Epidrual injections of steroids for spinal arthritis

TooTooMommy

Active member
Jun 17, 2016
192
51
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USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Meaty, Sophie, & sometimes fosters
Hello everybully :)

Ugh, we are struggling A LOT with treatment options for our precious, 8-year-old Sophie. We already
knew she has a subluxating patella (floating kneecap), plus, since she's almost 8 (WHERE did EIGHT years go ! ? ! !?...)
we assume she has general arthritis.

In the last few months, we notice her limping is increasing. Vet said when she walks, she's 'hip walking", meaning---
she isn't bending either back leg at all. Poor baby, no WONDER! He SUSPECTED bilateral ACL tears, so he sedated her to do a full, manual exam.


Before I continue, I want to clarify that she does NOT show ANY signs of not enjoying life anymore----this is obviously
our most important issue!!! The thing that kills me is that even though she still enjoys ALL the same things she always has, I've read that bulldogs are known to be very stoic when in pain, so how do we really KNOW if she's miserable? :(




We've done lots of reading about this, and talked to 2 vets about quality of life (i.e.....signs of when it it's time to put them to sleep) before because of our precious 10-year-old Meaty's arthritis issues.



He was surprised to find that she does NOT have bilateral ACL tears; but said "she has a PARTIAL tear in one leg". He also Xrayed her and discovered severe arthritis in her lower spinal vertebrae. She's already
on Gapapentin and Vetrprofen twice / day for a long time, and he started her on Tramadol 2 / day.

He wants us to consider Adequan injections, which she's had in the past, but we honestly can't TELL if they helped...ugh!
Sidenote--our sweet, 10-year-old Meaty also has severe arth. in his lower spine, and MUCH WORSE in both elbows. :(
has also had many Adequan injections in the past, and--once again---we honestly cannot tell if they helped. Meaty's on LOTS of meds, and we believe he's comfortable, but I don't want to get toooo off of my topic of Sophie.

If not Adequan, he wants us to consider spinal epidural injections of steroids. He can't give us an exact number required, because it depend on her response. He says he's seen SOME dogs do well for MONTHS after one injection, and others, not so much. Of COURSE we want her pain relieved; however,
the anesthesia for these is more than just "twilight" sedation. I forgot to ask if it's as deep as GENERAL anesthesia; but I hope not! I fully trust our wonder-bull vets, and they DO know alllllll the special risks with bulldogs, so it's not that.


We also don't LOVE the thought of steroids, since we all know they come with problems of their own....but, her not being in PAIN is the most important!
Also, I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming repeated anesthesia for an 8-year-old is a lot harder on their bodies. Who knows how MANY of these epidurals she'd need? Ugh.....



I'd appreciate your thoughts, advice, experiences, etc. ((( HUGS ))) to you and your precious babies!!



Silly sidenote....I tried to fix my misspelleing of EPIDURAL in my subject line, but I don't think that's possi-bull. Am I
wrong?
 
Last edited:

Cbrugs

Well-known member
Community Veteran
Dec 9, 2016
5,003
184
Seattle, WA
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Bulldog(s) Names
King Louie, Jax (French Bulldog) and Ella Mae
I have no experience with this specific issue but my French Bulldog has IVDD and has undergone 3 surgeries for herniated discs. I have been taking him for acupuncture and laser therapy on a monthly basis. Not sure if this would be an option for you. I also give CBD oil twice a day which is supposed to be good for inflammation and pain. And then I also give glucosamine supplements in the form of green lipped mussel powder, liquid glucosamine and bone broth which are supposed to be good for joints.
 

helsonwheels

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
11,788
323
Alberta
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Nyala, Jake (R.I.P. Duke)
Wow, a load to absorb. Only a couple things I can add if it was my dogs, definitely would give them like mentioned CBD oil. Also I would massage on regular basis with 3oz of coconut oil (clear one) and these following oils. Shake vigorously and massage morning, afternoon n before bed...Mix essential oils together in an Amber or dark blue glass bottle.

