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Thread: Recurring edema in paw

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    Default Recurring edema in paw

    Hello all! I'm new to this forum but am reaching out in the hopes that someone may be able to provide some recommendations that may help. I apologize in advance for this long post.

    Our male EB, Gumbo, is turning 11 years old soon. He's generally always been in pretty good health and we've never had any major issues or complications with him since we adopted him when he was four months old. However, about 5 years ago, he developed what we thought was an inter-digital cyst on his left front paw. It kind of showed up overnight and started to get larger and larger, even with Epsom salt foot soaks. Eventually, it burst and started oozing. We took him to the vet and they recommended surgery to remove the cyst. He had the surgery and for the first couple of weeks, all seemed well. Then, he had another growth that developed in the exact same area that was really irritating him. We went back to the vet and they though it could either be a suture knot that didn't dissolve completely or maybe the full cyst sack was not removed and had come back. So, they recommended another exploratory surgery which we agreed with. Again, all was well for a while but then the spot came back with a vengeance. This time, it appeared like a large cyst but always seemed to have a small opening where fluid would ooze from. We ended up taking him to another vet for a consultation and they thought that the cyst had come back and again, recommended surgery to remove it. After this third surgery, his paw seemed to do well for a while longer. But like all of the times before, it eventually came back. This time, his entire area between his toes swells up and the bottom side of his foot swells as well. This will happen every two weeks or so. His foot will be perfectly fine one day, then he'll wake up the next day with this red swelling. His foot will be 2-3 times the normal size to where he can barely walk on it. It will stay swollen for a while until it eventually ruptures and what appears to be some type of lymph fluid drains out. Once this happens, the swelling will gradually go down until the foot returns to normal, until it starts all over again.

    We've tried everything we can think of. We've had the three prior surgeries and at his age, we're not wanting to put him through another one, especially since that didn't seem to resolve the issue anyway. We've done Epsom salt soaks, used Duoxo pads to clean the area daily, used Vetericyn spray, charcoal paste soaks, and several other things. The only time it's seemed to really clear up for any length of time is the two times he was on an oral antibiotic for 30 days, each time. We're not really sure what else to try and wanted to see if anyone may have ever experienced something like this before or may have some suggestions. We're willing to try most anything at this point if it will give our boy some relief.

    Thanks in advance and if you have any questions at all, let me know.
    Jennifer
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Looks very sore, sorry to hear about this. I would try soaking the paw in a tea coloured povidone iodine ( Betadine ) bath for 10 minutes at a time daily for a few weeks. You can also put on some antibiotic cream after eg. Neosporin, Polysporin, Nu-Stock or Manuka honey with a UMF of 10 or better , and then a sock taped on if Gumbo licks it.

    Vets also prescribe for dogs with multiple cysts retinoids such as isotretinoin (Accutane), 1-2 mg/kg orally every 12 hours, but they have a lot of side effects such as liver toxicity and dry eyes, and Gumbo keeps having the same cyst recur, so I don't think it will help him.

    He probably needs a culture done of the cyst to see what's growing, and then treat it with another long term course of antibiotics again.

    I would give him some probiotics since he's already been on a lot of antibiotics, such as milk kefir, live sauerkraut, or commercial doggie probiotics like Proviable DC or Probiotic Miracle.

    Could he have an allergy to the food he's eating? What food is he on?

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollys Owner View Post
    Looks very sore, sorry to hear about this. I would try soaking the paw in a tea coloured povidone iodine ( Betadine ) bath for 10 minutes at a time daily for a few weeks. You can also put on some antibiotic cream after eg. Neosporin, Polysporin, Nu-Stock or Manuka honey with a UMF of 10 or better , and then a sock taped on if Gumbo licks it.

    Vets also prescribe for dogs with multiple cysts retinoids such as isotretinoin (Accutane), 1-2 mg/kg orally every 12 hours, but they have a lot of side effects such as liver toxicity and dry eyes, and Gumbo keeps having the same cyst recur, so I don't think it will help him.

    He probably needs a culture done of the cyst to see what's growing, and then treat it with another long term course of antibiotics again.

    I would give him some probiotics since he's already been on a lot of antibiotics, such as milk kefir, live sauerkraut, or commercial doggie probiotics like Proviable DC or Probiotic Miracle.

    Could he have an allergy to the food he's eating? What food is he on?
    Hi Dolly's Owner,
    Thank you for the additional recommendations. I'd tried diluted Betadine soaks before but it was some time ago. However, I did not follow them up with any antibiotic ointments so I'll give that a try. I just ordered some foot medical bandage booties from Amazon that I'll try out after soaking and applying the ointment. Hopefully that will keep him from licking his paw.

    Gumbo already suffers from dry-eye and receives Optimmune ointment once daily. He just had a full annual exam with senior blood labs as well as ultrasounds and several X-rays to rule out any underlying issues such as tumors, etc. All of his bloodwork, urinalysis, scans and tests came back normal. He was diagnosed with Cushing's disease about a year ago and is on Mitotane for that. He also takes Rimadyl every other day for arthritis pain. We've also used Apoquel seasonally when needed for allergies. Other than these medications, the only other items we give him are regular probiotics and supplements such as Omega 3's, salmon oil, Glucosamine Chondroitin with MSM, melatonin, Coq10, etc.

