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Thread: Crate Training Help pls.

  1. #1
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Crate Training Help pls.

    I saw videos of this puppy with the breeder and noticed he was the one who shrieked and whined for no reason anytime anyone walked 3 inches away from him.

    I thought it was cute in the video. I was aware there may be some anxiety issues. None of the other puppies seemed to care.

    I am having some problems with the crate training. Mostly I just want to be sure I am doing this right.

    It seems like there is a fine line between not catering to his "dominant" personality, versus torturing him. I want to be sure I'm not doing the latter.

    I realize puppies cry in crates. I realize they don't like it. I am fine waiting-out the ear piercing, shrieking, bloody murder screams and whatnot. As long as I know this isn't going to mentally damage the dog later.

    What bothers me is what I see when I wake up in the morning.

    I have a "puppy apartment".

    One side is his sleeping area. The other is the potty area.

    The entire advertisement for this thing was that "no dog" will sleep in their own poop. So they poop on one side, and sleep on the other. The perfect solution! (not...)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwZkNlcoWy0

    Baxter gets himself so worked up, upset, and utterly insane, that I wake up and the entire place is smeared in poop. Including himself.

    He seems okay at night. Cries for a few minutes then goes to sleep. Mornings are a disaster.

    They tell me to sit in the same room with him in the crate. Let him see me in the room. Let him calm down.

    This doesn't seem to work for him. The screaming continues unabated as the poop flies.

    I do not want to "feed" his dominating personality. But I also do not want to damage him mentally.

    -crate-jpgI guess I don't know where its abuse, and where its "training" ... and im not clear why he destroys his crate.

    Thanks for any help.
    Last edited by Baxter Tiberius; 08-10-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    @Baxter Tiberius There will be more advise in a few but first thing I can tell you is take the potty pad out of the crate.
    1.Dogs should never be trained to poop or pee in their sleeping area. You need to put the divider in the crate and make it big enough so he can stand up and turn around. Dogs naturally will not poop or pee where they sleep.
    2. Puppies between 8-14 weeks needs to be taken out between every 2-3 hours during the night. You need to set your alarm clock to wake you up and take him potty. Even if he doesnt want to wake up take him out.
    3. To make the crate a happy place put the crate near your bed when he crys during the night put your fingers in the crate pet or wiggle so he can see you are there dont take him out unless it is potty time.
    4. Cover the top and side of the crate with a towel or sheet leave the front open (not covered) so he can see out. It make a cave type atmosphere which dogs love.
    5. Before bed time make it fun. Give him a special snack we give ours a half a rice cake with peanut butter and then take him out to potty and wait til he does his business and get excited about once he goes.

    Regarding the puppy apartment yah I really dont think that will work with puppies they tend to eat the potty pads and you should never train a dog to go inside the house. They need to learn to hold it or learn to notify you when they need to go. I am sure someone will be by who can advise how to train a dog to go inside a home.


    Puppies are a lot of work but with love and patience he will understand the crate is a safe place. Dogs love routine keep at it and he will love his crate.
    Last edited by Ashleym; 08-10-2013 at 10:05 AM.

  3. #3
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    1) The divider is up. I am using the crate the way they suggest. The potty pad is not in the sleeping area.

    2) I dont live in a house, but on the 50th floor of a skyrise condo downtown, and the only grass he could go on is half a block away. Several people report success condo-training their dogs. I just need to figure out the proper technique. I do have a very large balcony which I hoped to train him to go out onto, where there would be a potty pad, or a patch of grass: http://www.freshpatch.com

    On another note:

    The breeder trained the puppy to pee "anywhere" outside of the crate. In Colombia where he was, this means the second he steps out of his crate, its free reign for going to the bathroom. They are on a large grassy lot. This has made it difficult to teach him to only go on the potty pad. He pretty much goes to the bathroom anywhere he is standing. He doesn't seek out grass, or a potty pad like most dogs I've had.

    I have potty pads set up throughout the condo but he just poops and pees around them. We are only at day 2, but he's about 70% miss and 30% of the time he seeks out the pad and goes on it. I reward and praise him when he does this, but I wonder if he realizes the difference. Why? Because there is no scolding when he doesn't. In the past, my parents would scold the puppy, put his nose in it, then show him the potty pad, but I read that this is cruel and does not work with bulldogs. So I feel a little confused as to what I am supposed to do.

