Grain Free and Heart Disease...

Coach

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I took Herschel to the vet today for his yearly and a skin booger. I mentioned that even after backing Herschel down to 3/4 cup of food that he has gained weight (He's 82 pounds at 6 years). She asked what, when and how much food. We feed him Fromm 1 time a day. He gets Turkey for the usual good boy stuff. She says to feed him more often to speed up his metabolism and then drops the bomb that we may want to do some research on grain free diets and heart disease. She offers a quick explanation, which made sense, doesn't try to sell me anything, which makes me think she wasn't blowing smoke. I've read on it some since this morning but it's in the very early stages of studies. Anybody have an opinion on this?
 

oscarmayer

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Yep...she's the one that needs to do research instead of following the lead of the Food manufacturers that she probably sells right there in her office. IMO, Big Pet Food is lying to Vets and Vet schools and the general public in an effort to turn pet owners away from quality foods. The studies are way too young to draw ANY meaningful conclusions. What's behind this behavior? MONEY, and lots of it. What they are doing is criminal!
 

helsonwheels

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[MENTION=7451]Coach[/MENTION], I agree with Chip. Just I believe it’s more that Vets already know and in on it with all the big pet food companies like Purina, Science Hills or Royal Canin...... They’re all holding hands. Put it this way, the more you feed them brands to your dog, the MORE visits you’ll be doing to the Vets. All about MONEY! Here’s a great link for you to read.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_focusing_on_protein_in_the_diet
 

Dollys Owner

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Beet pulp seems to be a bad culprit in causing taurine deficiency and it's better if your dog food doesn't have it.If you're worried, throw a can of sardines or some herring weekly to your dog and/or look for a dog food with added taurine.
 

Manydogs

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I feed all my dogs grain free. I also buy sardines and give them some once or twice a week. To them it is a treat, and they love them! That will solve the problem, if you are worried [MENTION=7451]Coach[/MENTION]
 

helsonwheels

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I feed all my dogs grain free. I also buy sardines and give them some once or twice a week. To them it is a treat, and they love them! That will solve the problem, if you are worried [MENTION=7451]Coach[/MENTION]

Mine eat raw n I still give them sardines. I also add a teaspoon of hemp oil :yes:
 

Dollys Owner

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Mine eat raw n I still give them sardines. I also add a teaspoon of hemp oil :yes:

Good article here on hemp seed oil https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/hemp-for-dogs-should-you-use-it/

It mentions not feeding hemp seed oil if your dog is on chicken and turkey but I'm not sure since factory farm poultry nowadays are much different in their omega 3 and omega 6 profile compared to free range poultry in the past. To be safe I feed flax seed oil if I'm giving turkey, and hemp seed oil if I'm feeding anything else ( if I give any oil at all ) .
 

2BullyMama

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Agreed!! There is an article from Dr. Becker .. I’ll find and post here—- but as others have posted, if you feed a high quality kibble the taurine is already added in and as others have posted, a can of sardines a week covers it!


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Coach

Coach

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Thanks everyone! Herschel won't eat fish but we'll figure something out.
 

Lalaloopsie

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Thanks everyone! Herschel won't eat fish but we'll figure something out.

Dark turkey meat is very good source of taurine, even more than sardines. Some sources recommend even adding Taurine nutritional supplements for dogs - 1 gram per day per every 40 pounds of dogs weight. They say it is very safe supplement.
 

2BullyMama

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Dark turkey meat is very good source of taurine, even more than sardines. Some sources recommend even adding Taurine nutritional supplements for dogs - 1 gram per day per every 40 pounds of dogs weight. They say it is very safe supplement.

Awesome on the dark turkey... now I have two options to give people being scared by this nonsense


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helsonwheels

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Dark turkey meat is very good source of taurine, even more than sardines. Some sources recommend even adding Taurine nutritional supplements for dogs - 1 gram per day per every 40 pounds of dogs weight. They say it is very safe supplement.

