Help Needed! 10 Mo. Old Bullie Pup LICKING THE AIR AND PACING NON-STOP

[roscoepup]

Hi Everyone,

Here is the latest from the Vet, and then I will respond to your comments individually. Thank you again for your support. We are certainly taking all of your responses very seriously and will keep you updated....
Dr. T evaluated Roscoe again and reviewed the videos I posted. He no longer thinks it is physiological. He believes it to be behavioral, neurological or a combination of the two. We are still moving forward with the neutering on Friday. While he is under he will do an in depth exam of his ears, nose, throat, mouth and teeth (again) which will obviously be more comprehensive since he is will be sleeping.

He also gave us Valium which based on his response over the next few days will help him make some determinations. If Roscoe is a "new dog" and very calm with no licking, then it is likely a nervous, anxiety, stress or OCD type thing. Whereas, if he seems more mellow but still persists with the licking in any form, it is more likely that it is seizure related. At this point he has not ruled either out. I think seeing the recent videos was very helpful to him.

At this point, we have ruled out attention seeking and allergies of any kind. We do live in a bit of an older house so he sent out a lab testing for lead paint on a whim. We watch him so closely I would be shocked if this came back positive but it is worth a shot. We already had his blood and liver tested at the Vet Hospital so it is unlikely anything will turn up there but we will see.

Dr. T says he is unable to determine at this point whether it is Nature or Nurture aka hereditary or based on his surroundings. Again, he said it could be both. It is possible that he was predisposed to stress/anxiety/OCD and his hyperactivity has accelerated that.

To be honest, I don't think Dr. T has ever seen a bulldog as energetic and all over the place as Roscoe. He has always been high energy but this is a whole nother level. I am praying that the neutering will calm him down. Regardless of how stressful it is for Sean and I, we just feel awful for the poor guy.

Dr. has checked his eyes, and he said they look good, but again on Friday they will do another thorough exam. He said it was safe if down the road we do need to have an MRI done, he will be okay to go under again. So he said he would hold off on that still. He said because he is so young he feels that it is very unlikely to be a tumor or growth of that sort.

He also referred us to a specialist in Boston who will have more experience seeing this type of behavior or issue. Unfortunately, I don't think Dr. T has seen this exact behavior before so we are going on trial and error right now. But based on what we have ruled out, he is now leaning more towards a habitual OCD type or anxiety behavior or petit mal sezures.

Kate

 

[ddnene]

I have no experience w/this, but just wanted to offer up support & prayers. I hope that you will get an answer soon, please keep us posted!!!

 

[roscoepup]

Oh, you poor guys-that is so upsetting. The only thing I have seen, is -one of my bullies was licking and licking her nose/the air,and pacing. What I discovered with her, was that she had a couple of FLEAS under her tail! Once I flea combed it, and gave her a bath-got rid of them, she was fine. Oh, that it would be so simple for you. I will be praying for you and your baby, that this will be solved. This is so upsetting to hear about-I am so sorry that I have no better answer.....perhaps someone on here will.

Hi and thank you for responding. I wish it were that simple! We have checked his tail pocket multiple times. All three vets said it looked fine. I am glad to hear you pup was fine though, and I appreciate your prayers! Will keep you posted. Take care ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

Wow.....!! Okay, this sounds as if it could be a few different things. Does he have a tail pocket that is driving him nuts? That would be the easiest thing to rule out. I've heard of bullies that will lick the air if their little bums are itchy. Unfortunately they also claim that they will scoot on the ground.

Neurological! This is my thought. I took Vegas to the neurologist last Jan because of the same type issue. When he wasn't sleeping or engaged in an activity, he would lick the air. And cry. Vegas has epilepsy....diagnosed at 10 months old. He is now 6.

http://youtu.be/zyjksDHWajc

This would go on every day. 20 to 30 times a day. We'd give him a treat ball with goodies in it and it would stop.....until the ball was empty and it would start again. Vegas would play and chase his ball so much......he lost another 5 pounds. The vet said........"this is the first time I've ever told an owner the their bulldog was underweight"

He classified it as a type of movement disorder and or petit mal seizure. He said it wasn't an area in vet medicine that was explored too much (the movement disorder) What he did was put him back on his potassium bromide and over the last 9 months.....it's basically gone away. Since the 1st of September, it's only happened twice.

Great job on getting the video. That is the best thing to show them.

I'd love to see the video and photos of your baby!

Thank you for sharing your experience and your video! Vegas is a handsome guy! All three vets have checked tail pocket and says it looks fine. My last post has more info, but I think he is leaning towards neurological of some sort combined with OCD behavior. This is definitely a diffucult one. It is interesting that you say your bulldog was underweight. Ours is not "under" weight but he is definitely smaller than all five of his siblings (all of which have no issues??) He is 50 lbs. They are around 60, 65 and the alpha is 70!

