Need help on next steps with Food

[seckel119]

Hi Everyone. New here, but already finding a wealth of information. Quick intro: We added our sweet little girl to our family back in Sept, she is currently ~7months old, my son named her Artemis after the Greek Goddess . She is a very energetic and happy little girl.

In the last week we have been really struggling and I need some help/advice. When we picked her up from the breeder, she was on Purina Pro Plan; and did well on it, but I wanted to switch her to something better. After much research we decided to switch her to raw. Able to get frozen raw from a local store, it is a complete blend with beef, salmon, organ, etc. We transitioned her about 4ish weeks ago and everything was going great. Her coat was softer, she pooped way less and most important she really seemed to love it! We went though the first several pounds that I purchased, and went back to the same shop and purchased more of the same type.

On Sunday evening, Jan 22nd. Feed her the newly purchased food, and she ended up with her stomach bloating up (like noticeable bloating) shortly after eating and some diarrhea. I took her in to the urgent care vet because I was concerned of actual bloat with how much she expanded in her tummy. They check her all over, everything was fine and after a couple hours in the waiting room her bloat had significantly reduced, to almost back done to normal. We went home and thought - well - maybe she ate too fast.

The next couple of days she seemed fine. I had some of the previous purchased raw (same type, just purchased on different date). So I fed her that and mixed with the newly purchased stuff. On Thursday, Jan 26th - over night she had explosive diarrhea all over her crate, and on Friday throughout the day had some episodes as well as Friday & Sat. On Sunday ( 29th) I took her back into the urgent care vet as she had also started to have bloody diarrhea. They gave her fluids, metronidazole, and instructions to switch her to a bland diet of chicken and rice.

So that's where this finds us. I started her on Chicken/Rice on Sunday. I had her take the metronidazole on Sun & Mon AM. Her poops have now returned to normal (thankfully!). I have now noticed her bottom and top lips are bright red. So wondering --- does she have a sensitively to chicken (hasn't shown anything in the past) so I have switched her to Hamburger and Rice. Still has red lips, so now I'm thinking she might have problem with rice? OR - was in the metronidazole - hence why I haven't given her any past Monday AM.

Here is where I need some help. I'm at a loss to what to fed her now. She can't stay on the chicken/rice or burger/rice. I don't want to switch her back to the Purina. I am so very concerned to switch her back to the raw that I honestly think made her sick. I want to switch her to high quality kibble (Acana, Nature's Logic, Farmina, etc). But I don't know how to transition her. Normally would do a slow transition, but with all the issues on previous/current food, do I just start feeding her the new kibble? Should I cut the rice out and transition from straight chicken or burger? What are your thoughts on the red lips?

I feel so terrible if it was the raw food (and I honestly don't know what else it could have been). I so wanted to do the right move by switching to raw, but now I'm hesitant to go back to it.

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Here are some pics of our cute baby. Before the red lips - and after.

 

[berlin78]

What a pretty girl! I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I do with allergies in general, and I am guessing it could definitely be that. Someone here will get you loads of helpful advice, I'm sure! Hope she feels better, and don't beat yourself up. We love them so much, and sometimes in doing what we think will help them we realize how much trial and error there can really be.

 

[Cbrugs]

Welcome...she is a cutie! While feeding raw is definitely great, some bulldogs don't tolerate beef very well. If you want to stick with raw, I would try a different protein...duck, rabbit, turkey, etc. Also, when feeding raw, you want to rotate between at least 3 different proteins as each protein contains different nutritional value. Rotating between different brans is also good as each brand sources their ingredients differently. Since you are just starting, I would stick to one protein for 2 weeks to make sure there are no issues, next protein for 2 weeks and so on. Then you rotate weekly, monthly, daily...it all balances over time.
If you do want to go back to kibble, since her stomach already seems to be upset, you can just switch back over. Or just start mixing some in with the chicken and rice.