    Is there a proper technique? I have all the patience in the world. But I also like to be effective at the steps I am taking.

    Kevin
    Last edited by Baxter Tiberius; 08-10-2013 at 11:21 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    You have been give some great advice already. I would cut off the potty side of the crate and just leave him enough room to sit, stand, lie down and turn around and thats it. He will learn. Being that you are in a condo you and get one of those 3x3 simulated patches of grass that is a potty place and start by taking him to it every 2 hours with it next to his crate and then move it closer and closer to the door to your balcony every few days. He will eventually get the hint.
    Bulldogs are like potato chips. You just can't stop with one.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    Ahh ok that does make it very difficult. Someone should be stopping by who can give you some advise on training to go on a balcony or use the pet condo. Also the best thing ever to have on hand while potty training and highly recommended is the Spot Bot by Bissell http://www.bissell.com/spotbot-pet/ helped me thru the potty training hell lol. Good luck and lets see some pictures of your new baby

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Tiberius View Post
    1) The divider is up. I am using the crate the way they suggest. The potty pad is not in the sleeping area.

    2) I dont live in a house, but on the 50th floor of a skyrise condo downtown, and the only grass he could go on is half a block away. Several people report success condo-training their dogs. I just need to figure out the proper technique. I do have a very large balcony which I hoped to train him to go out onto, where there would be a potty pad, or a patch of grass: http://www.freshpatch.com

    On another note:

    The breeder trained the puppy to pee "anywhere" outside of the crate. In Colombia where he was, this means the second he steps out of his crate, its free reign for going to the bathroom. They are on a large grassy lot. This has made it difficult to teach him to only go on the potty pad. He pretty much goes to the bathroom anywhere he is standing. He doesn't seek out grass, or a potty pad like most dogs I've had.

    I have potty pads set up throughout the condo but he just poops and pees around them. We are only at day 2, but he's about 70% miss and 30% of the time he seeks out the pad and goes on it. I reward and praise him when he does this, but I wonder if he realizes the difference. Why? Because there is no scolding when he doesn't. In the past, my parents would scold the puppy, put his nose in it, then show him the potty pad, but I read that this is cruel and does not work with bulldogs. So I feel a little confused as to what I am supposed to do.

    Is there a proper technique? I have all the patience in the world. But I also like to be effective at the steps I am taking.

    Kevin
    I can relate- I too live in a high rise downtown. It's tough- I never potty pad trained I believe it confuses the dog. I literally had to pick duchess up and run her outside every hour on the hour- she's now 17 months and very house trained. Duke is 5 months and same thing pick up and go out . It's a hassle but it can be done. Regardless of the manufacturer recommendations I would not train the pup to eliminate in the crate. Another solution is if you have a balcony they have litter boxes that simulate grass patches you could train him to go there- again don't like the idea they stink and are hard to clean and your not training the pup that he actually has to wait until that elevator reaches the 50th floor and then goes back downstairs before he gets outside. You don't want a 2 year old bulldog that can't hold it or looks for potty pads. Good luck- it's tougher living in a high rise I know! But it can be done! Good luck!

  7. #7
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    Here's the thing. If I know he's learning, then I am fine. What I hate is the possibility that he has no idea what I am trying to show him.

    The breeder taught him was "its okay to piss anywhere you want, as long as its not inside the crate".

    So this is what just happened:

    1) I walk into his room. He pee'd a huge puddle, right next to the potty pad. About 6 inches away.
    2) As this happened long before, I did not bother doing a negative reaction to it. He wouldn't understand.

    3) As I was cleaning the puddle, he was standing outside his playpen watching me.
    4) When I finished, I stood up, and looked over. He had just pee'd another puddle right where he was standing.
    5) This time I gave him a reaction of "No!" Showed him the pee, and placed him on the potty pad.

    At this point I pretty much assume he has no idea what the hell im talking about.

