An English Bulldog or an Olde English Bulldog

Siobhan Johnson · Oct 26, 2011

I am currently on the hunt for an english bulldog. I have found a little guy and am currently talking to the representative from a rescue. But, this little boy looks like an olde english bulldog. He is taller and 60 pounds at 2 years old and it is solid muscle. I have emailed the rescue stating my concerns. You see I can have an english at my apartment. But from what I have researched the Olde English is an english and pit bull/mastiff mix. In which case, I can't get him. My apartment does not allow pits or mastiff breeds. Is it true that the Olde English is an english and pit/mastiff mix?

Davidh · Oct 26, 2011

I would have to see a pic of him, usually they are bigger and weighing close to 100 lbs. Here is what I found on the net about the breed.

Historians are fairly confident that the Old English bulldog is derived from ancient war dogs, such as the old Mastiff or Alaunt. Others believe that the true origin of the breed is not entirely clear. Depictions in old prints show that the variety was without doubt a small Mastiff, with a comparatively long head. The word 'Mastiff' was eventually dropped when describing these smaller Mastiffs, as the Mastiff proper was found too slow for bull-baiting. Eventually, the Greyhound was crossed into the breed, increasing the mastiff's speed without losing the breed's ferocity. This step reduced the Old English bulldog's size and weight, with the Greyhound's features seen in specimens of that time.

One contemporary recreation of the breed is called the Olde English Bulldogge. Starting in the 1970s, a breeding program developed for cattle at Ohio State University was used, with the aim of recreating the Old English bulldog. This modern day version, though possessing similar physical abilities, does not have the violent temperament of the Old English bulldog. This recreation was done by line-breeding to create a breed with a foundation of half bulldog, and the other half Bullmastiff, American Pit Bull Terrier, and American Bulldog.

LariP · Oct 26, 2011

For a 2 year old 60 pounds isn't all that big. Ive even seen some EB's that weigh 75 lbs, so He may be an EB? Like [MENTION=2071]Davidh[/MENTION] said, OEB's tend to be closer to 100 lbs. They are more the size/build of a boxer. At least the ones I've seen have been, but they have a flatter bully face than boxers do.

nyerathrt · Oct 26, 2011

my boyfriends bullie has olde english in him but he is considered an english bulldog...his is tall, lanky and 75 pounds....i would just tell the apartment complex he is an english bulldog because that is what he is....

RescueMe · Oct 26, 2011

Mine are full bred english bulldogs and they are taller and weigh close to 60 pounds.

anatess · Oct 26, 2011

The Old English Bulldog and the English Bulldog come from the same historical background. The only difference between the two is that the English Bulldog is an Old English Bulldog with Pug characteristics bred into it, hence it is shorter and smaller.

So, it's kinda silly to allow English but not Old English in an apartment because of the breed mix unless they have a rule that says - only pugs and pug mixes allowed...

JAKEISGREAT · Oct 26, 2011

My Jake has long legs..compared to ALL his brothers..and is still filling out..I don't think the length of the legs can be much of a barometer as these dogs vary even in the same litter!

KMARINO · Oct 26, 2011

Vegas is 2 and a half and has weighed 63 for a year and a half. He is full blooded English. I would tell tell your apt. complex he is an English Bulldog period.

Rusty · Oct 26, 2011

So wait a minute, I'm confused here, I've seen medium low ground stocky bulldogs, and those that are bit taller and "skinner/lean" just to say that they are "lean" because they still got muscles... what's the difference here, I'm confused... I've heard breeds say they all pure english bulldog... what is "pure" or "original"

NikkiSchoolcraft · Oct 26, 2011

Olde English bulldogs are not a "mix". If they will let you have an EB they should let you have an OEB. Most male EBs at 2 yrs of age are around 60lbs. and OEB in comparison would be about 75 and American Bulldogs are the ones who are bigger....closer to 90lbs. OEB are very similar to EBs and like mentioned above...come from the same background.

valleygirl214 · Oct 26, 2011

We have an OEB...she's the black/white pup in my pics. She's a first generation...her dad is purebred EB and her mom is 50/50 American Bulldog/EB. She is not a pitbull or mastiff.We adopted our first OEB from a rescue so we don't know her exact lineage but she was much taller than our OEB we currently have. She was the most amazing dog I've ever known...we miss her every day.Anyway...there are some breeders who have used questionable breeding practices for the OEB but our experience so far has been awesome.I would just "he's a bulldog".

Vicaroo1000 · Oct 27, 2011

I'd hate to see this guy get the dog and then have the apt complex give him grief over the dog's lineage though. That would mean another homeless dog - or having to move. That's not good.

What does the dog look like? Bea and Bo couldn't look more different - but they are both English Bulldogs and I have their papers to prove it. Unknowing people frequently think they're a different breed when they see them together.

Rusty · Jan 8, 2012

History

Painting of a Bulldog from 1790 by Philip Reinagle.