My 2 boys eat raw and my 2 girls eat Open Farm with Ancient Grains and all are doing well with what they eat.

Good luck!

 

[seckel119]

Welcome...she is a cutie! While feeding raw is definitely great, some bulldogs don't tolerate beef very well. If you want to stick with raw, I would try a different protein...duck, rabbit, turkey, etc. Also, when feeding raw, you want to rotate between at least 3 different proteins as each protein contains different nutritional value. Rotating between different brans is also good as each brand sources their ingredients differently. Since you are just starting, I would stick to one protein for 2 weeks to make sure there are no issues, next protein for 2 weeks and so on. Then you rotate weekly, monthly, daily...it all balances over time.
If you do want to go back to kibble, since her stomach already seems to be upset, you can just switch back over. Or just start mixing some in with the chicken and rice.

My 2 boys eat raw and my 2 girls eat Open Farm with Ancient Grains and all are doing well with what they eat.

Good luck!

Thank you for the quick note back! Good too know I can transition her to kibble fairly quickly. That is good too know on raw with the different proteins. I do think I eventually want to switch her back to raw, but would like to have things settle down first. I have a vet appt on Feb 8th where I would like to get allergy testing done first, and then we can hopefully determine if any issues with a specific protein.

Thank you for the help!!

 

[seckel119]

What a pretty girl! I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I do with allergies in general, and I am guessing it could definitely be that. Someone here will get you loads of helpful advice, I'm sure! Hope she feels better, and don't beat yourself up. We love them so much, and sometimes in doing what we think will help them we realize how much trial and error there can really be.

Thank you for the kind note back. I'll try not to beat myself up

 

[Bulldog2001]

Hi Everyone. New here, but already finding a wealth of information. Quick intro: We added our sweet little girl to our family back in Sept, she is currently ~7months old, my son named her Artemis after the Greek Goddess . She is a very energetic and happy little girl.

In the last week we have been really struggling and I need some help/advice. When we picked her up from the breeder, she was on Purina Pro Plan; and did well on it, but I wanted to switch her to something better. After much research we decided to switch her to raw. Able to get frozen raw from a local store, it is a complete blend with beef, salmon, organ, etc. We transitioned her about 4ish weeks ago and everything was going great. Her coat was softer, she pooped way less and most important she really seemed to love it! We went though the first several pounds that I purchased, and went back to the same shop and purchased more of the same type.

On Sunday evening, Jan 22nd. Feed her the newly purchased food, and she ended up with her stomach bloating up (like noticeable bloating) shortly after eating and some diarrhea. I took her in to the urgent care vet because I was concerned of actual bloat with how much she expanded in her tummy. They check her all over, everything was fine and after a couple hours in the waiting room her bloat had significantly reduced, to almost back done to normal. We went home and thought - well - maybe she ate too fast.

The next couple of days she seemed fine. I had some of the previous purchased raw (same type, just purchased on different date). So I fed her that and mixed with the newly purchased stuff. On Thursday, Jan 26th - over night she had explosive diarrhea all over her crate, and on Friday throughout the day had some episodes as well as Friday & Sat. On Sunday ( 29th) I took her back into the urgent care vet as she had also started to have bloody diarrhea. They gave her fluids, metronidazole, and instructions to switch her to a bland diet of chicken and rice.

So that's where this finds us. I started her on Chicken/Rice on Sunday. I had her take the metronidazole on Sun & Mon AM. Her poops have now returned to normal (thankfully!). I have now noticed her bottom and top lips are bright red. So wondering --- does she have a sensitively to chicken (hasn't shown anything in the past) so I have switched her to Hamburger and Rice. Still has red lips, so now I'm thinking she might have problem with rice? OR - was in the metronidazole - hence why I haven't given her any past Monday AM.