    6) I began cleaning his second puddle of pee, and he came out of the pen, and sat and watched me again.
    7) I used the spray for "masking" the urine scent, wiped it up, dried it, etc.
    8) When I stood up, he had literally done it again. Another puddle right where he was standing on the hardwood floor.

    He doesn't even bother to look for a place to go.
    He doesn't sniff around. He doesn't seek out the pad.
    He just releases.

    Is this normal?
    I literally have cleaned up about 40 or 50 urine puddles that were nowhere near any potty pads, in the last 3 days.
    He just goes. He's not overexcited. He doesn't have a problem holding it.
    He simply thinks its okay to go.

    I realize the association he has in his head. Its quite simple:

    1) If someone is carrying him, he holds it. The minute they put him down on the floor, he pees.
    2) If he is in a carrying case, he holds it. A long time even. The minute the door opens, no matter where he is, he pees.
    3) If he is in his crate, the minute he steps out of it onto the hardwood floor, he pees.

    I would say 1 in 7 times he actually seeks out the potty pad and uses it. Almost always when I am in the room.

    I know the breeder lives on a large plot of land, and keeps them in crates. So its "Free reign" the minute he stepped out of the crate there.
    This is how he was trained. I feel like I am having to "untrain" him, as well as retrain him, and its not working.

    If this is 100% normal (to literally pee everywhere you go, anytime, without any rhyme or reason) then I will keep with it, and expect improvements as the days/weeks go by.

    But I have this nagging feeling that I am not communicating effectively with him at all, and I don't know how to do it.

    I literally had to pick duchess up and run her outside every hour on the hour
    Even that doesn't work with this guy. First, its literally a 10 minute process getting to the potty spot. Prep time, leash, harness, wait for elevator. Ride elevator, 75 people lavishing his cuteness. Down another 3 flights of stairs. Out the front door. Then literally a half block walk to the patch of grass. Last time we got as far as the outside door, I put him down, and he peed right there (see description above). We never even made it to the grass. I can't imagine a dog is going to comprehend the monumental process of getting to the patch of grass and holding it. Seems like too much goes on in the meantime. Its not like scratch the door, walk out, pee. Like if you had a house.

    Kevin
    @Ashleym @Marine91 @Scueva
    Last edited by Baxter Tiberius; 08-11-2013 at 05:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    @Baxter Tiberius Yes you are going to have to retrain him especially from the environment he was in to the situation he is in now. We have the same issues with Fergus but we dont live in a high rise building having to go down 50 floors.

    Try the artificial potty grass http://www.porchpotty.com instead of the potty pads. Your pup needs to be tethered to you on her leash as soon as she comes out of the crate @JAKEISGREAT has a great method of potty training that has helped many. I have tagged her to read your thread.

    Seriously get the Spot bot http://www.bissell.com/spotbot-pet/ you use the enzyme cleaner on the carpet first then the put the spot bot on top of the stain. The spotbot not only will it save your sanity but it will do an extra deep cleaning to make sure the smell is gone

    I am a strong believer in not letting a dog potty in the house from start since it does confuse them and it only takes longer to potty train them. My strongest suggestion is to put the artificial grass outside have her tethered to you with her leash as soon as she gets out of the crate. When you notice she is about to pee pick her up immediately and put her on the grass. Keep doing this. Use treats and high praise )get excited when she uses the grass. I know it seems like they dont get it or is doing it on purpose but remember they are babies and cannot understand only with repetition will they learn. The normal time frame for most bullies on being fully potty trained is 3-4months with occasional accidents mine was fully trained with no accidents at 5 months. Its a long road but there is a light in the tunnel.

    If you have a slider for your porch you can add something like this insert for your slider http://www.petsafe.net/doors/sliding-door-inserts

    Some more will be by with other suggestions. Dont get frustrated they can feel your emotions this is part of owning a bully puppy. Once you survive this and the teething that is the peak of the hill the rest is pure enjoyment .
    Last edited by Ashleym; 08-11-2013 at 06:34 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    I agree with @Ashleym you are going to have to break his current habit by starting over. It is going to be a long hard process but you can do it. As was mentiomed @JAKEISGREAT has a process that has helped a lot of people. She should be along shortly.
    Bulldogs are like potato chips. You just can't stop with one.