Cool!
 

helsonwheels

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Good article here on hemp seed oil https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/hemp-for-dogs-should-you-use-it/

It mentions not feeding hemp seed oil if your dog is on chicken and turkey but I'm not sure since factory farm poultry nowadays are much different in their omega 3 and omega 6 profile compared to free range poultry in the past. To be safe I feed flax seed oil if I'm giving turkey, and hemp seed oil if I'm feeding anything else ( if I give any oil at all ) .

I adulterant their protein so they don’t eat the same old year long n end up having allergies. The trick is to alternate their protein every 3months as pups so their system gets use to all produce/protein. Right now they’re on bison, beef, horse n organs etc. They do eat poultry as neither have issues with it. I will read up on this for sure. Interesting. Steve Brown does have a book out that looks intriguing. Thanks!
 

Lalaloopsie

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Beet pulp seems to be a bad culprit in causing taurine deficiency and it's better if your dog food doesn't have it.If you're worried, throw a can of sardines or some herring weekly to your dog and/or look for a dog food with added taurine.

My theory after reading what is available on this question is that problem with grain-free food is caused by following reasons. Those dog food producers wanted to replace grains with beans and legumes to make food 1) free of gluten and low in carbs 2) higher in protein. By doing so they could also reduce meat content, because beans and legumes are high in protein, but cheaper than meat. As a result, they made food with necessary amount of protein and low in carb. But there are 2 problems with beans. First, their protein is not so easily digestible as meat is (it’s plant protein and it needs long Gastrointestinal tract to be fully digested, and we know dogs as carnivores have very short GI tract). Second, plant proteins are not so perfect as eggs and meat in amino acid spectrum, less taurine, cysteine, methionine etc). Besides, many beans and legumes contain so called anti nutrients, physical acid and lectins, which reduce absorption and digestion of many important nutrients. That’s why you should soak beans for a night before cooking or even better sprout them
So, my theory is that this dog food because of high bean/legumes content while having seemingly high protein content, in fact, was deficient in amino acids because bigger proportion of total protein amount came from beans, not meat (it’s much cheaper!) and as a result of low bioavailability of this protein and anti nutrients which interfered with absorption of other vitamins or micro elements.
So, DCM in those poor dogs was a result of malnutrition. And poor business strategies. Producers of grain free food were too greedy and couldn’t resist temptation of reducing costs of food replacing meat protein with beans/legumes protein, because, I’m sure, no one checked exact ratio of meat/ bean protein, only total protein content.
 

2BullyMama

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My theory after reading what is available on this question is that problem with grain-free food is caused by following reasons. Those dog food producers wanted to replace grains with beans and legumes to make food 1) free of gluten and low in carbs 2) higher in protein. By doing so they could also reduce meat content, because beans and legumes are high in protein, but cheaper than meat. As a result, they made food with necessary amount of protein and low in carb. But there are 2 problems with beans. First, their protein is not so easily digestible as meat is (it’s plant protein and it needs long Gastrointestinal tract to be fully digested, and we know dogs as carnivores have very short GI tract). Second, plant proteins are not so perfect as eggs and meat in amino acid spectrum, less taurine, cysteine, methionine etc). Besides, many beans and legumes contain so called anti nutrients, physical acid and lectins, which reduce absorption and digestion of many important nutrients. That’s why you should soak beans for a night before cooking or even better sprout them
So, my theory is that this dog food because of high bean/legumes content while having seemingly high protein content, in fact, was deficient in amino acids because bigger proportion of total protein amount came from beans, not meat (it’s much cheaper!) and as a result of low bioavailability of this protein and anti nutrients which interfered with absorption of other vitamins or micro elements.
So, DCM in those poor dogs was a result of malnutrition. And poor business strategies. Producers of grain free food were too greedy and couldn’t resist temptation of reducing costs of food replacing meat protein with beans/legumes protein, because, I’m sure, no one checked exact ratio of meat/ bean protein, only total protein content.

So, would the added taurine the high quality kibbles place in the ingredients be enough to balance ??


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