Here is where I need some help. I'm at a loss to what to fed her now. She can't stay on the chicken/rice or burger/rice. I don't want to switch her back to the Purina. I am so very concerned to switch her back to the raw that I honestly think made her sick. I want to switch her to high quality kibble (Acana, Nature's Logic, Farmina, etc). But I don't know how to transition her. Normally would do a slow transition, but with all the issues on previous/current food, do I just start feeding her the new kibble? Should I cut the rice out and transition from straight chicken or burger? What are your thoughts on the red lips?

I feel so terrible if it was the raw food (and I honestly don't know what else it could have been). I so wanted to do the right move by switching to raw, but now I'm hesitant to go back to it.

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Here are some pics of our cute baby. Before the red lips - and after.

She could definitely be allergic to the chicken and rice, both are very common allergies.

Have you tried a probiotic for her??

A couple probiotics I give my dog are:

-Adored Beast brand- Gut Soothe
-Four Leaf Rover brand -Protect or Gut Guard


What brand of raw did you buy??

Ideally you rotate proteins at least 3-5 per month, I rotate thru 5 different raw formulas in 1 week for my dog.

I would recommend trying Turkey, Duck, or Sardine for proteins in the raw diet.

Maybe she just needs a probiotic now? And sounds like she is allergic to the rice and chicken(both are inflammatory foods), bone broth is good too.

Are you in Canada or US??

-Carna 4 is a good easy to digest oven baked kibble that has probiotics and digestive enzymes In it.

-Natures logic brand kibble also has probiotics in it too and great for allergies too.

Maybe if you give her a probiotic and then try a different brand of raw food and try her on the raw turkey formula or duck she might do better???

That’s what I would recommend, but if your not comfortable with raw just yet, try the Carna 4 brand OR Natures Logic brand.

 

[seckel119]

She could definitely be allergic to the chicken and rice, both are very common allergies.

Have you tried a probiotic for her??

A couple probiotics I give my dog are:

-Adored Beast brand- Gut Soothe
-Four Leaf Rover brand -Protect or Gut Guard


What brand of raw did you buy??

Ideally you rotate proteins at least 3-5 per month, I rotate thru 5 different raw formulas in 1 week for my dog.

I would recommend trying Turkey, Duck, or Sardine for proteins in the raw diet.

Maybe she just needs a probiotic now? And sounds like she is allergic to the rice and chicken(both are inflammatory foods), bone broth is good too.

Are you in Canada or US??

-Carna 4 is a good easy to digest oven baked kibble that has probiotics and digestive enzymes In it.

-Natures logic brand kibble also has probiotics in it too and great for allergies too.

Maybe if you give her a probiotic and then try a different brand of raw food and try her on the raw turkey formula or duck she might do better???

That’s what I would recommend, but if your not comfortable with raw just yet, try the Carna 4 brand OR Natures Logic brand.

Thank you for the note back. I thought about a probiotic as well. I was/am just concerned about adding too much new all at once. But maybe that's okay? Thank you for the recommendation on brands - I will be checking into those!

The brand of raw is called Titan Red. Screen shot of ingredients.

I probably should have done more research before starting on raw about rotating proteins. So thank you for that info.

She was on the Purina Pro Plan Chicken and Rice formula from baby til about 6ish months, and never showed an allergy to chicken or rice - but I'm thinking anything is possible to pop up.

I'm learning towards transitioning her to kibble; get her back stabilized for a while and then potentially start investigating raw again. After this last week and how sick she got - I'm a bit leery right now to back down the raw path. I also want to get the allergy screening done when we get into the vet (they are so far booked out!)

I am in the US. Carna is hard to get where we are. But I'm looking into Nature's Logic availability. Whichever kibble; going to steer clear of Chicken, Beef and Rice! Do you think it would be okay to go cold turkey transition to a new kibble; or should I try to transition slowly off the bland diet (even though this could be suspect for allergy with either the chicken, the rice or the beef)?

Thanks in advance for the help here! She is feeling oh so much better then Sat/Sun - I don't want to go back down that path. My poor baby!

