Help Needed! On the edge,

[Halibee]

So our Stella is putting me on the edge. She is just over 1 y/o. Not spayed. Gets very aggressive with our 6 y/o Golden Retriever. She is our first English Bully. My husband adores her, I love her and get extremely stressed and exhausted monitoring her, watching for the slightest twitch of "attack mode" to try and head it off before it begins. She is the last dog in the house. She really doesn't bother the 13 y/o Lab. Murphy and Stella started out as playmates, and she really does like him. She likes to sleep near him or sit near him. He licks her face. But there are times she just tears after him, knocks him down and tries to take him "out". We separate her an put her in her crate to cool off. Have the Leash on her to grab her if she isn't quite ready. I don't understand the behavior. We've recently gone through training with a private trainer to help with her issues. Honestly, I will walk her, but I try to avoid other dogs because I never know how she will act. Sometimes she doesn't care and often it's like holding onto a mini tank on four legs. I'm getting better with the distractions, I just am out of ideas. I keep trying to look at things through her eyes to see the attraction, as she sees the world so different. She also started off not caring about our parrots, now she is aggressive with one if he falls off his perch and the other is a playmate for her, cuz she's just as evil . But really I am wanting to save our "family unit" with her. But I don't want harm coming to our Golden, who is neutered.

Any help or suggestions are welcome. I really feel I am looking on the edge of a cliff here. Before we got her, I didn't know about your group, and everything I read was calm, quiet, couch potato, etc. Not this high energy, high strung, bossy, defiant, always trying to out think you, kind of dog. I learned that I DON'T speak Bulldog, I am learning but it's a process. I speak many other breeds just fine, retriever and working breed alike. But this is all together a whole new world.

Thank you in advance.

 

[ddnene]

I'm so sorry to hear about your baby Stella… I'm going to tag some experts on the subject. Sounds like you are really trying to get this sorted out, I know that my bully Wally likes to go after our boxer Roxie who is 10. Wally is only 10 mos so I know that most of this is just being a puppy, but I do try and give Roxie a break because I know that this does get on her nerves. Bullies DO tend to be Alpha dog, and that can be difficult to control… Good luck!!!

 

[Davidh]

That can be a hard one to deal with and some will never get out of it especially if one of their sire or dam was aggressive to other dogs. Try nothing in life is free and also walking them together. You might even try keeping a leash on Stella in the house so you can control her better if need be. Any time she gets close to your Golden then tell her NO!! and make her walk away. Good luck with this and I hope it works.

 

[cali baker]

Stella is still so young at 1yo and still trying to figure out her "place" in your household, it sounds like. One of my bullies, Finn, is similar in that he tries to be the "boss" in the house, and will be aggressive towards my other boy. I try to walk them together as often as possible which you could try doing w/your other fur kids; and when you walk Stella and you see other dogs being walked, try not to avoid them b/c if you do that then Stella won't really be learning how to behave when she passes other dogs. Instead, just keep walking, don't even stop and try to relax. She senses your anxiety and may be feeding off that. When i walk Finn and we pass another dog, I tell Finn "Mind your business" and I just keep walking along, no stopping.

I know it's hard work but it's definitely worth it b/c our bulldogs can be stubborn and determined little rascals.

 

[dalmatina38]

Bulldogs do have a mind of their own and are very different than other dogs. Mine are possessive of their things and lately Ruby has become a bully and goes after Amber. Ruby turns two in five months and is more of an Alpha than Amber. Ruby gets in trouble regularly over the aggressive behavior towards Amber and ends up in the crate looking out at everyone else. I just snatch her up by the cuff of her neck, tell her no, and put her in her crate. Then I pay special attention to Amber and play with her while Ruby is watching. It makes Ruby mad but once I leave her back out she behaves and if not she is right back in the pen. I have a supper soaker gun I use too when she starts being aggressive, she gets the spray. I have it filled wit hater and a bottle of lemon juice so it doesn't taste great, she gets the point. I am going to spay Ruby here soon and that will probably resolve some of the aggressive behavior. Amber is already spayed but I didn't want to spay Ruby until she was close to two. Good luck.

