URGENT!!! Please help I dont want to lose my baby!

cali~jenn · May 8, 2013

Oh I also wanted to say, as for getting him to take his treats nice... With miila, who drew blood over ice cubes, I just enforce the sit/stay position and when giving the treat repeat take it nice the whole time. If he lunges towards then pull back repeating take it nice. I also find turning my hand toward me more, so the back of my hand is what they get first, slows them down. They know they have to reach around your and to take it, rather than just steal out of our hand quickly. If that makes any sense anyhow. Lol

LaurenA · May 8, 2013

Hey there! You've already gotten some great advice!
Just wondering if you have tried any sort if formal training? I just started with Rook, he's around 18 months, and he was getting more rebellious, super excitable, and just plain ignores me like the stubborn bully he is. We've only been to a few classes but have learned a lot about behavior and self control. I learned a lot if the things I was doing was inadvertently amping him up. I don't know if it would work for you, but if you are unsure of his behavior it might not hurt. It's been super positive for us, and it's been a huge help for someone to observe Rook's nuttiness, and then show me exactly how to redirect and reward the positive behavior. It's been great bonding time for us too.

anatess · May 9, 2013

cali~jenn said:
Oh I also wanted to say, as for getting him to take his treats nice... With miila, who drew blood over ice cubes, I just enforce the sit/stay position and when giving the treat repeat take it nice the whole time. If he lunges towards then pull back repeating take it nice. I also find turning my hand toward me more, so the back of my hand is what they get first, slows them down. They know they have to reach around your and to take it, rather than just steal out of our hand quickly. If that makes any sense anyhow. Lol

This is great advice. I did mine a little differently.

I start with a big treat, I would hold it in my hand with less than half of it sticking out. The dog would usually quickly take one end and try to pull it out of my hand. I say No, and hold on to the treat. Yes, there's a chance that he will put his teeth on my hand. They don't usually bite. They'll realize it's my hand and not the treat and stop. This needs confidence and not react/get scared about his teeth on my hand. So then, when he is not trying to pull it anymore, then I can let go of the treat. I repeat this a few more times. It usually doesn't take long for them to learn this, especially those that are food motivated. This has worked for me until I can give the dog kibble off the palm of my hand without them lunging at the food.

Bullyproof · May 9, 2013

Everyone has great ideas and points for you and I would work them all into your training. The shaking definitely sounds like fear. The bite sounds like fear aggression as well. He may be great with you 2, bit it doesn't sound like he is comfortable around other people or he is "human selective. A bite is a bite, regardless and you need to take it seriously. Whether its separation anxiety or something to do with the shower or running water, there is a trigger. I have been rehabbing a fear aggressive dog for 5 1/2 weeks now. I work on resetting her triggers all the time and I try to incorporate it with everything we do.

Here is an exercise the 3 of you can do. One person in the shower, the other with your bully. The person with the bully, works on keeping him calm while the other is in the shower. Use your basic obedience. Redirect him not to fixate that someone is in the shower. Make it a game with him. Use some high value treats or a toy. Remember not to treat him unless he complies and whoever is working with him MUST remain calm. When he starts to fixate, say his name so he responds and looks at who is working with him, if he redirects, treat him or play. If he continues to fixate, turn off the shower and start again. Of course if only one person is home, you need to keep yourself safe and crate him.

Here's an example of what I do with Kiah. She is very weary of strangers and people who get close to me. I like to bring her out on the porch and hang out with me. I live in an apt so I have people all around and loud kids who run around. So I have a friend come over who doesn't know Kiah and I have them slowly walk up my sidewalk. The second she starts to fixate I call her name, the proper response is that she looks at me and gets treated. If she doesn't respond, my friend walks back around the corner and we start again. Last week we got to the point where my friend was 10 feet away from her before she charged. I know it doesn't sound like much, but if you go read my intro post you'll see how far she has come in a small amount of time.

My advice to you is to see if he acts this way in other situations. Is it just running water? Does he get whiney when you leave? If he does how long does it last?

We are all here to help in whatever way we can. Remember to stay calm, bullies are masters at reading our emotions and will redirect them back at us.

