First post - toilet training/puppy pad advice needed

[LJJ86]

Hi all,

I found this forum randomly through Googling and it made me laugh so much with all the problems everyone has with their EB puppies - we have every single one of them also!

But I was hoping for some advice on a toilet training mystery that has cropped up recently.

We have a 5.5 month old EB, Jasper. He is a rescue puppy from a European puppy mill so came to us at approx. 4 months basically completely untrained, he had never even been in a house before.

He is getting on ok with toilet training when we are in the house, as long as you get up literally the second he gets up and goes anywhere near the back door -if he gets to the door before you he will just squat and pee without even waiting. Once he is out in the garden he will pretty much go every time and we give him the 'wee wees' command and praise.

We have a small house with two adjoining downstairs rooms, and when we are not there (nighttime and working) he is confined to the dining room with two baby gates - the door to the garden is also from there. When we leave him alone we leave a puppy pad by the garden door - we have put one there since we first had him to try and stop the 'insta pee' accidents and he was praised for making it to the pad when he was smaller.

He did seem to be getting it and we seemed to be waking up or coming home to accidents only on the pad, rather than scattered around the room - which is fine by me if he can't hold it. But recently he has taken to peeing/pooping when left alone behind the baby gate that divides the two rooms and not using the pad at all. Yesterday he even walked over to that spot while we were both in the room and peed.

I clean the spot with enzyme cleaner and the steam cleaner and don't make a fuss either way of it happening - I just can't work out why this suddenly is happening? What else can I do to stop him deliberately peeing there instead of the pad? We have (mostly) successfully deterred him from furniture chewing with vinegar as he hates the smell, would that help?

Hesitant to crate him as I have no experience of crate training and his other behaviours when left (chewing etc) seem to be reducing now, but if it is the last resort I am open to learning.

Thanks all!

 

[ddnene]

Crate training is extremely easy... it does really help w/the potty training. But my last two dogs I put a bell on a string and placed it on the inside door handle of our outside door. I would ring the bell every time I would take the dogs out for potty, so NOW Willow will ring the bell to let me know she needs to go out. It doesn't seem to work on all the bulldogs, Walter will just stand at the door... Lol

For the pee spot, we have some stuff called Natures Miracle urine destroyer... it has natural enzymes that seem to remove the urine smell. Or if he hates the vinegar smell I would use that on the spot.

This thread may have some ideas to help you get started...
http://www.englishbulldognews.com/f...havioral/54002-crate-training-6-month-eb.html

 

[Lalaloopsie]

Sorry, but as far as I know crates are used only in Americarest of the world usually doesn’t use it and in Europe or UK it would be considered rather an animal cruelty to lock dog in small space sorry to say this...no offence please...
for the new peeing place - move the pad to the spot he chose. Or put 2 - one in old place, one in a new place.
For now its not realistic to expect him to go to the pad or yard on his own every time yet. In the morning you must actually jump out of bed like a rocket as soon as you hear him to wake up, grab him and carry him out or put n pad, gently hold him there (if it’s pad) saying “make a wee”, and when he does, give him treat. You have around 5 mins after he woke up, they usually don’t wee immediately. Yes, it’s inconvenience, but the more insistent you are, the better and sooner is the result.
You must remind him regularly about peeing, as at the moment his bladder is full, it’s too late, he can’t wait. So, every 30 mins you should put him on a pad and say “make a wee”. After feeding or drinking you should do the same. After you come back home, put him on pad etc.
Pooping is a bit more difficult, as they don’t want to poop on pad usually, you have to watch him and if he didn’t poop after waking up or after breakfast outside, you must watch like a hawk, if you see him looking for a spot - sniffing, walking in circles, heading to his favourite spot behind gate or what he usually does before pooping, you must grab him and take him out.
In general, he cannot remember yet that he must go to pad or outside.
I dont know how much time you have, because usually it’s recommended to get a puppy when you have vacations, as When you leave for work, you cannot expect him to go to pad himself. If you leave for a whole day, may be someone can come in the middle of the day and take him out or put him on pad.

 

[LJJ86]

Crate training is extremely easy... it does really help w/the potty training. But my last two dogs I put a bell on a string and placed it on the inside door handle of our outside door. I would ring the bell every time I would take the dogs out for potty, so NOW Willow will ring the bell to let me know she needs to go out. It doesn't seem to work on all the bulldogs, Walter will just stand at the door... Lol

For the pee spot, we have some stuff called Natures Miracle urine destroyer... it has natural enzymes that seem to remove the urine smell. Or if he hates the vinegar smell I would use that on the spot.

This thread may have some ideas to help you get started...
http://www.englishbulldognews.com/f...havioral/54002-crate-training-6-month-eb.html

I saw the bell on a string idea which seems really good - but he is such a chewer/stealer at the moment I would be worried he would just pull down the string. I was struggling to think of any alternative he could be given that he could reach to use but not just chew/pull off the wall?!