44 drops lavender
19 drops frankincense
31 drops helichrysum
6 drops Roman chamomile
 

Lalaloopsie

New member
Apr 18, 2016
1,628
33
Cape Town, SA
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Belarus
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Tank
I think they mean anaesthesia with shot which knocks out for 15 min, which is enough for procedure. No intubation anaesthesia.
For steroid shots - you won’t know until you try. But I also vote for CBD oil first, or, even if you stay in one of more liberal states, medical marijuana if it is allowed in your state.
 

ddnene

EBN's SWEETHEART aka our little GOOB
Staff member
Jun 19, 2013
14,439
1,052
Nashville, Tennessee
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Willow (2015) Walter (2014) Winston (2012-13) Wellie (2012-13) Bella (2007-13)
My boxer had severe arthritis and a bone spur in her neck... we did the adequate injections, and they seemed to work for awhile.
I agree w/the others... try the laser therapy, CBD oil and the acupuncture... it sure couldn't hurt to give that a go.

ON a side note, I get steroid injections in my knee and in fact I had one yesterday... I have arthritis in my knees and hip. I'm pretty active... I workout at the least 5 times a week, and after getting the arthritis diagnosis I knew that the BEST thing for me was to keep as mobile as possible. IMO they work... I can keep up w/my workouts, and I feel pretty good. I try to stretch them out as long as possible, so I can go every 3 months but I pushed it 6 months this time.
 

helsonwheels

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
11,788
323
Alberta
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Nyala, Jake (R.I.P. Duke)
[MENTION=9157]ddnene[/MENTION], my mom is 85yrs young going on 50. She is healthy, has all her head n walks freely with no canes etc. She even still drives. She too also has a knee issue like you. She use to get her shots on regular basis or she can’t walk around as much and she would get really mad at herself cause she knows it’s part of aging. I told her steroids is harsh on a system and explained to her what it can do to her organs etc etc. She started steroid shots 2years ago and about a year ago I started to sent her Japanese Mint Oil. She has now cut 1/2 her shots cause she said the mint oil works wonderfully. She puts it straight on her knee n under 3x a day. Since she doesn’t work she doesn’t care about the smell. I’ve been also sending her premixed oils cause she’s the type that can’t sit down (that’s where I get it from) but with her age she has no choice. She puts her premix on her hips n lower back n she’s off for her day. Just a thought :)
 

Manydogs

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Community Veteran
May 2, 2013
13,174
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Tennessee
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U.S.A.
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Maudee,Martha,Lizzie,Bro.Mini
I would try all the above suggestions, before the injections. I had them, and they did not help me a bit, but that's me.
 

ddnene

EBN's SWEETHEART aka our little GOOB
Staff member
Jun 19, 2013
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Nashville, Tennessee
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Willow (2015) Walter (2014) Winston (2012-13) Wellie (2012-13) Bella (2007-13)
@ddnene, my mom is 85yrs young going on 50. She is healthy, has all her head n walks freely with no canes etc. She even still drives. She too also has a knee issue like you. She use to get her shots on regular basis or she can’t walk around as much and she would get really mad at herself cause she knows it’s part of aging. I told her steroids is harsh on a system and explained to her what it can do to her organs etc etc. She started steroid shots 2years ago and about a year ago I started to sent her Japanese Mint Oil. She has now cut 1/2 her shots cause she said the mint oil works wonderfully. She puts it straight on her knee n under 3x a day. Since she doesn’t work she doesn’t care about the smell. I’ve been also sending her premixed oils cause she’s the type that can’t sit down (that’s where I get it from) but with her age she has no choice. She puts her premix on her hips n lower back n she’s off for her day. Just a thought :)

Helene, I DID buy an essential oils starter kit... I have slowly been using the oils. Since I'm not familiar w/them yet, I'm not going too crazy... can I get the Japanese Mint Oil here in the states? I don't even know if I have mint oil in my kit... I will have to check it out.
 

helsonwheels

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
11,788
323
Alberta
Country
Canada
Bulldog(s) Names
Nyala, Jake (R.I.P. Duke)
Helene, I DID buy an essential oils starter kit... I have slowly been using the oils. Since I'm not familiar w/them yet, I'm not going too crazy... can I get the Japanese Mint Oil here in the states? I don't even know if I have mint oil in my kit... I will have to check it out.