  10. #10
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    Okay everyone thank you. I am waiting for the grass to arrive. Fortunately I am in one of these Miami condos and everything is white marble/glass floor. No carpets. Today it happened again. ... im cleaning up one puddle, and he's peeing another one 10 feet away, only 5 minutes after the first. Then again. Then again.

    When i think of the post above mentioning having to run him outside every hour, I think "Wow, must be nice!" He does this every 10 minutes.

    I agree regarding the grass, and the balcony. I am going to have to figure out how to do this though.
    The balcony door can't be open all the time. Its 90 and humid here in Miami.
    Balcony has severely strong winds most of the time too, but that is manageable.
    The balcony doors are 10 feet tall and all glass. (floor to ceiling windows).
    The most ideal, perfect, wonderful situation would be:

    1) Thing-a-magig that is 10 feet tall, allows balcony door to be open a foot or two, seals the opening from top to bottom, with a doggy door at the bottom.
    2) Grass square on the balcony.

    If I can figure out how to do that impossible feat (esp # 1) then we are golden.
    Hmmmm: http://www.petco.com/product/111433/...FRFp7AodpxsAfQ

    Another problem: The condo is 1 floor and about 2100 sq feet. This means from one end of the condo to the other is like going from California to New York for him. For a dog who freely pees wherever he's standing, and maybe goes 3 feet before peeing again, Im not sure how this is going to work.
    @Ashleym

    Kevin
    Last edited by Baxter Tiberius; 08-11-2013 at 07:35 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    @Baxter Tiberius peeing every 10 -15 mins is a lot even for a puppy he might have a Urinary tract infection. Give him 1 tbs of plain yogurt or better yet kefir a day you can give it to him as either a treat or as a topping on his kibble. Next visit mention to your vet and have him test the pee. Take a sample. Do you notice if it is blood in the pee? Is there a lot of pee or just a little? Does it stink real bad? Read this article see if it this is what your puppy is expericing. http://www.dailypuppy.com/articles/h...-uti_1459.html

    Other then that usually if you pick the puppy up when they are about to pee they will stop. You should be able to run him to the potty area. As soon as I picked up my puppies when they were about to squat they would stop immediately. Just make sure you say no as you pick him up.

    Your place sounds gorgeous at least you have hard surfaces it makes for easy clean up you might have to have a special insert made for your situation especially with the high winds or I have heard a window maker can actually install a doggy door in the actual glass of the slider. I am sure living in Miami with all the high rises there would be a company who could do that for you.
    Last edited by Ashleym; 08-11-2013 at 07:56 PM.

  12. #12
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: Crate Training Help pls.

    @Ashleym

    I have stopped him about 100x as he starts to pee. I say no. I pick him up and put him on the potty pad, usually 15 feet away, and he just stops, looks at me, and walks away from the potty pad. He doesn't continue. :-/

    I have to watch him like a hawk, or yes, he does just start dropping little puddles everywhere. If I go take a shower, I expect there will be something. No smell at all. No blood. I read the article though and I am not sure. He just has been trained that he never has to hold it. Maybe. The puddles he leaves are about the size of a baseball. Its like if he's out of sight of a potty pad, he will just go. Whenever. Wherever. Doesn't think twice about it.

    This situation has me stumped. I have never seen a puppy have this many accidents. I have had dogs in the past. The big "terror" was "finding poop" once a day, maybe. Oh no! The dog pooped in the house. The horror! ... now that makes me laugh. This is 100x more frequent. I don't give him a whole lot of water. But maybe I will reduce it further anyway.

    As I was just typing that - he walked out of his playpen area, away from the potty pad, began playing with something on the floor, walked another 5 feet, and squatted to take a poop.

    I immediately said "Baxter, no!" He stopped.

    I picked him up, put him on the potty pad inside the playpen. Instead of continuing to poop, he crawled away into his bed and laid down looking sad and guilty. Now he's asleep.

    I just don't understand it. There's no rhyme or reason to his behavior. That's the frustrating part. Even dogs usually have a pattern.

    Kevin
    Last edited by Baxter Tiberius; 08-11-2013 at 10:55 PM.

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