Oh the joys of puppies!

Sorry, but as far as I know crates are used only in Americarest of the world usually doesn’t use it and in Europe or UK it would be considered rather an animal cruelty to lock dog in small space sorry to say this...no offence please...
for the new peeing place - move the pad to the spot he chose. Or put 2 - one in old place, one in a new place.
For now its not realistic to expect him to go to the pad or yard on his own every time yet. In the morning you must actually jump out of bed like a rocket as soon as you hear him to wake up, grab him and carry him out or put n pad, gently hold him there (if it’s pad) saying “make a wee”, and when he does, give him treat. You have around 5 mins after he woke up, they usually don’t wee immediately. Yes, it’s inconvenience, but the more insistent you are, the better and sooner is the result.
You must remind him regularly about peeing, as at the moment his bladder is full, it’s too late, he can’t wait. So, every 30 mins you should put him on a pad and say “make a wee”. After feeding or drinking you should do the same. After you come back home, put him on pad etc.
Pooping is a bit more difficult, as they don’t want to poop on pad usually, you have to watch him and if he didn’t poop after waking up or after breakfast outside, you must watch like a hawk, if you see him looking for a spot - sniffing, walking in circles, heading to his favourite spot behind gate or what he usually does before pooping, you must grab him and take him out.
In general, he cannot remember yet that he must go to pad or outside.
I dont know how much time you have, because usually it’s recommended to get a puppy when you have vacations, as When you leave for work, you cannot expect him to go to pad himself. If you leave for a whole day, may be someone can come in the middle of the day and take him out or put him on pad.

Thanks for your feedback.

When we are here all day (weekends or not at work) he needs to be watched but he reliably goes outside pretty much every time unless we don't notice him going to the door.

He also has a pretty good routine that he will have breakfast as soon as I get up, then go outside immediately to potty, then I will give him a couple more chances outside before I leave for work and he will usually go at least once more. He is left from approximately 9 till 2 when my b/f gets home to feed and let him out so although it is a while it's not as long as overnight. I don't think it is so much that he is unable to hold it until I get to him in the morning, as when I clean it when I get up the pee patch is stone cold, and he has had multiple occasions of being dry all through the night/time he is left alone since we've had him - we thought we'd cracked it until just recently!

This is why I'm so perplexed that he suddenly doesn't want to go on the pad when left - he seems to have the ability to hold it throughout, and if he can't manage it yet, in the past he has seemed to have learned to go to the back door/pad to go - so him choosing a different spot out of nowhere is what I'm trying to fix. He went through a week or so when we first got him of pooping behind the door to upstairs overnight (still peed on the pad!) but he stopped that fairly quickly. As he gets older obviously I want to phase out the pad entirely so I don't want to just keep adding pads wherever he feels like pottying next.

 

[helsonwheels]

Sorry, but as far as I know crates are used only in Americarest of the world usually doesn’t use it and in Europe or UK it would be considered rather an animal cruelty to lock dog in small space sorry to say this...no offence please...
for the new peeing place - move the pad to the spot he chose. Or put 2 - one in old place, one in a new place.
For now its not realistic to expect him to go to the pad or yard on his own every time yet. In the morning you must actually jump out of bed like a rocket as soon as you hear him to wake up, grab him and carry him out or put n pad, gently hold him there (if it’s pad) saying “make a wee”, and when he does, give him treat. You have around 5 mins after he woke up, they usually don’t wee immediately. Yes, it’s inconvenience, but the more insistent you are, the better and sooner is the result.
You must remind him regularly about peeing, as at the moment his bladder is full, it’s too late, he can’t wait. So, every 30 mins you should put him on a pad and say “make a wee”. After feeding or drinking you should do the same. After you come back home, put him on pad etc.
Pooping is a bit more difficult, as they don’t want to poop on pad usually, you have to watch him and if he didn’t poop after waking up or after breakfast outside, you must watch like a hawk, if you see him looking for a spot - sniffing, walking in circles, heading to his favourite spot behind gate or what he usually does before pooping, you must grab him and take him out.
In general, he cannot remember yet that he must go to pad or outside.
I dont know how much time you have, because usually it’s recommended to get a puppy when you have vacations, as When you leave for work, you cannot expect him to go to pad himself. If you leave for a whole day, may be someone can come in the middle of the day and take him out or put him on pad.

Weeeeeelllll, if you had Duke trust me you would use your kennel. I never used a crate in my life. Nyala took like 6 months n the door stayed opened. She just like going in there to sleep. But Duke....pffft that’s another story. He rams in my bedroom door to get to my shoes. Now I need to shut the door completely. So when I leave he’s in the kennel. Safer for him or should I say my shoes!

