Just switched my babies to raw!

[nikkiLazaro]

My babies have been having skin issues: dry skin and dandruff to the point where they're always scratching. They have quite a few scabs from the scratching and it's been going on for a while now I've tried medicated shampoos, oatmeal baths, switching their food and nothing worked! After reading about the benefits of a raw diet (allergies and just overall health), I just decided to go for it and made the switch last night.

I'm doing the BARF diet I believe, where you grind the meat as opposed to the prey model diet. They tend to swallow things whole so I don't wanna take any chances of them swallowing bones I started them on chicken and they seem to have taken it well.

Now my question(s): When starting, am I supposed to feed them only the chicken and nothing else for 2 weeks? Should I be adding anything like vegetables or supplements? I'm such a noob to the raw feeding, any help would be great!

 

[RiiSi]

How old are your bully's? If they've done growing in hight you should start with only one thing and chicken is just great. When you see that there is no unwanted reaction on chicken you add another protein source and. But if they're still growing in height plain chicken is not enough.

 

[anatess]

If you give him cuts bigger than his head, he won't be able to swallow it whole. But BARF is great too. Everything is completely dependent on how your dog reacts to the transition. If your dog is adjusting well (poops are regular, energy level is regular, skin condition is the same or improved), then you don't have to stick to just chicken for 2 weeks. You can start experimenting with other stuff a little bit at a time. Sticking with just chicken for 2 weeks just to be sure he is consistently doing good is also good. It's all up to you... balance over time - that's the ticket.

 

[nikkiLazaro]

How old are your bully's? If they've done growing in hight you should start with only one thing and chicken is just great. When you see that there is no unwanted reaction on chicken you add another protein source and. But if they're still growing in height plain chicken is not enough.

Mochi is 5 months and Koju is 11 months. Still pups. They seem to be doing well with just chicken so far. I wanna make sure they're getting all the nutrients they need, especially if they're still growing. What do you suggest are good things to add to the chicken?

 

[nikkiLazaro]

If you give him cuts bigger than his head, he won't be able to swallow it whole. But BARF is great too. Everything is completely dependent on how your dog reacts to the transition. If your dog is adjusting well (poops are regular, energy level is regular, skin condition is the same or improved), then you don't have to stick to just chicken for 2 weeks. You can start experimenting with other stuff a little bit at a time. Sticking with just chicken for 2 weeks just to be sure he is consistently doing good is also good. It's all up to you... balance over time - that's the ticket.

That's what I'm scared of. I don't wanna add too many things at once because I don't know how they'll react to it. So far they haven't had any bad reactions to the chicken I was thinking maybe in a few days if they're still doing well, I'll add a vegetable source. I also read that fish oil is good to put in their food. Would that be too sudden to add?

 

[RiiSi]

In my opinion the 5 months old pup is too young to be eating just chicken, eleven months old will be fine, but if he does fine you can add more variety in shorter time. Nutrients need to be balanced in shorter time than with pups than with adults. Adding just one veggie is not enough eather. Chicken has hardly any calsium in it and the pup will be deficient in a lot of nutrients. Have you considered a pre-made raw patties for the younger pup? Or get a good supplement to ensure the vitamins and nutrients.

 

[nikkiLazaro]

In my opinion the 5 months old pup is too young to be eating just chicken, eleven months old will be fine, but if he does fine you can add more variety in shorter time. Nutrients need to be balanced in shorter time than with pups than with adults. Adding just one veggie is not enough eather. Chicken has hardly any calsium in it and the pup will be deficient in a lot of nutrients. Have you considered a pre-made raw patties for the younger pup? Or get a good supplement to ensure the vitamins and nutrients.

Oh no! Don't want that to happen to the little one. Yea I think I'll go with the supplement. I was thinking about the pre-made raw patties, but it's just too expensive. It's cheaper to make it myself. Any recommendations on a good supplement? I'd like to get it today so I don't skimp out on her nutrients.

 

[RiiSi]

Get something that is especially for pup with all nutrients. You can also speed up the process of adding proteins and other ingredients in to their diet. Just do it one at the time so you know how they react to it.

 

[anatess]

Riisi has lots of experience in Raw feeding too but we disagree on the chicken.

Only chicken for the first 2 weeks is just fine for puppies. As a matter of fact, it is recommended for weaning pups as they build strength in their teeth and jaws. Only chicken for a month during the transition is fine too as long as you feed the entire chicken complete with heads, feet, giblets, gizzards, heart and liver. The calcium content of chicken bone is just fine.

I go by the Prey Model philosophy so if you're feeding the entire chicken, you don't need veggies. So introducing veggies at this point has a higher risk to benefit ratio because you will be introducing carbs. Introducing fish is a better alternative. Not just fish oil. The entire fish - complete with fish bones. But as I've said previously, just observe your dog's condition - poop, skin, energy level. If everything is perfect, you don't need to wait out the 2 weeks to introduce another food item.

The main reason for going raw is so that you can provide your dog with biologically appropriate whole food nutrition. Sticking with whole foods without chemical additives is best unless your dog exhibits nutritional deficiencies. Whole Prey (including chicken) has all the nutrition a dog needs without needing artificial chemical supplementation. If you can't feed whole prey (it might not be easy to find organs and heads and feet in grocery stores) then supplementing with whole "chewed up" (or pureed or cooked) veggies is ideal - still no chemical additives. The only difference between puppies and adults is the amount you feed - puppies need more food (hence more calories, more calcium and phosphorous, etc) in relation to their body weight than their adult counterparts. But of course, chemical additives do have the benefit of making us feel better about what we're feeding - just a dash of confidence - even if the dog is not exhibiting health issues. And that's completely okay. In this case, a "complete" daily vitamin is better than targetted supplements.