 

[Halibee]

Thank you all for your support. I started today fresh with her and was going with a different tactic. I let her out of her crate, had her "place" , and put her collar and leash on. She would go over towards Murph and I could see her thinking about it. I called her back and rewarded her with a toy. I went upstairs to get my shoes and she followed cuz I was going to walk her and see if we could burn off some of this energy that seems to be emanating from her. On the way down she just hurled past and went right for him. I grabbed her, put her in "place". Let her calm down. and then I took her for the walk and we worked on sitting at corners, heeling and walking past distractions. She was exhausted when we got home. They all ate happily and she took a little nap next to him. She woke up came and I invited her by me where I pet her and talked to her etc. She then promptly went after him again. I grabbed her by the leash, cuz it's staying on for now unfortunately and escorted her to her crate for a time out.
Now she is back to sleeping next to him. He has no idea what she's doing or why and I feel bad for him. She may be getting ready for a heat, her last one was in April and lasted several weeks.
Do you think spaying her would help the situation any, I am leaning towards it.
We met her mom and she seemed pretty docile. She came and said hello and then wanted to go out for her "run" with her "dad". The male they had wasn't the father of the pups. Her father belonged to the owner's brother. As far as we knew he was even tempered too. And we didn't just pick her, we did the whole play with the available pups, see who if any chose us, etc. Thought we really did this right.
So I am going to continue to try some tricks. I really don't want her to be "that dog" that is separate from everyone, what kind of life is that for her? She should be included. But I am having such a hard time with her.
I am going to try the walking them together and see if we cant redirect a bond of tolerance. Wish me luck! And I will be bothering you all again for more tips and tricks.
Again, thank yous so much

 

[Pati Robins]

I think that spaying and hard work might help- but it all really depends on the individual dog
The only problem we got-and this was purely my fault to prove the point in a resource guarding

I second others -it might be all due to the fact that she is trying to be the stronger dog in the house -even tho i dont really believe in a "alfa" position
Can i ask if you recall her triggers -how does it all start ?
It could be anything really - toys/ food being served to family members / tight spaces anything ? Once you figure out her triggers the easiest step is to try to eliminate or avoid them -before trying to work in overcoming it
Believe it or not when it cones to spotting triggers you can "feel the tension" in the air before it all kicks off
Invisible for human dogs have different stares on each other -when Lilly does NOT want Shy near her for whatever reason she will stare her off and if Shy ignores her she take the posture before trying to chase her off (read go for her)
We thought Lilly to back off & leave -and she will do so -not happy but she will
We also work on simple commands with girls to seal the bond and ease of the tension as the more they were separated the harder it got - we use treats and as a reward after we play some fetch
We also work 1 on 1 -and make sure neither of the girls feel that they are more special than the other one
Lilly is only "gobby" when im around - but is Shy does decide to eat her food ( for more on it look up resource guarding blog post) lilly will go to the corner upset looking for me
In a way im also her trigger as she knows i will protect her as shes smaller and if Shy wanted it she could do damage .
So to round it all out -you meed to look for triggers to asses your situation x
Whatever pointers dog trainer gave you need to me put in place all the time - without fail or giving slack x

Going onto a heat can make them a bit "touchy" too-like us women :-)))

 

[2BullyMama]

Thank you all for your support. I started today fresh with her and was going with a different tactic. I let her out of her crate, had her "place" , and put her collar and leash on. She would go over towards Murph and I could see her thinking about it. I called her back and rewarded her with a toy. I went upstairs to get my shoes and she followed cuz I was going to walk her and see if we could burn off some of this energy that seems to be emanating from her. On the way down she just hurled past and went right for him. I grabbed her, put her in "place". Let her calm down. and then I took her for the walk and we worked on sitting at corners, heeling and walking past distractions. She was exhausted when we got home. They all ate happily and she took a little nap next to him. She woke up came and I invited her by me where I pet her and talked to her etc. She then promptly went after him again. I grabbed her by the leash, cuz it's staying on for now unfortunately and escorted her to her crate for a time out.
Now she is back to sleeping next to him. He has no idea what she's doing or why and I feel bad for him. She may be getting ready for a heat, her last one was in April and lasted several weeks.
Do you think spaying her would help the situation any, I am leaning towards it.
We met her mom and she seemed pretty docile. She came and said hello and then wanted to go out for her "run" with her "dad". The male they had wasn't the father of the pups. Her father belonged to the owner's brother. As far as we knew he was even tempered too. And we didn't just pick her, we did the whole play with the available pups, see who if any chose us, etc. Thought we really did this right.
So I am going to continue to try some tricks. I really don't want her to be "that dog" that is separate from everyone, what kind of life is that for her? She should be included. But I am having such a hard time with her.
I am going to try the walking them together and see if we cant redirect a bond of tolerance. Wish me luck! And I will be bothering you all again for more tips and tricks.
Again, thank yous so much