 

[Bulldog2001]

Thank you for the note back. I thought about a probiotic as well. I was/am just concerned about adding too much new all at once. But maybe that's okay? Thank you for the recommendation on brands - I will be checking into those!

The brand of raw is called Titan Red. Screen shot of ingredients.
View attachment 123988

I probably should have done more research before starting on raw about rotating proteins. So thank you for that info.

She was on the Purina Pro Plan Chicken and Rice formula from baby til about 6ish months, and never showed an allergy to chicken or rice - but I'm thinking anything is possible to pop up.

I'm learning towards transitioning her to kibble; get her back stabilized for a while and then potentially start investigating raw again. After this last week and how sick she got - I'm a bit leery right now to back down the raw path. I also want to get the allergy screening done when we get into the vet (they are so far booked out!)

I am in the US. Carna is hard to get where we are. But I'm looking into Nature's Logic availability. Whichever kibble; going to steer clear of Chicken, Beef and Rice! Do you think it would be okay to go cold turkey transition to a new kibble; or should I try to transition slowly off the bland diet (even though this could be suspect for allergy with either the chicken, the rice or the beef)?

Thanks in advance for the help here! She is feeling oh so much better then Sat/Sun - I don't want to go back down that path. My poor baby!

I think I know why she reacted badly to the raw food you attached a photo of ingredients of.

‘Salmon By product’ is literally waste from salmon from the garbage!

Try a better quality raw. Stella and chewy, Vital Essentials, Primal, Darwin’s,
Try duck or turkey as proteins.


That’s was a low quality brand of raw food you got that made her sick.

As probiotics too.

Try her on full raw of one of those brands I just listed, super easy to digest and no fillers! That’s easy for her to digest.


A high quality raw is very unlikely to cause isssue, the one she was on was low quality.

 

[seckel119]

I think I know why she reacted badly to the raw food you attached a photo of ingredients of.

‘Salmon By product’ is literally waste from salmon from the garbage!

Try a better quality raw. Stella and chewy, Vital Essentials, Primal, Darwin’s,
Try duck or turkey as proteins.


That’s was a low quality brand of raw food you got that made her sick.

As probiotics too.

Try her on full raw of one of those brands I just listed, super easy to digest and no fillers! That’s easy for her to digest.


A high quality raw is very unlikely to cause isssue, the one she was on was low quality.

Oh.... I feel terrible now!!! I need to do better research for sure!! I will check into those brands of raw. Thank you so much!

 

[Bulldog2001]

Oh.... I feel terrible now!!! I need to do better research for sure!! I will check into those brands of raw. Thank you so much!

If it was my dog, I would get her off chicken and rice that she is likely allergic to and give her a probiotic and put her on a good quality raw diet OR natures logic kibble.

But I would try a good fresh raw diet(frozen that you just thaw in the fridge and feed it) cause it’s got the moisture in it too and especially turkey or duck or fish is the easiest to digest.

If your worried about the cold Turkey switch, I would just add a probiotic and then do immediately switch to a good food(the raw OR if you need kibble right now it’s Natures Logic I recommend for her). But try the good quality raw.

Also Primal now makes a gently cooked, it’s fish OR beef they have. It comes frozen and you just thaw it and feed it, but it’s more expensive than raw.

All these recommendations are way better and easily digestible for her.

The medication/antibiotics the vet gave her, my dog was on that for unexplained diarrhea(nothing in her diet changed, she was on kibble during this time), she improved the first couple days on the medication, then once the meds were done she got 10X worse!! I gave her the Adored Beast Brand Gut Soothe and in 2 days she was 100% back to normal and it worked way better than the meds from the vet and the probiotics doesn’t have side effects like the vet stuff.

I always have a jar of Adored Beast Gut Soothe probiotic in my fridge incase one of my dogs gets any digestion issue, it clears it up.