I am so glad to hear Vegas is doing well now though, and I will be sure to keep every posted. I can't figure out how to reduce the size/resolution of my photos but as soon as I do I will post some of our Roscoe. Thank you again. ~Kate

 

[Lokismom]

I am glad to hear that they are looking into every possible option for you, Sean and Roscoe. Even though he has not seen a bulldog with this issue is does sound like they are going to explore each idea that is brought to them. When Loki started having seizures the vet said that we could get an MRI done in the future but the odds of find exactly what was causing it would be really hard to determine. Loki, Sean and I will continue to think about all 3 of you. This adventure can be a very stressful one, thankfully EBN is here with not only wisdom and recommendation but support as well. Please keep us posted on the progress with Roscoe.

 

[roscoepup]

the only time Rube has ever licked at the air or paced is when she had a itch she couldnot reach. if i find a itchy spot and scratch it for her and really get it good she will start licking the air while im scratching her. i would clean and inspect his body esp the area he cant reach (which is most of the body) and put some protective ointment like zinc oxide. or anti itch cream in any even slightly irrated area like under tail etc. and give some benadryl and see how he does. may not be right here but just saying what i would do and my experience with my 7 yo girl..hope all is ok. keep us posted

Thank you! We actually have perscription soap from the vet and have given him 2-3 good baths/scrub downs since this began about a month ago. We also tried benedryl at the very beginning but no change. I appreciate you sharing and will definitely keep all posted. ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

First off, please post a video of what the dog is doing. Based on how you chose to describe it, it absolutely sounds neurological.

With all due respect to Dr. T, I was kind of shocked by his theories. None of them make any sense to me. Behavioral? No. Allergies? That doesn't make any sense either. Training him out of it? No…

Based on how you have described it, there's a medical condition involved. Sorry for my frustrated tone, I really don't like doctors. 90% of them pull theories out of their rear ends and his don't even make sense. Time is being wasted (as it always is with most doctors who don't know what they're doing) while his condition could be advancing. The best advice you were given was from the hospital. Getting an MRI.

I'm not even sure and MRI would show anything, but this does sound neurological. MRIs are just visual photographs of the brain. He could still have something neurological wrong, even with a clean MRI. They are just going to look for plaques, or structural problems.

Other possibilities are simple things like a structural problem in the throat, even acid reflux. Or something similar. But if you brought him to a hospital already, those people know their stuff. And they most likely ruled out some things. If you're trying to save on expenses, maybe requesting an x-ray of the head and neck would be a good first step. Pacing can be a side symptom of whatever is really going on. At can reflect anxiety over whatever condition is really going on - such as pacing out of discomfort - Not necessarily neurological like a crazy person walking in circles.

With all of his silly theories, I'm surprised your doctor didn't touch on the possibility of a nutrition issue. Because that's the only thing I could see being a cause, based on the symptoms. And even that is remote. I would however, highly suggest finding a new doctor. Even if you like this one. No offense intended, but certain symptoms are obviously medical problems. For him to even suggest "training him to stop" reflects a total lack of awareness on medical issues in general.

Disclaimer: a video may render the doctor correct and render my comments wrong. I'd need to see how he truly "paces quickly" while licking in the air"

PS: one last tip: you will learn more than any doctor can tell you by simply Googling this. Which I'm about to do. Suggested search phrase: dog licking the air pacing problem. Or some variations of that.

Thank you so much for your thorough response. I am going to try to address everything. No need to apologize, as we are very frustrated too. However, we did want to rule out any "smaller" possible issues before moving forward with involved procedures. We are prepared and comfortable with having an MRI if that is the reccomendation after a few visits. It just seemed that the Vet Hospital was VERY quick to push for an MRI without exploring any other options, which is why we went for another opinion.

Perhaps I should have been more specific that Dr. T did not think it was seizures at first. The reason being that we could snap Roscoe out of it and he went in and out of these "episodes." However, after today, he thinks it could be a possibility as well as anxiety or OCD as I mentioned in my last post. As I mentioned, we are going to try Valium to see if it help, and if not, then it is most likely neurogical and we will likely have to move to phenobarbytal. Again, we are not against having an MRI and we would certainly not allow the expense to deter us if that is what he really needs. We knew that the breed would be high maitenance and was prone to health issues. We just didn't see this one coming, and so soon.

I guess having brought him to three vets, we feel that we need to have "trust" in a plan and in one Dr. to see all possibilities through. We chose Dr. T because he is also the vet for Roscoe's mom, dad, brothers and sisters. He is also the vet for my parents bulldog, and he has owned several bulldogs in the past. He seems very bright and confident in his approach, but unfortunately I don't think he has experienced this before with a bullie.

We did discuss nutrition a bit which is why we transitioned his food. We also added sweet potato for fiber. We also discussed moving to a raw diet or natural home cooked diet. We are waiting on that because we don't want too many changing variables at this time. We are trying one thing at a time at this point to try to figure this out.

I agree with you that this seems neurological. We have spent hours upon hours searching on google. We have found more on "flybiting" than on the licking the air. But we have found everything from gastro/bloat, to OCD, to stress, to seizures to something stuck in his teeth. There are just so many possibilities. We are going to need to discuss the options of an ultrasound/xray/MRI again because my gut is telling me we should try some or all of these. Even if we come up with nothing, at least we have ruled some very serious issues out.

I think the next few days we will try the prescription and revisit the conversation on Friday when we bring him in again.

Anyhow, I hope this responds to all of your points. Again, I really appreciate your detailed response and look forward to hearing your thoughts on the videos. Take Care ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

My first bully did this without the pacing, both of my bullys I have do this but dont pace. its not all the time maybe once a day or less. They have been doing this for over a year and are just fine ?

Hello and thank you. I am glad to hear your pups are doing well. If this was once a day, I may not be as concerned. It is the fact that it is continous throughout the entire day - maybe 20 stints of several minutes. We try not to let it go on that long by taking him for a walk or playing with him and engaging him very closely and persistantly. If we didnt, I am certain it could go on for hours.

Best wishes for you and your pups. ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

I'm no help but wish you luck in finding out how o help him..we have some very experienced members here..I know they can explain their experiences..

Thank you so much for your encouragement. I appreciate it. I am hopeful that these forums will really help us get to the bottom of this. The support is already very apparent. Will keep everyone posted. ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

The videos kind of make me feel like he is trying to "hide" unfortunately when Loki was having his seizures he was also trying to "hide" the vet said that it is because he doesn't want me to know that something is wrong. I would ask the vet to run a full CBC panel to make sure that the levels are as they should be. I would also recommend giving him some honey on the inside of his lips, the vet also recommended that if the activity didn't stop to give him some ice cream to snap him out it.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Tail pocket it okay. We do have some doggy ice cream we can certainly try! The Vet Hospital did run the CBC and all came back normal, which was of course a relief but not any indication of the problem. I will certainly keep in touch. ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

As some have said above, it could be something as simple as a tail pocket that's uncomfortable or fleas. Maggie was doing that a lot a while back and I feared the worst, found out her tail pocket was a bit infected AND she had fleas. I eliminated both things and she doesn't do that anymore. I hope that it isn't neurological, although if it is, it's not the end of the world! My old dog had epilepsy, he lived for a long time!

Thank you very much. We did check for fleas and tail pocket but it can't hurt to ask again on Friday while he is having his procedure. We will do that. I hope it isn't neurological too! But if it is, then we will manage it the best we can. I am happy to hear your dog with epilepsy lived a long life. We want the best for Roscoe and are working really hard to get to the bottom of this. Will keep all posted. Thank you ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

Awe he definitely seems uncomfortable...I am of no help here all I can do is offer my prayers and hugs...

Thanks so much. The support is absolutely appreciated. I am so happy I found this forum.. Take care. ~Kate

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Poor baby hope yall get it figured out!

Thank you!! Me too.

 

[roscoepup]

I have no experience w/this, but just wanted to offer up support & prayers. I hope that you will get an answer soon, please keep us posted!!!

Thank you thank you! I will definitely keep everyone posted. I always hope to read the outcome (and a positive one!) when I read these threads and often times there is no resolution. I will let you all know. Thanks! ~Kate

 

[roscoepup]

I am glad to hear that they are looking into every possible option for you, Sean and Roscoe. Even though he has not seen a bulldog with this issue is does sound like they are going to explore each idea that is brought to them. When Loki started having seizures the vet said that we could get an MRI done in the future but the odds of find exactly what was causing it would be really hard to determine. Loki, Sean and I will continue to think about all 3 of you. This adventure can be a very stressful one, thankfully EBN is here with not only wisdom and recommendation but support as well. Please keep us posted on the progress with Roscoe.

Thank you so much! I do feel good about the level of exploration we are covering, and I do feel confident in this Dr.
I appreciate your thoughts very much. It has definitely been stressful, and I know it will continue to be. But Roscoe really has become part of the family. We have had him from 10 weeks and he has always been the most loving and happy guy. I appreciate your comment on the support of EBN. That is something I think Sean and I really need right now. It has been consuming our day to day lives for several weeks. As I am sure you know, it is very exhausting. Sean works from home so he is with him all day and this it is very difficult for him to focus with this going on. When I get home from work it also consumes most of my night until bed time. Trust me, I am not here to complain whatsoever. We are happy to do everything we possibly can because we love him so much. But to feel so helpless is very difficult.

I feel like we are making some progess though, and I am so thankful for the support here in conjunction with that. Keep in touch, and I will keep everyone posted. Thank you again. ~Kate

 

[Libra926]

After seeing the video, I wanted to let you know about another thing that Vegas does. When he has this seizure-like neurological issue, he tends to put his face into a corner when he's licking. When this type of licking began, Vegas automatically came to us for help. In my video that I posted, I started to film him after he had come to me and buried his face into my side. You can also see that he is trying to hold his mouth shut in order to stop these licking fits. I'm hoping that the specialist you're going to be seeing is a neurologist, because I honestly believe that this is going to end up being some sort of neurological disorder.

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