All the members gave great advice and you are doing all the right stuff to get her to understand you are the lead and she needs to follow your command. That said, you have my Banks with you.... it is her world and everyone else gets to participate when she wants you too and how she wants you too. I assume all the other animals in the home were there before her.. basically, she came into the current pack? This was the situation with Banks as well, she was after our boy and she did all the things you mentioned (my avatar picture is an example) sunuggle and sleep together one minute... next she would be ready to tear him apart. You have to learn her body language, watch for signs and re-direct her before she strike or makes a move... when correcting stay calm with a firm NO.... get a spray bottle add water and squirt her in the side of the face when saying NO. You have a long road and I will not sugar coat it, it does not go away... it is controlled and training that will keep her inline.

Banks has been this way since 4 months old when we got her and still is at age of 9 yrs.... we sent her to doggy boot camp (full week at a trainer home), we had the trainer come to us at home and train us on how to read her body and behavior. She is consistenly hit or miss with other dogs and we limit her walks to when we know there is less chance of other dogs being around. She wants to rule the world and we have to jsut keep reminding her that is not allowed or acceptable behavior. She is an awesome fun, loving girl especially with childern and other people, but any dog see feels is a threat to her 'dominance' .. well, she will lock in and try to take down.

3 years ago we brought Cheli )French Bulldog) into the home... it took us a full week to get her to accept him enough for play (introduction, meetings, walks) after that we brought him to our house for an over night trail... he stayed the weekend and all was great, however she still sends him signals/vibes that we as humans can not see or hear, but Cheli reacts by turning his back, not lookig at her or leaving the room... when he does this, we refer to Banbks as 'throwing gang signs' and we correct her. it is actually comical at times, cause you can almost tell, she is thinking 'how the hell did you know i was up to something?' and she ends up crating herself

Nothing in life is free was a BIG part of our training with her and it did help a lot. You have the right advice and have the tools and frame of mind to make it work.... just get ALL humans on the same page, stay consistent and deligent with her and all will be well.

Best of luck

 

[binxrexchubbs]

In agreement with the other members. They always give great advice.
Chubbs is still a puppy so we're still trying to figure him out. He likes to do this thing while we're both in the house & outside. He'll be sweet & the next second he's jumping up at us, biting our clothes to play tug of war (I think), stuff like that.
Good luck!

 

[Halibee]

Two days ago she really was pushing my limits of tolerance. I re-evaluated and reassessed and am trying another tactic. I feel like I keep going into a warehouse and pulling a new bag of tricks every day. Yesterday was a better day, she still went after him, but couldn't get to him as I had her by the leash. She did the whole run around me like a maypole thing to her loss. I escorted her to the crate for a timeout and pet Murph in front of her. Everytime she glared I told her no and Murph good boy. I let her out, still leashed, after she calmed. The rest of the night was me telling her no everytime she looked at him or walked too close to him. Stopped letting her on the sofa, but let him. She truly didn't know what to do with herself last night. She was very pacey and you could see her vibrating from within. But there were no other instances last night. Granted I couldn't let down my guard or relax either. Today, so far no instances. She walks up to him ears do their thing I tell her no. Looks at him for a second too long, again no. She doesn't like it, but today, so far, more controlled. She wanted to claim the landing on the stairs as hers and I escorted her down an had her sit. Took her for a long walk (well long for her), best walk we have had. So yes, I am giving it another go. Wish me luck.

 

[Pati Robins]

My only worry would be -if you dont let her come near your boy at all and every time she looks at him or does anything and hears no -how beneficial would that be in improving their relationship?

 

[2BullyMama]

Two days ago she really was pushing my limits of tolerance. I re-evaluated and reassessed and am trying another tactic. I feel like I keep going into a warehouse and pulling a new bag of tricks every day. Yesterday was a better day, she still went after him, but couldn't get to him as I had her by the leash. She did the whole run around me like a maypole thing to her loss. I escorted her to the crate for a timeout and pet Murph in front of her. Everytime she glared I told her no and Murph good boy. I let her out, still leashed, after she calmed. The rest of the night was me telling her no everytime she looked at him or walked too close to him. Stopped letting her on the sofa, but let him. She truly didn't know what to do with herself last night. She was very pacey and you could see her vibrating from within. But there were no other instances last night. Granted I couldn't let down my guard or relax either. Today, so far no instances. She walks up to him ears do their thing I tell her no. Looks at him for a second too long, again no. She doesn't like it, but today, so far, more controlled. She wanted to claim the landing on the stairs as hers and I escorted her down an had her sit. Took her for a long walk (well long for her), best walk we have had. So yes, I am giving it another go. Wish me luck.