 

[LJJ86]

OK so last night... i forgot to put down a pad before I went to bed. Did he pee by the baby gate? No. Did he pee where the pad was SUPPOSED to be...yes.


He caught me out. :D:D

 

[Clermont]

from reading everything you've described, it sounds like he has the basic idea. He goes to the back door to pee, and peed by the baby gate, so he's on the right track.

 

[Manydogs]

Weeeeeelllll, if you had Duke trust me you would use your kennel. I never used a crate in my life. Nyala took like 6 months n the door stayed opened. She just like going in there to sleep. But Duke....pffft that’s another story. He rams in my bedroom door to get to my shoes. Now I need to shut the door completely. So when I leave he’s in the kennel. Safer for him or should I say my shoes!

If crates are not allowed to be used, perhaps it was because of "so called breeders" who leave the poor dogs in crates all their lives. Using a crate, to me, is more for dog's safety,when he is left alone(not finding something that you may have missed(able to chew and swallow...) and it surely does help with potty training. Mine rarely ever pottied in their crate..once trustworthy,they didn't need the crate.They only slept in it at night(would whine when they had to go..) and during day when I had to leave-they had a pen around the crate.

 

[Lalaloopsie]

Hey guys, I’m not trying to offend or make you feel guilty, I understand that this is tradition here:Dthere are definitely safety pluses in crating dogs, but as it was never widely used in Europe, feels a bit unusual for me. Maximum isolation people in most European countries will do is locking dog in one room/kitchen, if they are prone to poo/pee accidents or chew shoes or carpets.

 

[Manydogs]

[MENTION=15780]Lalaloopsie[/MENTION] No problem at all! Just explaining crate use does help-but not for punishment, or excessive use!! Your input is NOT taken as offensive by me! Love hearing your opinions,and knowledge!

 

[helsonwheels]

If crates are not allowed to be used, perhaps it was because of "so called breeders" who leave the poor dogs in crates all their lives. Using a crate, to me, is more for dog's safety,when he is left alone(not finding something that you may have missed(able to chew and swallow...) and it surely does help with potty training. Mine rarely ever pottied in their crate..once trustworthy,they didn't need the crate.They only slept in it at night(would whine when they had to go..) and during day when I had to leave-they had a pen around the crate.

I’m all for kennels if needed.

 

[pauline]

My puppy Hobson hated his crate he wouldn't settle in it, and would bark and cry but we now have a pen which he loves. It is sooooo big he can walk about and play in it. We use this pen at night and if we have to leave him alone, which means he is safe and so is our furniture. He will go and get into his pen of his own choosing when I am getting my jobs done around the house, he loves it. At night we say bed time and he trots into his pen and snuggles up in his bed. Hes 13 weeks old now and house trained, he is such a good boy we love him so much.

 

[Manydogs]

When mine were little pups, I used a combo of the crate,surrounded by a pen, if I was not there to keep an "eye" on things!! They didn't mind a bit!

 

[Dakota Bully]

Hey guys, I’m not trying to offend or make you feel guilty, I understand that this is tradition here:Dthere are definitely safety pluses in crating dogs, but as it was never widely used in Europe, feels a bit unusual for me. Maximum isolation people in most European countries will do is locking dog in one room/kitchen, if they are prone to poo/pee accidents or chew shoes or carpets.

I don't think anyone is offended by what you are saying, or at least they shouldn't be. You try to help others because of your love for this breed and wanting to help other bully owners. It's all any of us can do. Thank you for that! I love hearing some of the different things from you and your perspective and seeing your little cutie! It's great when someone can get all kinds of ideals from others so that they can figure out what works best for them. Kenneling works best for me, but I do have one female that doesn't get along with other females. During the day, if no one else is at home while I work, she gets to have the very large bathroom with her doggie bed and tons of toys. She is the one who usually gets to sleep with us because she gets smaller spurts with us during the day. So I guess I use both ways and take each dog's needs into consideration. You keep posting how you do things there. Some old dogs need new tricks

 

[LJJ86]

THanks for your advice all. Unfortunately we are no further along it seems....

For example last night, completely dry right through. Other nights, multiple poops, pees nowhere near the pad....argh!

He is also still peeing/pooping when we aren't in the house, and we now have to keep him in one room with us when we ARE in, else he will sneak into the next room and poop wherever he likes (always pooping in the same spot....nowhere near the back door...why?!)

We are still doing everything "by the book", taking him out every time he even looks like he might need to, using the 'wee wees' command, praise as soon as he goes outside, staying with him when he is stubborn until he finally goes....etc.

I think I am going to have to seriously research crating as this just feels less like "puppy accidents" and more like "pooping where i like free for all" :D

So hesitant to start crating now though as I feel like his age will make it difficult? And although he seperation-poops he is not a cryer or barker when we leave him and god knows I dont want to add that to the bag of tricks!