This shouldn't have to be more complicated than it is. Making it too complicated also makes it too confusing.

Hope this helps.

 

[RiiSi]

[MENTION=2874]anatess[/MENTION] You're right....we disagree about the chicken....

 

[anatess]

@anatess You're right....we disagree about the chicken....

Just in case it matters... most Prey Model Raw feeders recommend chicken for the first month of transition for all dogs including weaning puppies. Here and here are links with success stories. If you think about it - what you're saying is chicken bone doesn't have enough calcium. If that's the case, then feed more chicken bone to increase calcium. But then, puppies don't just need more calcium - they need more of everything - calories included. That's why Prey Model recommends feeding a puppy 3% of his expected ADULT body weight and giving them edible bones for chew toys. You know you're feeding too much calcium because the poop turns chalky.

But yes, this is PMR not BARF. Lots of differing ideologies there. Who is right? Everybody. Including those healthy dogs on Purina. The healthy dog is doing it right. So all this is completely dependent on how your dog reacts to your feeding method.

 

[pamela]

I have been feeding raw for several years, and I have 5 bullies. I adopt from rescue. Each time I got a new dog, this is how I started them on raw.
First I cooked the meat and veg, gave them that for several days, and kept an eye on their stool. If all well, I then gave part cooked and part raw,meat and veg. It was the same as my other dogs were eating, so it was chicken, fish and beef. Kept eye on stool. If all was okay with that, then week later, went totally raw. Depends on dog. It usually takes 2-3 weeks to get them on totally raw.
Good for you for going to raw!! I can not imagine you regretting it.

 

[nikkiLazaro]

[MENTION=3354]RiiSi[/MENTION] [MENTION=2874]anatess[/MENTION] [MENTION=4909]pamela[/MENTION] Thank you all very much, you're all very helpful!! I'm learning something new everyday about this diet and still have tons of questions!

Since they've been doing fine with the chicken, I think I'm ready to introduce another protein source. Is it bad to mix proteins? For example, chicken and beef mixed together or should they be fed on separate meals? I'm doing the BARF diet only because I'm terrified of them choking on bones. They tend to swallow things up without chewing so I grind it all up including the bones. I'm totally fine with making vegetables as a purée to get all of their nutrition because I agree, it's hard to find organs and chicken head and feet at stores.

Another question: Say I were to give ground beef for one meal. What can I add for calcium? I read that it's eggshells but I don't know how much I should give or if eggshells alone is even enough to balance the calciumhosphorus ratio.

 

[anatess]

@RiiSi @anatess @pamela Thank you all very much, you're all very helpful!! I'm learning something new everyday about this diet and still have tons of questions!

Since they've been doing fine with the chicken, I think I'm ready to introduce another protein source. Is it bad to mix proteins? For example, chicken and beef mixed together or should they be fed on separate meals? I'm doing the BARF diet only because I'm terrified of them choking on bones. They tend to swallow things up without chewing so I grind it all up including the bones. I'm totally fine with making vegetables as a purée to get all of their nutrition because I agree, it's hard to find organs and chicken head and feet at stores.

Another question: Say I were to give ground beef for one meal. What can I add for calcium? I read that it's eggshells but I don't know how much I should give or if eggshells alone is even enough to balance the calciumhosphorus ratio.

You can mix proteins together. As for calcium, you can get one of those Bone Meal Powder to add to your ground beef.

I know it can be scary for dogs to choke on their food. But dogs can choke on anything - including kibbles. So, in my opinion (and this is my opinion alone), it is better to train the dog to crunch on their food than to give him food that does not give him any reason to learn to crunch. It's like when you have a baby, you start off cutting his grapes in half so he won't choke on it but eventually, he'll have to learn to chew his grapes. There are benefits to the crunching action that your dog is going to miss - teeth/gums/jaw health and mental stimulation to name a few that outweights the risk of choking. That's just my opinion though.

 

[LiLlilly]

I just posted something very similar on another thread but being that I'm online right now I'll say it again...

My tip for anyone starting raw...Skip chicken for now.

Nothing against chicken, but there is a little fact none of these guys mention. And you know what, probably because they had success with it which is fine. But let me tell you this...A lot of dogs have an intolerance to chicken. It's probably one of the most common protein allergy among dogs. Some will say, "raw chicken is completely different from chicken in kibbles..." Maybe so, but if you're just starting a dog out on this diet that will possibly stress it's body, why take a risk in causing a complication? This is precisely what happened to my dog...She was good for 4 days on chicken, and then the splarts began. Bloody, mucousy splarts. All over my house. Not cool lol. So I tried a new protein...PORK!

As soon as I changed her over, it helped immensely. No more loose stools, gas, and she started looking nice and muscular as well. All was great...Then I started thinking, "well hey, she's doing great on raw now I'm gonna try chicken again!" As soon as I switched her to chicken again, BAM! Splarts are back! Pork to me is the best choice for a staple protein, and after experimenting on my poor dog with chicken I will never do it again. Every dog is different, but to me you stand a better chance at sticking to raw with pork in the beginning stages. I know I was going crazy cleaning up puddles of poop all of the time, and if I can prevent it for other people I will lol. Again, nothing against chicken, but I don't agree with it being the best starter protein for dogs new to raw..And! Lets also not forget most people switch to raw because their dog has BAD allergies...Why would you start out with the most common protein allergy lol? One other thing actually...Maybe chicken is just best not used as a staple with dogs like mine? Because like I said I had a span of time where it was ok, but after about a week I had trouble with it. And yes I removed skin, and didn't feed ANY organs. I'm not convinced my dog can't eat it, but I am convinced that is no good on a daily basis for her.