I send her Hagina Japanese Mint. I’m not sure if you order online. If not get another quality high end brand. Again make sure it has a bin/bar code ON the bottle n not just the box. When someone puts a B.C. on the bottle it means company can track their bottles so meaning they won’t make a crappy oil. Rule for any EO. I don’t see why they don’t sell it in the US.

https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=hagina+ja...008129&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_6kq8jo4lq3_e
 

helsonwheels

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
11,788
323
Alberta
Country
Canada
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Nyala, Jake (R.I.P. Duke)
[MENTION=9157]ddnene[/MENTION]. Spoke to my mom a bit ago and yesterday she said it was her check up and she told her doctor she’s been using Japanese mint oil. He described the bottle, little red cap, tall silver bottle before she mentioned it and he said keep using it as she has no swelling and her bump behind her knee has gone . Go figure he knew the brand. :)
******************
If I don’t answer you it’s cause I’m working in the kitchen today :)
 

2BullyMama

I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog?
Staff member
Community Veteran
Jul 28, 2011
47,150
2,024
Gilbertsville, PA
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Lambeau, Chelios (Frenchie), Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014)
Hello everybully :)

Ugh, we are struggling A LOT with treatment options for our precious, 8-year-old Sophie. We already
knew she has a subluxating patella (floating kneecap), plus, since she's almost 8 (WHERE did EIGHT years go ! ? ! !?...)
we assume she has general arthritis.

In the last few months, we notice her limping is increasing. Vet said when she walks, she's 'hip walking", meaning---
she isn't bending either back leg at all. Poor baby, no WONDER! He SUSPECTED bilateral ACL tears, so he sedated her to do a full, manual exam.


Before I continue, I want to clarify that she does NOT show ANY signs of not enjoying life anymore----this is obviously
our most important issue!!! The thing that kills me is that even though she still enjoys ALL the same things she always has, I've read that bulldogs are known to be very stoic when in pain, so how do we really KNOW if she's miserable? :(




We've done lots of reading about this, and talked to 2 vets about quality of life (i.e.....signs of when it it's time to put them to sleep) before because of our precious 10-year-old Meaty's arthritis issues.



He was surprised to find that she does NOT have bilateral ACL tears; but said "she has a PARTIAL tear in one leg". He also Xrayed her and discovered severe arthritis in her lower spinal vertebrae. She's already
on Gapapentin and Vetrprofen twice / day for a long time, and he started her on Tramadol 2 / day.

He wants us to consider Adequan injections, which she's had in the past, but we honestly can't TELL if they helped...ugh!
Sidenote--our sweet, 10-year-old Meaty also has severe arth. in his lower spine, and MUCH WORSE in both elbows. :(
has also had many Adequan injections in the past, and--once again---we honestly cannot tell if they helped. Meaty's on LOTS of meds, and we believe he's comfortable, but I don't want to get toooo off of my topic of Sophie.

If not Adequan, he wants us to consider spinal epidural injections of steroids. He can't give us an exact number required, because it depend on her response. He says he's seen SOME dogs do well for MONTHS after one injection, and others, not so much. Of COURSE we want her pain relieved; however,
the anesthesia for these is more than just "twilight" sedation. I forgot to ask if it's as deep as GENERAL anesthesia; but I hope not! I fully trust our wonder-bull vets, and they DO know alllllll the special risks with bulldogs, so it's not that.


We also don't LOVE the thought of steroids, since we all know they come with problems of their own....but, her not being in PAIN is the most important!
Also, I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming repeated anesthesia for an 8-year-old is a lot harder on their bodies. Who knows how MANY of these epidurals she'd need? Ugh.....



I'd appreciate your thoughts, advice, experiences, etc. ((( HUGS ))) to you and your precious babies!!



Silly sidenote....I tried to fix my misspelleing of EPIDURAL in my subject line, but I don't think that's possi-bull. Am I
wrong?

I have no experience with this specific issue but my French Bulldog has IVDD and has undergone 3 surgeries for herniated discs. I have been taking him for acupuncture and laser therapy on a monthly basis. Not sure if this would be an option for you. I also give CBD oil twice a day which is supposed to be good for inflammation and pain. And then I also give glucosamine supplements in the form of green lipped mussel powder, liquid glucosamine and bone broth which are supposed to be good for joints.