The term "Bulldog" was first mentioned in literature around 1500, the oldest spelling of the word being Bondogge and Bolddogge. The first reference to the word with the modern spelling is dated 1631 or 1632 in a letter by a man named Preswick Eaton where he writes: "procuer mee two good Bulldogs, and let them be sent by ye first shipp".[SUP][12][/SUP] The name "bull" was applied because of the dog's use in the sport of bull baiting. This entailed the setting of dogs (after placing wagers on each dog) onto a tethered bull. The dog that grabbed the bull by the nose and pinned it to the ground would be the victor. It was common for a bull to maim or kill several dogs at such an event, either by goring, tossing or trampling. Over the centuries dogs used for bull-baiting developed the stocky bodies and massive heads and jaws which typify the breed as well as a ferocious and savage temperament. Bull-baiting - along with bear-baiting - reached the peak of their popularity in England in the early 1800s until they were both made illegal by the Cruelty to Animals Act 1835. This amended the existing legislation to protect animals from mistreatment and included (as 'cattle') bulls, dogs, bears and sheep, so that bull and bear-baiting as well as cockfighting became prohibited. Therefore, the Old English Bulldog had outlived its usefulness in England as a sporting animal and its active or 'working' days were numbered. However, emigrants did have a use for such dogs in the New World. In mid-17th century New York, Bulldogs were used as a part of a city-wide round-up effort led by governor Richard Nicolls. Because cornering and leading wild bulls was dangerous, Bulldogs were trained to seize a bull by its nose long enough for a rope to be secured around its neck.[SUP][13][/SUP] Bulldogs as pets were continually promoted by dog dealer Bill George.[SUP][14][/SUP]
Despite slow maturation so that growing up is rarely achieved by two and a half years, bulldogs lives are relatively short and at five to six years of age they are starting to show signs of aging.
In time, the original old English Bulldog was crossed with the pug. The outcome was a shorter, wider dog with a brachycephalic skull. Though today's Bulldog looks tough, he cannot perform the job he was originally created for as he cannot withstand the rigors of running and being thrown by a bull, and also cannot grip with such a short muzzle.

The oldest single breed specialty club is The Bulldog Club (England), which was formed in 1878. Members of this club met frequently at the Blue Post pub on Oxford Street in London. There they wrote the first standard of perfection for the breed. In 1891 the two top Bulldogs, Orry and Dockleaf, competed in a contest to see which dog could walk the farthest. Orry was reminiscent of the original Bulldogs, lighter boned and very athletic. Dockleaf was smaller and heavier set, more like modern Bulldogs. Dockleaf was declared the winner that year. Although some argued that the older version of the Bulldog was more fit to perform, the modern version’s looks won over the fans of the breed because they proved they were equally as fit and athletic in the walking competition.

At the turn of the 20th century, Ch. Rodney Stone became the first Bulldog to command a price of $5000 when he was bought by controversial Irish-American political figure Richard Croker.

Info and credit to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog

So from what I told... Can I safely say that the olde English bulldog has a bit taller legs and are purebred (which I don't know of what mix) and the ones short legs and wider are english bulldogs mixed with pugs? So the bit taller ones are the original? Why would people mix with pugs if they knew that the olde english was a healthier breed since they have their noses out and all... Also, why are their bulldog puppy's with long tails? Or is because it was corckscrewed by breeder? This old photo from wiki shows long tail... Still not 100% sure...
I need to get this information straighten out, please people help us out here! Thanks!

Rusty · Jan 8, 2012

Bulldog
The Bulldog of today has developed since the initial bull-baiting days, inasmuch as characteristics of the breed (such as the underbite, size of the head and width of shoulder) have been accentuated by selective breeding. The term "Bulldog" is the correct name for the breed, although they are often referred to as "English Bulldogs" or "British Bulldogs".

Olde English Bulldogge

The "Olde English Bulldogge" is a re-creation of the "Regency Period Bull Baiter", developed by David Leavitt of Coatsville, PA in the 1970s. The Olde English Bulldogge is a muscular, medium sized dog of great strength, stability and athleticism. It is well balanced and proportioned with no exaggerated features. It has the appearance of a dog capable of doing its original job of bull baiting. Excessive height would have been detrimental for the old working Bulldog as it had to “play low” to avoid the bull’s horns and fasten onto its nose. A heavyweight dog would also have been at a disadvantage as the bull’s nose would have been likely to rip sending the dog flying.
The Olde English Bulldogge breed is currently enrolled with the Canine Developmental Health and Performance Registry [3], organized by the United Kennel Club for new and rare breeds seeking full UKC acceptance.

Old English Bulldog

The first historical traces of bull-baiting occur in the time of the regency of King John. Enraged steers, specially bred for their aggressive nature, were used to test the keenness of dogs. A collar around the bull's neck was fastened to a thick rope about three to five metres long, attached to a hook, then fastened to an embedded stake that turned, allowing the bull to watch its antagonizer.
The dog's goal in the attack was to pin and steadfastly hold onto the bull's nose, which is its most sensitive spot. If the dog gripped tightly, the bull became completely tractable. The practical purpose that pre-dated the sport was that the working "butcher's dogs" rendered the semi-wild cattle available to the butcher for slaughter without human injury. To avoid this attack, experienced fighting bulls lowered their heads as much as possible in the direction of the attacking dog, protecting their noses and meeting the attacker with only their horns, tossing the dog into the air. The dog reciprocated by staying low to the ground as it crept towards the bull. These tactics resulted in a specialized breed in the form of the now-extinct original Old English Bulldog. This breed was extremely compact, broad, and muscular. Modern oral history describes a particular characteristic of the breed as a lower jaw that projected considerably in front of the upper jaw, which made possible the strong, vice-like grip. This is highly doubtful since all modern working catch dogs have a level or reverse scissors bite. The story continues that the nose was deeply set, which allowed the dog to get enough air as it gripped the bull. A certain small amount of "layback" of the nose may possibly have been desirable, but a more important characteristic would have been a large nasal opening for airflow. The contemporary recreation of this breed of lore is called the Olde English Bulldogge.

Information From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog_breeds