personal for me and as you can see I torture myself with what I could have or should have done differently. Maybe I needed this experience to put in the books as they say. I want to keep going but I got scared. I also haven't had much sleep so my mind is foggy and you make a great point at saying that I should rest and then decide. Thank you!!! Very very much!!
[MENTION=15310]helsonwheels[/MENTION] thank you for being such a great support to me throughout this journey!! Having such great informed and smart people by my side such as yourself has really helped me gain peace and rid some guilt!! You all don't know me yet you have supported me like you're my long time friends!! Truly amazing!! Thank you ️

I worked 20yrs with teens and trust me, if you're not 10 steps ahead of them, you are soooooo fried it's not even funny.... But honestly, EBN members are all the same "we" are all here for one another!!!! If one cant help, it's going to be passed on or someone will see the post to answer it.