View attachment 79479

She is a beauty! If she listens to you with a no, let them interact and watch their body language and correct as you see a change. You need to let them interact at some level. Also, if you have the ability, get someone to go with you and take walks together and be sure she stays next to or behind during the walk... No in front.

 

[Halibee]

Oh she still interacts with him. She's walking free around the house with a short lead on, just so I can grab her. She sleeps next to him an sniffs at him, it's just when the ears go or there's a muscle twitch she is on him. It's not a play thing nor is it a let's wrestle this out and see who wins, it's a going for the throat i'm gonna take you out thing. That's what worries me. So if the lead is on her I think she knows I am in control I did take the lead off and within 5 min she was on him and it took 2 of my sons to get her off. She never goes for the person, only him. She was put in her crate and that's where she was until she cooled off. Now the lead is back on and she's mopey, but walks freely around the house. I praise her just for being good and walking or sitting near him and not attacking. The downside I have noticed today is that she isn't playing with her toys. But I also stopped letting her on the couch yesterday. So it may be a lot of change at once for her. I don't know. Just trying to make it work.

 

[Donnam]

I'm so sorry you're having this problem with little Stella. I know how awful it is because I lived through a similar thing four years ago. It sounds like you are doing all the right things and have gotten good advice from other members here.

I've been debating about whether or not to tell my story. I decided to go ahead and tell it, because you might recognize something to help in your situation. And maybe someone down the line will read it when they have a similar problem. It's a long story so I'll try to be as brief as possible.

So, I had 3 dogs: a male boxer Rhett (10 yrs old), a female boxer Lily (6 yrs old), and a bulldog puppy Annie (1 yr old) and I babysat my sons boxer Henry (6 years old) quite often. Everybody got along fine. We'd have little tiffs once in a while over a toy or something, but Rhett never put up with any fighting. All he had to do was give a look and move in the direction of the tiff and everybody would shape up! Anyway, Rhett was diagnosed with an untreatable cancer and we had to put him down about 7 months later. A couple of months before Rhett died, we rescued a female boxer, Bella, who was at death's door. We got her healthy and spayed--everyone is getting along great. But then we lost Rhett and that's when the trouble started. Bella, who was feeling great now, started attacking Lily (boxer) for no apparent reason. Lily, who had never been aggressive at all fought back. And it wasn't a tiff--it was "to the death" fighting. After working with a trainer, we decided to find a new home for Bella, which we did, and she still lives there and her family loves her to pieces.

So, a couple of weeks after that, Lily and Annie started fighting the same way. I could tell that Lily was definitely the problem. She would look at Annie, and that look was saying "I know you're going to attack me." And then the fight would start. I hired two different trainers to come to my house to work with the girls--we did everything they told us to do and anything else we could think of and nothing ever helped. I have to say, it was the most awful, most stressful time in my life. Bad things happened. I got bit badly trying to break up a fight, had to get a tetanus shot which meant the doc had to report to animal control--it was a mess. I was having to keep the girls separated all the time, and we decided we just couldn't live that way--not good for Annie or Lily and not good for us.

I made the decision to find a new home for Annie and it just broke my heart. She had become one of those bullies that is a soulmate. I found a family who had a male bulldog and talked them into taking Annie on a trial basis. I think it was love at first sight for Tank. He adored Annie (she rules the roost I hear) and she moved in like she owned the place. I was so lucky to find such a good home for her, but I still miss her and regret having to let her go. I made the decision to give Annie up because Lily was here first for 5 years and because I knew Annie would adjust to a new home better than Lily would. And I didn't want to give Lily to someone with her issues. Annie's still in her new home and her family adores her. I'm still living with the guilt of giving her away!

I've always thought that nothing in the world could make me give up a dog. I mean, if I was in New Orleans during Katrina, I would be one of the people who would stay behind with my dogs. But living with two fighting dogs was impossible for me. I had a friend once who had 2 female dobermans who would try to kill each other--she lived keeping them separated for 12 years! I just couldn't do it.

There's actually more to this story, but I'll omit the rest (that's the end of the bully part). I guess the things I wanted to point out is that sometimes it can be the other dog actually instigating the fight as Lily did. Also, losing a dog, especially the Alpha dog like Rhett, can radically effect the dynamics in the pack.

I hope you have good results with Stella--I do think it's possible. My heart goes out to you, I know how rough this is on you.