Petra · May 9, 2013

I sooo feel with you reading this, I've been in a similar situation myself and I know how scary it is :*(

We rescued a grown male and female bulldog who had been spending the past 27 month in a small backyard with only bricks to sleep on. It didn't take long before the male started to bully me around, he would snap at me, push me into corners and stare me out and bark at me. I was so scared I was shaking

We had a dog psychologist working with our case and we ended up giving him our bulldog. He told me though that aggressiveness is one of the easiest things to fix

I have now visited them twice since we gave him up and his behavior is perfect, he is loving and sweet and shows no sign of aggression. So don't give up

I really recommend contacting a good dog trainer, talking to ours made me realize a lot, not only about my dogs but also about myself.

The reason we made the hard decision to give him away was based on many things. My husband was working away for weeks at the time and he was not our only dog. He had major fights with our other bulldog male and it all just got to much for me to sort out by myself. Also I know our dog trainer was madly in love with our dog

I'm sure you'll be able to turn things around

and as people before me have already said, make sure he is not in pain in any way. Bulldogs are tough, just cos he doesn't show any sign of discomfort doesn't mean he is not.

I know this isn't much help but know you are not alone

Rosie1989 · May 9, 2013

Thank you everyone so much I will keep you posted on his progress. I am aware it will take time but last night following all your advice I shut him in his crate when I showered and hand fed him and kept him on a lead following me all evening and he did not growl or show any grumpy-ness. He did cry for a while when he was shut in his crate but I just waited until he had relaxed to let him out. This morning he still didn't growl or get grumpy and I hand fed him again. Fingers crossed with some perseverance he will become a much happier pooch

Thanks again. I also have him booked in at the vets on Saturday, fingers crossed he is just stroppy and not unwell. Thanks again!

BrianW · May 9, 2013

I would also recommend contacting a good dog trainer/psychologist. Ours has made me realize that things that some people say and recommend (including a prior vet/some experts) may not be actually helping the issues and leading to more bad behaviors and issues. In the last month that we have worked with her, our issues have improved so dramatically and it has been so worth the money we have spent.

Vicaroo1000 · May 11, 2013

Rosie1989 said:
The problem with controlling his escalation points is that I am often out the room when the excitement starts, in the shower for example, and by the time I come out he is a quivering, foaming at the mouth, solid ball of excited muscle.

You must try to anticipate those situations that bring on this behavior and avoid them at all costs. When a pup is already foaming at the mouth, there's no way in hell you are going to be able to redirect them. Its already far, far too late. Set your pup up for success and with time and patience, THOSE moments will become her "habit" -- not the crazy ones. Does that make sense?

cali~jenn said:
Oh I also wanted to say, as for getting him to take his treats nice...

Awesome awesome advice here from everyone.

Too, if your boyfriend is already thinking of throwing in the towel, it's just going to be that much harder for you. Rehabilitation of a dog takes EVERYONE'S participation. Your pup knows that he's not "in it to win it", you know?

Vicaroo1000 · May 12, 2013

[MENTION=7710]Petra[/MENTION] - thank you for sharing your story. "Giving up" isn't easy but sometimes it is in fact the very best thing for the dog. Rehabilitation is a commitment and not every human is up to the task. There's no shame in that. I got Bo from rescue (as a puppy, mind you) because his new dog parents realized they were not equipped to manage a puppy. THANK GOD they contacted a rescue and didn't just sell him to the first jackass on Craigslist or something. It sounds like your trainer friend is THE perfect pawrent for that pup. Dogs want to be balanced. They don't want to stare, fight and scare their people. Your dog is happy now and isn't that what you wanted -- what we all want --- anyway? :2thumbs:

Edited to add - there's a dog here that's close to all our hearts that DIED because his people didn't give up as soon as they should have. Everyone knows exactly who I am talking about too.

Thank God for folks that see their own situation as clearly as you and give up FOR THE SAKE OF THE DOG.