Since I switched them to raw(good quality), and rotate proteins, no digestion issue since. 👍

If you feel more comfortable with trying her on Natures Logic brand kibble, try Sardine, or Turkey for the protein. And you can just switch to it over a couple days. OR you can try her on a good quality Raw diet(one of the brands I recommended) and just switch her cold Turkey and add a probiotic until she is good digestion or until your comfortable.

But those fillers and waste products(and also “egg product” that’s waste from the garbage from any egg products), now I think you have the answer of why she got sick, but don’t worry as long as you don’t feed it again, you didn’t know it wasn’t good quality. Now at least you know there are high quality brands, and just to feed the good brands😊👍

Keep me updated, I’m happy to help!

 

[seckel119]

If it was my dog, I would get her off chicken and rice that she is likely allergic to and give her a probiotic and put her on a good quality raw diet OR natures logic kibble.

But I would try a good fresh raw diet(frozen that you just thaw in the fridge and feed it) cause it’s got the moisture in it too and especially turkey or duck or fish is the easiest to digest.

If your worried about the cold Turkey switch, I would just add a probiotic and then do immediately switch to a good food(the raw OR if you need kibble right now it’s Natures Logic I recommend for her). But try the good quality raw.

Also Primal now makes a gently cooked, it’s fish OR beef they have. It comes frozen and you just thaw it and feed it, but it’s more expensive than raw.

All these recommendations are way better and easily digestible for her.

The medication/antibiotics the vet gave her, my dog was on that for unexplained diarrhea(nothing in her diet changed, she was on kibble during this time), she improved the first couple days on the medication, then once the meds were done she got 10X worse!! I gave her the Adored Beast Brand Gut Soothe and in 2 days she was 100% back to normal and it worked way better than the meds from the vet and the probiotics doesn’t have side effects like the vet stuff.

I always have a jar of Adored Beast Gut Soothe probiotic in my fridge incase one of my dogs gets any digestion issue, it clears it up.

Since I switched them to raw(good quality), and rotate proteins, no digestion issue since. 👍

If you feel more comfortable with trying her on Natures Logic brand kibble, try Sardine, or Turkey for the protein. And you can just switch to it over a couple days. OR you can try her on a good quality Raw diet(one of the brands I recommended) and just switch her cold Turkey and add a probiotic until she is good digestion or until your comfortable.

But those fillers and waste products(and also “egg product” that’s waste from the garbage from any egg products), now I think you have the answer of why she got sick, but don’t worry as long as you don’t feed it again, you didn’t know it wasn’t good quality. Now at least you know there are high quality brands, and just to feed the good brands😊👍

Keep me updated, I’m happy to help!

Thank you - Yes, agreed... now I know how bad the quality was on the other stuff (it has been officially tossed out!). So... unfortunately I cannot find anything in stock in any local stores. But I have Stella & Chewy on order.... starting with the Turkey patties. I have the Four Leaf Rover probiotic on order as well. (going with expedited shipping, so fingers crossed here in a few days).

For the kibble - heading out to a store that potentially has some Nature's logic in stock. Fingers crossed.

Thank you for the help and advice.
Learning experience here for sure!

I will keep you updated.

 

[Bulldog2001]

Thank you - Yes, agreed... now I know how bad the quality was on the other stuff (it has been officially tossed out!). So... unfortunately I cannot find anything in stock in any local stores. But I have Stella & Chewy on order.... starting with the Turkey patties. I have the Four Leaf Rover probiotic on order as well. (going with expedited shipping, so fingers crossed here in a few days).

For the kibble - heading out to a store that potentially has some Nature's logic in stock. Fingers crossed.

Thank you for the help and advice.
Learning experience here for sure!

I will keep you updated.

That’s good, hopefully does well on the new stuff🙂👍

Was it the freeze dried or frozen Stella and chewy you ordered??

Which Probiotic did you order? Protect??
Probiotics are great for immune system and allergies.

Hope she starts feeling better soon, if you are gonna feed the kibble and Raw, I recommend doing Raw by itself for breakfast and for dinner is the kibble(they digest different so it’s easier for the dogs stomach when they are fed the raw in a different meal than the kibble, much easier to digest when they are mixed in the same meal).

