Please Dumb it down for me on Feeding RAW like what extras are needed for the diet to meet all nutritional needs....

[Kansascitymama]

I would like to say TYIA .....I want to be sure I am doing everything correctly so this little dude does not get sick or Gia. Mr. Beefy is doing awesome btw and is growing. I have him on instinct RAW atm. I also went to whole foods and stocked up on chicken backs & legs, some lamb organ meat ie: Liver, heart, and kidney. Gia my standard poodle has been transitioned to RAW or BARF to (weight is approx. 47 pounds) . For example this morning Mr. B had 1 cup of the instinct RAW and I also added 1/2 cup of the Instinct kibble (per package directions) which I do 3 times a day. So I would like to feed him The Instinct 2 times a day then add prey into his 3rd meal or 2nd. So how should that meal be portioned and mixed as far as the meat bone and organ meats? Gia for Example I gave her 1 chicken back w/ meat and some skin w/ bone, 1 cup of the instinct RAW (added 1 egg yolk in which I was doing even when she was on kibble 2 times per week), and about 4 oz organ meat. So for her dinner do the same thing? Im confused as all #%&& lol. I just want to get it right. My mom always said there is no such thing as a dumb question lol! Are there any other supplements needed? FYI: Both dogs poo looks great (if poop can even be nice looking to begin with)

 

[Kansascitymama]

I only add the kibble once per day since he is so young and just starting to learn how to even chew kibble lol. He never eats it all.

 

[Kansascitymama]

ANybody????

 

[2BullyMama]

ANybody????

I tagged a few of the members that raw feed.... They will be along shortly

 

[aprilemari]

Hi! I read your post earlier, and i know some things, but i'm like you, I feed NVI raw patties. I am on a raw feeding email list that has been super helpful and i'll just tell you what they say to do…

An ideal ratio of raw is:
Meat 80% bone 10% and organ 10% (5% of which is liver)

Now this 10% bone and 10% organ meat doesnt have to be given with every meal, but it depends on how your dog is doing. If his poop is soft, add more bone, if his poop is dry and chalky, reduce the amount of bone. Some give a perfect ratio every meal, some give pieces of meat with large bones in it every other day or so.

I think the heart is considered muscle meat, not organ.

I also think if you are going to feed raw, cut out the kibble completely. Especially with mixed meals. kibble and raw food digest at very different rates and if you want to feed raw, don't complicate the belly with processed foods.

i hope this helps? sorry we are late in answering April

 

[anatess]

The simplest dumbed down method of feeding a dog is through whole prey. A dog can take all the nutrients it needs for optimal health from an entire animal. A dog can eat an entire rabbit including its fur. A rabbit contains all of the nutrients a dog needs but it may not be in the proper proportions, therefore, a variety of animal sources is ideal. A good mix is a small mammal like a rabbit, a larger mammal like pig or cow, fowl like chicken or quail or turkey, and fish.


But, giving the dog whole prey may not be practical - whole rabbits are cost prohibitive unless you have a rabbitry in your backyard. Whole chickens that has its innards may not be available. And unless you're a hunter, it is difficult and costly to purchase an entire pig or cow complete with innards. Because of this, researchers came up with the Prey Model (also referred to as frankenprey). Basically, instead of getting whole rabbits, a dog gets a mix of different animal parts that are modeled after the nutritional yield of a rabbit. This model as mentioned by aprilemari above follows the formula: 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other secreting organs. Heart, tongue, gizzards, etc., are non-secreting therefore they are counted as muscle meat.


In its natural behavior, a dog may trap a rabbit or quail and eat the entire prey in one sitting. Other times, it takes down a larger prey and consumes the entire thing leaving only the weight-bearing bones in a span of several days. We can model our dog's meals in this same manner as well - we can give the dog frankenprey equivalent to whole prey in one sitting or we can put together frankenprey that the dog will eat across several days or weeks.


There is no need to supplement this model with plant matter or artificial chemicals unless, for some reason, you can't follow the model (animal parts can be cost prohibitive in some areas or even hard to find like organs and such). In this case, you can substitute with veggies to get a balanced nutrition. Also, if the dog exhibits certain health issues like constipation or diarrhea or joint pains, then you can address the issue by supplementing with veggies or artificial chemicals if adjustments to the frankenprey model is not working. Note that a dog is not as efficient at digesting plant matter, so it is recommended to either purée the veggie or cook it. Also, plants is better limited to not more than 20% of the meal.


This is a sample of my dog's diet:
1.) One whole chicken with the baggie of innards in the chicken. Weight is usually 3 lbs or so. 2 to 3 ounces of chicken liver. One egg cracked open complete with shell. Feed half and save he rest for tomorrow, or if he eats the entire thing, he fasts the next day.
2.) One whole rabbit from the reptile food supplier. I skin the rabbit tho because it makes a big mess.
3.) Beef hearts, turkey necks, beef liver, beef kidney, fish filet (whatever is on sale at the grocery).


But, if you want to stick with the NVI patties, that's fine too. The NVI frozen products are balanced for complete all stages nutrition. There is no need to supplement with anything including kibbles unless your dog has health issues.


Hope this helps.

 

[RiiSi]

I'm not familiar with the pre-made products that are sold in the US. From what I know they're made so that they have all that the dog needs, so giving something else besides that, will have to have all that is needed aswell. I also would not give kibble with raw, at least not with the same meal. When my youngest was a pup, I made my own mixes that had everything that a pup needs, meat, bone, organ and some....

 

[Kansascitymama]

I am just speaking about full RAW in general not the packaged food. I was trying to leave examples of what I have been doing Or feeding. Ty for the replies.

 

[izstigspunks]

A whole chicken back sounds like a lot of bone. Even a chicken quarter is a lot of bone, according to the 80-10-10 standard. If they can handle it, I would feed a chicken quarter one day, then a boneless meal the other, so the total bone ratio will improve.

 

[Bella'sMom]

So let me get this straight. If I go with the meat ratios, no need to add rice/potatoes or veggies, right?

I think I will look into this. Bella did so great when she was on raw, but due to finances, I had to take her off the pre-made patties. Now any type of transition? or just stop kibble and go to raw immediately?

 

[anatess]

So let me get this straight. If I go with the meat ratios, no need to add rice/potatoes or veggies, right?

I think I will look into this. Bella did so great when she was on raw, but due to finances, I had to take her off the pre-made patties. Now any type of transition? or just stop kibble and go to raw immediately?

If you can get a good variety of meat sources then yes, no need to supplement with any plant matter.

For a transition, I suggest to fast the dog for a day (or 12 hours for puppies under 6 months) then switch cold turkey. Lol cold turkey... how appropriate is that?

 

[Bella'sMom]

What organs would be considered secreting?

 

[Bella'sMom]

Ok. I picked up ground sirloin. Ground chicken. Beef liver and kidney and fresh bone meal from the butcher. I will mix at the ratio. Sound good ?????? By the way they gave me the bone meal for free

 

[anatess]

What organs would be considered secreting?

The easiest accessible is kidneys. They sell those in the local grocery stores. I'm not sure how it is in the north but down here in the south you'll find things like hog maw, chitterlings, and brains and even something called offal that is a mix of secreting and non-secreting organs and sweetbread that has pancreas.

The Asian stores - especially the Filipino store - is an organs gold mine! They can be pricey though.

 

[anatess]

Ok. I picked up ground sirloin. Ground chicken. Beef liver and kidney and fresh bone meal from the butcher. I will mix at the ratio. Sound good ?????? By the way they gave me the bone meal for free

Sound good! Especially with the free bone meal! W00t!

Just a note on ground meat - it's good... but if your dog can consume non-ground stuff, even better. There are benefits to the chewing and tearing action required to process non-ground food - dental health and mental stimulation. Also, ground meat may have a higher bacteria load because of all that exposed surface area of the meat as opposed to meat chunks.

But, if that's what you're comfortable with - go for it! It's all good!