I agree... try the laser and CBD before injections... also, can they up the Gabeptein dose?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Lalaloopsie

New member
Apr 18, 2016
1,628
33
Cape Town, SA
Country
Belarus
Bulldog(s) Names
Tank
@ddnene, my mom is 85yrs young going on 50. She is healthy, has all her head n walks freely with no canes etc. She even still drives. She too also has a knee issue like you. She use to get her shots on regular basis or she can’t walk around as much and she would get really mad at herself cause she knows it’s part of aging. I told her steroids is harsh on a system and explained to her what it can do to her organs etc etc. She started steroid shots 2years ago and about a year ago I started to sent her Japanese Mint Oil. She has now cut 1/2 her shots cause she said the mint oil works wonderfully. She puts it straight on her knee n under 3x a day. Since she doesn’t work she doesn’t care about the smell. I’ve been also sending her premixed oils cause she’s the type that can’t sit down (that’s where I get it from) but with her age she has no choice. She puts her premix on her hips n lower back n she’s off for her day. Just a thought :)

Your Mom must be a very interesting ol’lady:sneaky2:especially when you two are together I’m sure you are a handful and up to all kinds of mischief:evil:
 

helsonwheels

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
11,788
323
Alberta
Country
Canada
Bulldog(s) Names
Nyala, Jake (R.I.P. Duke)
Your Mom must be a very interesting ol’lady:sneaky2:especially when you two are together I’m sure you are a handful and up to all kinds of mischief:evil:

:hijacked::offtopic: SORRY

I’m the quiet one! Imagine my other 3 siblings lolll. My mom raised us to “speak our mind”. Funny story..When I worked in the education field (20yrs) administrated, I had to deal with some spoil brats teens n parents would allllllways take their brats side. My last 5years, I had enough with these parents as basically it’s not the child’s fault as it’s the parents that raises them. Hey like dogs :) I had this 16yr old came in with his mom on registration day in our adult centre, tells her mom...exact words and it’s brainwashed in my brain to this day!! He said “ you Fuken stay here in line and I’m going to Macdonalds. I’ll be back later”! OMG my mouth dropped as she simply said “ok dear” Holysh*t I freaked out. In front of maybe 300 students n parents I raised my voice said...” HEY YOU! Come here. If that’s how you talk to your mother, YOU can get the hell out of my school. There’s no room for rude kids in this school. Goodbye n good luck cause you’ll need it.” Then mom comes up to me saying I couldn’t do that. Told her we don’t need crap like your son’s mouth that’s going to end up disrespecting our teachers like he does with you. Thank you goodbye. She reported me. I did go to the head office and had NO clue I had a note written in my file from waaaaay back, saying, If Helene said something cause there’s a reason. I have that in my file? Big boss said..yes. So I told her what happened n she told me to go away. Lol..
 

Lalaloopsie

New member
Apr 18, 2016
1,628
33
Cape Town, SA
Country
Belarus
Bulldog(s) Names
Tank
Yeah, kids nowadays are more and more arrogant, i think it’s a nightmare to work in education now. And parents enable them, because psychology says kids must be happy, all the way, at all times, no matter what, love them unconditionally etc. I just cannot understand when and how they are supposed to pass this magic point when they aren’t kiddos anymore and no one is going to provide them happiness and unconditional love and money for free - nor employer, neither partner or the rest of the world. But psychology says nothing about it.
 

paw7004

Member
Aug 30, 2012
100
5
Virginia
Bulldog(s) Names
Porkchop
Where do you get CBD oil? Is it oral or topical? If oral, are there instructions on how much to give? My Porkchop, 8 yrs old, has bone spurs in his back which the vet says has created a neurological issue affecting control of his right hind leg. He’s on carprofen, Movoflex and recently Petandim, an herbal supplement. He does seem to be more mobile since adding Petandim. But I have heard a lot about CBD oil being effective in pain management. There are so many brands on the internet that I am hesitant to order any without someone’s recommendation. Would appreciate any input.
 

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