Breathing

[Opie CHL]

Very interesting, Kevin.
Stouffer does something like this. I've never noticed it when he's in his REM sleep, though. First he will take a REALLY deep breath, blow it out, and then there is like a 5-7 second pause before he starts breathing again. Not sure if this is normal, but it always makes me a little nervous.

Chumley does this exact same thing...a very long deep breath and exhales it all...then you hear nothing for 5 seconds..its very scary

 

[Jennifer Clark]

Interesting:

J Appl Physiol. 1987 Oct;63(4):1344-50.

The English bulldog: a natural model of sleep-disordered breathing.

Abstract

To establish a natural model of sleep-disordered breathing, we investigated respiration during wakefulness and sleep in the English bulldog. This breed is characterized by an abnormal upper airway anatomy, with enlargement of the soft palate and narrowing of the oropharynx. During sleep, the animals had disordered respiration and episodes of O2 desaturation. These were worst in rapid-eye-movement (REM) sleep, with most bulldogs having O2 saturations of less than 90% for prolonged durations. In contrast, control dogs never desaturated. In REM sleep, the bulldogs had episodes of both central and obstructive apnea, the latter being associated with paradoxical movements of the rib cage and abdomen. During wakefulness, the bulldogs were hypersomnolent as evidenced by a shortened sleep latency (mean of 12 min compared with greater than 150 min for controls). This animal model should facilitate studies of the natural history of the sleep apnea syndrome and its complications.




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This is so interesting to me. Okay so first off, sleep apnea has one major symptom: Constantly tired all day. Hypersomnolence. Sound familiar with english bulldogs? Secondly, long durations of oxygen desaturation are extremely bad for the brain. This means for extended periods of time, there is oxygen deprivation in the dogs blood supply, and therefore brain. This of course can cause all kinds of neurological problems long-term. Lastly, the sleep latency (time it takes for the bulldog to go from a waking state to a sleeping state) was 12 minutes versus 150 minutes. Its interesting because I, like I'm sure many of you here, just think our bulldogs are lazy. When in fact the difficulty breathing can result in sleep apnea disorder, which in turn results in sleeping all day long, constantly being tired, and unfortunately low oxygen saturation to the brain. I suppose instead of thinking its cute how "lazy" they are, we could be thinking of ways to help them sleep better. I'll have to think about that one as I can't come up with any ideas right now. Interesting either way.

I may not understand all the terminology but I get the jist of it. The question is how do we help them....

 

[JennieS]

it does sound like it could be apnea.... how old is Ruthie?

She's 4. She really scared us last night. It was just so sudden and sounded like she was literally taking her last breath, it was that strong. She's a snorer too and this is the loudest I have ever heard it.

 

[2BullyMama]

She's 4. She really scared us last night. It was just so sudden and sounded like she was literally taking her last breath, it was that strong. She's a snorer too and this is the loudest I have ever heard it.

Yes, it is very scary. I had two with the issue a BUlldog and a Frenchie... next time at the vet ask them to check her palate and tell them abou the apnea jsut to ensure it is nothing else.

 

[nycbullymama]

Like [MENTION=2894]2BullyMama[/MENTION] my pup just had the palate surgery last Monday. He also had his saccules and tonsils removed which also cause obstruction. [MENTION=7749]ChrisRN[/MENTION] had it done for her bullie too, along with the nares procedure. It absolutely does help with breathing.

Here's a link explaining airway obstruction in bullies, it's short and worth reading. http://www.bulldogdvm.com/Pages/breathing.aspx

 

[Jennifer Clark]

I did more reading on the sleep apnea thing last night and its a pretty important topic for english bulldogs. Baxter definitely stops breathing while he's sleeping and that is concerning to me, because it is brain/oxygen deprivation. Also increases his blood pressure significantly which may be why I see his face is so "red" under the white fur while he sleeps. This is damaging to the heart over the long term. He's still a puppy so I am going to keep reading to see if there's some way to address this early on.

@Casper you nailed it! I wish someone would invent a cpap for bullys. I just found it so peculiar that english bulldogs had all of these very specific, yet seemingly random, yet very serious medical problems. (head tremors, heart weakness, cardiovascular problems, etc). Then I noticed baxter not breathing, and found that sleep apnea causes all of these things.

When your bulldogs eyes are moving rapidly, that means he's at his deepest stage of sleep (REM). If the breathing stops happen more often during this period, its called "central sleep apnea" and they blame the brain for not triggering breathing. I still believe if their airways were unobstructed, this wouldn't happen at all. CPAP machines have something like a 95% cure rate and all they do is improve airflow.

Everything I read says "Sleep apnea should be treated immediately, dont wait". That tells me its really an important issue for long term health. Correct that waiting till 2 makes sense.

When i see it happening I try to rub his belly and tell him to breathe and he starts up again immediately. To answer everyone's question - i guess my curiosity stems from a love for understanding biology, the body, and medical topics. I run a couple medical related websites which educate consumers and act as liaisons between doctors and patients. I think what I love the most is that for every "condition" there is a cause, and steps you can take to fix it. You just have to figure out what it is. As you probably guessed my favorite show was "House"

@2BullyMama @Alice Kable
Thank you. You are all correct. Im apprehensive for surgery, but you're correct. This is the way its treated with english bulldogs. The simple fact is that oxygen deprivation and nightly blood pressure spikes are very damaging to the brain and heart. So i think it would be worth it, no doubt. I agree with you that it increases your dogs lifespan. So interesting isn't it, that simple as simple as 5 second pauses in breathing could one day result in a heart attack, or head tremors?

@MelanieNormansMom
Ill let the others comment, but I read in a book that you can determine this by noticing that the lower jaw is not jutting out as far as with other bulldogs. Seems kind of vague, but im sure a vet would know for sure.

I'll post anything more I can find into this thread in the future. If anyone wants to invent a CPAP for a bully .... LOL ... good luck.

Sheldon's under bite isn't as bad as others its barely noticeable

So sayeth the Sheldon Puppy!

 

[MARY BARNES]

Ellie was short of breath,and sleeps with us .I put a stand up fan at the end of our bed and she loves to stick her face in it . I think it helps her breath better. But I'm not sure how other EB'S would like wind in their faces, but Ellie loves it . Ellie is 5.5 months old now.

 

[JennieS]

Yes, it is very scary. I had two with the issue a BUlldog and a Frenchie... next time at the vet ask them to check her palate and tell them abou the apnea jsut to ensure it is nothing else.

When she got spade her first vet was supposed to check her palate while she was under and they were going to go ahead and fix it, if she did have it. They never did check it, one of the many reasons we switched vets. I'll make sure to bring it up and to discuss the apnea. Thank you

 

[Jennifer Clark]

Ellie was short of breath,and sleeps with us .I put a stand up fan at the end of our bed and she loves to stick her face in it . I think it helps her breath better. But I'm not sure how other EB'S would like wind in their faces, but Ellie loves it . Ellie is 5.5 months old now.

Our bedroom is the coolest room in the house and has fans going Sheldon prefers that room to all the others

So sayeth the Sheldon Puppy!

 

[fastmatt613]

Definitely keeping an eye on this as A) Rocco snores like a wilderbeast and B) I noticed last week when he was sleeping in my lap that he seemed to stop breathing for a few seconds. I was so worried I shook him to wake hm up and he was fine. But definitely want to keep a close watch on this