Petra · May 12, 2013

Thank you [MENTION=2614]Vicaroo1000[/MENTION]

I've felt bad for giving him away, but I never gave up on "Frass" as I call him, I gave up on myself. I knew he could be an awesome friend for the right person with the right touch<3 I was just not that person:'( I miss him but as you said, the most important thing is that HE is happy:D No dog deserves to be given up on, there is always a way, no matter the issue, there is someone out there that IS the right person

I realize it might take time to find that special someone sometimes but for me there were never never never any other option, and there shouldn't be... to buy or rescue a dog is easy, it's the time and effort put in that is the hard part, and as I see it re-homing a dog must be ten billion times easier than putting your friend down:'( I just don't understand it and I never will.

Thank you again for making me feel better about a hard BUT right decision and congrats to Bo who found you and his forever home

bullmama · May 13, 2013

Rosie1989 said:
Thank you everyone so much I will keep you posted on his progress. I am aware it will take time but last night following all your advice I shut him in his crate when I showered and hand fed him and kept him on a lead following me all evening and he did not growl or show any grumpy-ness. He did cry for a while when he was shut in his crate but I just waited until he had relaxed to let him out. This morning he still didn't growl or get grumpy and I hand fed him again. Fingers crossed with some perseverance he will become a much happier pooch Thanks again. I also have him booked in at the vets on Saturday, fingers crossed he is just stroppy and not unwell. Thanks again!

This is great, how did the vet appt go on Saturday?

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

cali~jenn · May 13, 2013

Rosie1989 said:
Thank you everyone so much I will keep you posted on his progress. I am aware it will take time but last night following all your advice I shut him in his crate when I showered and hand fed him and kept him on a lead following me all evening and he did not growl or show any grumpy-ness. He did cry for a while when he was shut in his crate but I just waited until he had relaxed to let him out. This morning he still didn't growl or get grumpy and I hand fed him again. Fingers crossed with some perseverance he will become a much happier pooch Thanks again. I also have him booked in at the vets on Saturday, fingers crossed he is just stroppy and not unwell. Thanks again!

that is wonderful! Sounds like all this combined will help greatly if you see a change this quick. Remember.... They progress in steps and regress during the process. 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Just when you get confident that you have it figured out he will go back and discourage you some. Don't let it tho, this is just the process. Eventually he will get it and it will stick.

JAKEISGREAT · May 13, 2013

You are doing great. It will take time. They have to unlearn the bad and give in to the good behavior. Some are more stubborn, but like everything..the first steps are the hardest.

Rosie1989 · May 13, 2013

Thanks again everyone. We have had a lovely weekend with Vinnie, although he is still testing the water with bad behaviour but I think he feels alot more content with the increased leadership i am trying to give him. The vet took some blood and said they would be doing some tests for thyroid and other bits but did point out that although he is now nearly 1 and a half, because of his poor past experiences and pure size he still very much has a puppy brain. We have been making sure that we are always at least walking by his side ( he will never be a walk behind you kinda dog), and walking through doors and stuff before him. We have also decided to keep him off the sofa as we realized he was using this as a power spot, always making sure he was sat between me and my partner, and basically traipsing all over us as he pleased. We bought a new lead (the cesar milan choker training leashe) which has proved a complete godsend as he hates when it gates tight and has very quickly learned to walk calmly next to us. He has been so much calmer that my boyfriend actually said it has been a pleasure owning him

Still very early days but i can see that as long as we stay consistent we will succeed.

One slight question still, I am hand feeding him which is going well and he is no-longer snatching every bite, and been asking to do various things between each mouthful (sit, paw, lay down etc). I was also asking him to twizzle (turn around and sit down again), but he now does it whenever I am holding a treat. Its not an obsessive spin but more of a casual stroll in a circle. is this just because its a new 'trick' he has learnt or should i try to get him to stop doing it?

Thanks again!

cali~jenn · May 13, 2013

I see nothing wrong with the twizzle (what a cute name) but they can get confused and do repetition of what they think you want. Mii doesn't do many tricks but she sits pretty and high 5s as 2 separate things and she started automatically doing them together which was driving me crazy. I just separated the tricks apart some and it helped her get it. So long as he is working for his meal and doing what you want is key. Obviously it sounds like he is working hard for it. :lol: