Lip smacking and jaw shaking

[nkjordan23]

Hello All,

I did a search, but didnt find much on this topic outside of tremors (which I am not sure this is). Grady, a 5.5 year hold OEB began having issues with lip smacking which would transition into a 1-2 min period of jaw shaking. He is conscious the entire time and doesnt appear to be in pain, or so i tell myself. I find that this only happens in restful states...either when hes falling asleep or waking up from a nap. Never during activity. This started around X-mas and he had blood work done this week which all came back great. We feed him Nature's Domain from Costco which is a 3.5 star food by dogadvisor standards.

I've learned a few things over the last week - Too much calcium, or toxic levels of vitamin D can contribute to this. He doesnt show this in his blood results though. I dont find him to be eating stuff outside that could contribute.

These episodes can happen once a day or not at all for a couple of days. He's eating/drinking/pooing regularly and shows no odd signs outside of this. Since this started, it hasnt gotten worse or better. The lip smacking generally leads into it and since we noticed, we have been giving him some yogurt. The stuff I read seems to claim it could be sugar related (I am skeptical of this).

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, did you find anything that worked or find out what was going on? I am tempted to still change his food since Diamond makes this and have learned of the issues they have. I was just disappointed to find that nothing showed up in his blood work that could have sparked a clue.

Again, I apologize if I missed this topic and it has already been covered. Just really hoping for some advice.

Lastly, I do have a video of this happened. Not sure if I can post something like that here though.

Thanks!

 

[bullmama]

I'm not sure, but this could be a petite mal seizure, [MENTION=572]Libra926[/MENTION] may be able to help you. Any chance you could post a video of it?


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[nkjordan23]

Here is a link to the video I just posted.....its about a minute long and he does it multiple times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkAc1q1p1E&feature=youtu.be

 

[2BullyMama]

I tagged Cheryl -- she will be able to give some insight.

 

[Manydogs]

@nkjordan23 I watched the video twice, and didn't see any shaking at all. I am no expert, but I have had seizure dogs.Of course, seizures can present in many forms. This looks like a dog who feels like he is going to vomit, or had indigestion. Have you tried giving him pepcid and see if that makes any difference? Since it is nothing major looking yet-that is the first thing that I would try-just as an elimination. Someone who is more knowledgeable will have more suggestions for you soon.

 

[nkjordan23]

@nkjordan23 I watched the video twice, and didn't see any shaking at all. I am no expert, but I have had seizure dogs.Of course, seizures can present in many forms. This looks like a dog who feels like he is going to vomit, or had indigestion. Have you tried giving him pepcid and see if that makes any difference? Since it is nothing major looking yet-that is the first thing that I would try-just as an elimination. Someone who is more knowledgeable will have more suggestions for you soon.

You didnt see the multiple jaw shakes/trembles? You can even hear it if you have the sound up...he does it probably 4-5 times and it follows a lip smack.

It doesnt look like a seizure, to me atleast, but there is something going on. Maybe 2-3 years ago, he would do something similar to what you were describing where he would lip smack, and start drooling which eventually led him to throw up foam.

He isnt getting to that point and instead has something sort of like a facial tremor.

 

[Manydogs]

I can hear his jaw sort of a pop sound when he closes his mouth-but still don't see any vibrating/shaking. I am assuming that you have checked all his teeth and gums to make sure there is not a problem there.Felt his jaw joints...... As I said-I haven't seen this as a seizure, but petit mal comes in many forms--- but there will be someone else who can help you more. @nkjordan23 I know the feeling of worry that you have.How long does this last when he does it-and how often-this will be asked.

 

[nkjordan23]

I can hear his jaw sort of a pop sound when he closes his mouth-but still don't see any vibrating/shaking. I am assuming that you have checked all his teeth and gums to make sure there is not a problem there.Felt his jaw joints...... As I said-I haven't seen this as a seizure, but petit mal comes in many forms--- but there will be someone else who can help you more. @nkjordan23 I know the feeling of worry that you have.How long does this last when he does it-and how often-this will be asked.

We went to the vet the first time (prior to blood work) and she checked everything and said he looked really good. His weight has been constant for 2-3 years and that hasnt changed. I do tend to feel his jaws when he does this, but obviously im no vet or doctor to make any assumptions. Nothing jumped out at me.

When he does this, it lasts anywhere from 1-3 minutes. Again, only in restful states or when hes tired. When I have seen it, its when i get home from work and have woken him up or very late in the evening when hes in and out of rest. Can go days without seeing it, but the most ive seen it is twice in one day. I know this doesnt mean he isnt doing it more when im not paying attention though.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Libra926]

This looks like a focal facial seizure. At first I was thinking it looks like something in his mouth...whether it be a loose tooth, abscess or piece of food. BUT what you describe and his history makes me think neurological.

All the stuff you said about starting in a relax state is spot on with neurological. Another thing to try is redirection. Usually if its a seizure....you wont be able to stop it. If it's something else neurological....redirection may help.

Here is a video of my guy, Vegas. He was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy when he was 10 months old. When he was 5 he was diagnosed with the possibility of another type of neurological disorder that takes place in the same area of the brain that gives people Parkinson's. His Neurologist thinks this might be the cause of the "bubblegum fit" as some call it.


First off.....I've never shown this video before. I'm completely embarrassed about the state of my house. Usually if I'm taking a video...I make sure the cushions are on the couch, blankets are folded and drool rags are picked up. But....you can't predict when one of these will hit so when it did I just picked my camera up.


MVI 9553 - YouTube

 

[nkjordan23]

First off....Vegas is adorable. Could not help but smile. You had no reason to be embarrassed either...if anyone is able to look at anything other than his face, there is something wrong with them! Last, thanks for your input.

I kind of understand where you are going with this. I guess my questions for you are:

1) Over the years, has Vegas' condition progressed? Do you see it more frequent as he got older or has it leveled off?

2) When he is redirected, is it gone for good until the next episode? How often do you see this happen? Also, if you didnt redirect him, how long would he continue?

I know I am going to ask more questions so I apologize in advance!

 

[Manydogs]

@nkjordan23 I am sooo sorry that I gave you the wrong information. I must apologize, as this was a seizure that I have NOT experienced(so far...) I should have not even commented. So happy that someone could help you. [MENTION=572]Libra926[/MENTION]

 

[Libra926]

@nkjordan23 I am sooo sorry that I gave you the wrong information. I must apologize, as this was a seizure that I have NOT experienced(so far...) I should have not even commented. So happy that someone could help you. @<u><a href="http://www.englishbulldognews.com/forums/member.php?u=572" target="_blank">Libra926</a></u>

Lynn, your experience is just as important to share as mine. I watched the video while still in bed...with my volume off. I immediately though "something in mouth". After I pulled my lazy butt out of bed and completely read the posts....I thought different. Only because of the history. Never be sorry for sharing your experience...that is what this site is about. My experience and advice could very well be wrong.

First off....Vegas is adorable. Could not help but smile. You had no reason to be embarrassed either...if anyone is able to look at anything other than his face, there is something wrong with them! Last, thanks for your input.

I kind of understand where you are going with this. I guess my questions for you are:

1) Over the years, has Vegas' condition progressed? Do you see it more frequent as he got older or has it leveled off? Yes and no. When Vegas was first diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy....he was having cluster seizures. Now he very rarely has more than one. Two years ago he had 12 grand mals in 24 hours. Then the licking fits started. They would happen up to 16 times a day and last for hours. I was an emotional wreck. Now they happen several times a week.

2) When he is redirected, is it gone for good until the next episode? How often do you see this happen? Also, if you didnt redirect him, how long would he continue? It's gone usually as soon as we show him the ball. Often when they hit, we find Vegas in a corner crying (like in the video) Sometimes they happen more than once during the night. We have this treat ball that we fill with goodies. We originally used it to help him focus during the post ictal stages of a grand mal. We found that they help during these also. But...Vegas is very very smart. He knows how to get a ball when he truly doesnt need one. Take a look at this video. This is clearly a fake episode.

True:

Fake:

I know I am going to ask more questions so I apologize in advance!

Please don't apologize. This is one thing I'm good at...helping others understand what I'm going thru and how I cope with it. Here is a story we wrote a few years ago. It's a little bit of a read, but it gives you some insight into Vegas's life.

Special Needs Bulldogs Forum - Bulldog spotlight: TheVegasShow

 

[nkjordan23]

[MENTION=8741]Manydogs[/MENTION] - No need to apologize. I know everyone is here to help!

Thanks for the explanation and the great videos. So interesting to see the differences and similarities in some of these conditions.

Something odd I just noticed not more than than 10 min ago. Grady yawned and the jaw tremble happened again. However, it was only one time. What I wonder is if you put the restful stage part of this to the side, and you focus on only yawning (where this occurs frequently), what does that say?

I started searching for jaw trembling after yawning and there are tons of videos of dogs doing this. Some of them actually look exactly like my dogs condition. Sadly, their videos are asking the same question.

This one is spot on the same - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf6kInR7zOE

 

[Manydogs]

Thanks for your understanding! I actually could see the jaw vibrate in the beagle video. Seems like no one has the real answer-so it seems that it would be neurological. You could try distracting him, as [MENTION=572]Libra926[/MENTION] suggests, and see if it helps him.

 

[Libra926]

They say that yawning is a way to get increased oxygen to the brain. Another point for something neurological.