Yes please keep me updated on how she does.

 

[seckel119]

That’s good, hopefully does well on the new stuff🙂👍

Was it the freeze dried or frozen Stella and chewy you ordered??

Which Probiotic did you order? Protect??
Probiotics are great for immune system and allergies.

Hope she starts feeling better soon, if you are gonna feed the kibble and Raw, I recommend doing Raw by itself for breakfast and for dinner is the kibble(they digest different so it’s easier for the dogs stomach when they are fed the raw in a different meal than the kibble, much easier to digest when they are mixed in the same meal).

Yes please keep me updated on how she does.

I ordered the Turkey frozen patties... not the freeze dried. I hope that was the correct ones? Looks like a few other protein options are the duck, rabbit and fish. Do you think once she is fully transitioned to her new food, the next order should be a different protein? Or should I stick with the turkey for ~ 1 month and then rotate?

For the probiotic it was the Four Leaf Rover Gut Guard. Which should get here tomorrow with expedited shipping. Yea!!

Good too know on the separate feedings for Raw and kibble, I will get that set up to do raw in the morning and kibble in the evening. She loves her food either way - so I don't expect any complaints from her

I was also able to locate the Nature's Logic kibble last night in stock, so will start that transition as well.

Outside of the slide redness on her lips/muzzle she is already feeling so so much better. Hoping for a smooth transition to the new food here, and back to feeling 100% soon!

Thank you for all your help and advice, and will keep you updated on progress. Fingers crossed this is the right path!

 

[Bulldog2001]

I ordered the Turkey frozen patties... not the freeze dried. I hope that was the correct ones? Looks like a few other protein options are the duck, rabbit and fish. Do you think once she is fully transitioned to her new food, the next order should be a different protein? Or should I stick with the turkey for ~ 1 month and then rotate?

For the probiotic it was the Four Leaf Rover Gut Guard. Which should get here tomorrow with expedited shipping. Yea!!

Good too know on the separate feedings for Raw and kibble, I will get that set up to do raw in the morning and kibble in the evening. She loves her food either way - so I don't expect any complaints from her

I was also able to locate the Nature's Logic kibble last night in stock, so will start that transition as well.

Outside of the slide redness on her lips/muzzle she is already feeling so so much better. Hoping for a smooth transition to the new food here, and back to feeling 100% soon!

Thank you for all your help and advice, and will keep you updated on progress. Fingers crossed this is the right path!

Yes the frozen is the one I recommended👍

Turkey is a good protein to start with!
After she is on it and doing well and her digestion is good, you should try the duck next. So if her digestion is good then the next time can be duck or fish whichever you want to try next, then the next time you need it, it can be a different protein(as long as digestion is ok).

If you feel more comfortable doing 1 full month of Turkey then Rotate proteins after that, it’s up to you🙂

That’s good you got the Gut Guard probiotic, that has slippery elm and other good foods in it to help soothe the digestive system. Really good for the sensitive dogs, and if they vomit or have digestion issue, it really helps!


That’s great you were able to get the Natures Logic, did you get the turkey formula or sardine?? I’m sure she will like it.


Glad she is feeling much better, definitely keep me updated!

 

[helsonwheels]

WELCOME to you & Artemis‼️

Bear in mind, anything that has the word By-Product is to avoid completely. Also rarely you see a puppy of that age with allergies especially to a raw meat. Also they are still protected with mom’s milk. I’m not saying it can’t happen but it’s rare. Don’t over supplement your dog. Start with the new food, give it a week or so, like that you can monitor if food agrees with Artemis. Just do the food first. If everything goes well then you can check off it’s not the food. Then add one supplement at a time. Do the same steps if no issue. And so on. Better to take your time n monitor any new product that’s introduced or else you’ll be back to square one. Just a thought 🙂