    None of the vets we've been to have ever done a culture of the area so I'll recommend that. He went to the same vet for 10 years and then we moved and have been going to our new vet for almost a year. We did go to two other vets in the past couple of years hoping maybe they could figure out the issue and offer a treatment plan but no luck. I'm thinking about seeing if our regular vet will give a referral to the UGA Vet Hospital to see their specialist there. It's worth a try.

    The only food he's eaten since we've had him is Taste of the Wild (High Prairie) and sometimes we'll alternate that with Grandma Lucy's Artisan dehydrated pork recipe just to change it up a bit.

    While writing this response, I went to let him out to potty and his foot popped. That usually helps to relieve a lot of the pressure and it starts to get better. So hopefully with doing some of what you suggested above and draining some of the fluid, he'll start to feel better until we can get to the root of the issue and maybe prevent it from continuing to happen.

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferMac View Post
    Hi Dolly's Owner,
    Thank you for the additional recommendations. I'd tried diluted Betadine soaks before but it was some time ago. However, I did not follow them up with any antibiotic ointments so I'll give that a try. I just ordered some foot medical bandage booties from Amazon that I'll try out after soaking and applying the ointment. Hopefully that will keep him from licking his paw.

    Gumbo already suffers from dry-eye and receives Optimmune ointment once daily. He just had a full annual exam with senior blood labs as well as ultrasounds and several X-rays to rule out any underlying issues such as tumors, etc. All of his bloodwork, urinalysis, scans and tests came back normal. He was diagnosed with Cushing's disease about a year ago and is on Mitotane for that. He also takes Rimadyl every other day for arthritis pain. We've also used Apoquel seasonally when needed for allergies. Other than these medications, the only other items we give him are regular probiotics and supplements such as Omega 3's, salmon oil, Glucosamine Chondroitin with MSM, melatonin, Coq10, etc.

    None of the vets we've been to have ever done a culture of the area so I'll recommend that. He went to the same vet for 10 years and then we moved and have been going to our new vet for almost a year. We did go to two other vets in the past couple of years hoping maybe they could figure out the issue and offer a treatment plan but no luck. I'm thinking about seeing if our regular vet will give a referral to the UGA Vet Hospital to see their specialist there. It's worth a try.

    The only food he's eaten since we've had him is Taste of the Wild (High Prairie) and sometimes we'll alternate that with Grandma Lucy's Artisan dehydrated pork recipe just to change it up a bit.

    While writing this response, I went to let him out to potty and his foot popped. That usually helps to relieve a lot of the pressure and it starts to get better. So hopefully with doing some of what you suggested above and draining some of the fluid, he'll start to feel better until we can get to the root of the issue and maybe prevent it from continuing to happen.
    Mitotane is a chemotherapy drug, so that could be impairing his immunity so that he's not healing as fast as he should. That could be why it keeps coming back, but just in case he has food allergies I wonder if you could try switching to a high pressure processed (HPP) frozen raw food such as Stella & Chewy's, Vital Essentials Raw, Primal Pet. I wouldn't go for a plain non treated frozen raw since he may not be as able to fight off the live bacteria in there as a dog not on chemo.

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollys Owner View Post
    Mitotane is a chemotherapy drug, so that could be impairing his immunity so that he's not healing as fast as he should. That could be why it keeps coming back, but just in case he has food allergies I wonder if you could try switching to a high pressure processed (HPP) frozen raw food such as Stella & Chewy's, Vital Essentials Raw, Primal Pet. I wouldn't go for a plain non treated frozen raw since he may not be as able to fight off the live bacteria in there as a dog not on chemo.
    He's been on the Mitotane for his Cushing's for almost a year but the issues with his foot have been going on for almost six years now. I agree that may be contributing to why it keeps recurring faster lately though.

    I've started looking into a raw diet to see if that may help. There is a local holistic pet supply near us that I was already planning to visit tomorrow to see what options they have available and what they recommend based on his weight.

    Thanks again for the additional information.

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferMac View Post
    He's been on the Mitotane for his Cushing's for almost a year but the issues with his foot have been going on for almost six years now. I agree that may be contributing to why it keeps recurring faster lately though.

    I've started looking into a raw diet to see if that may help. There is a local holistic pet supply near us that I was already planning to visit tomorrow to see what options they have available and what they recommend based on his weight.

    Thanks again for the additional information.
    Hope he gets better soon! Try duck ,rabbit or kangaroo first since he's not very likely to react to those proteins.

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferMac View Post
    He's been on the Mitotane for his Cushing's for almost a year but the issues with his foot have been going on for almost six years now. I agree that may be contributing to why it keeps recurring faster lately though.

    I've started looking into a raw diet to see if that may help. There is a local holistic pet supply near us that I was already planning to visit tomorrow to see what options they have available and what they recommend based on his weight.

    Thanks again for the additional information.
    My Duke that passed away not to long ago had indigital cyst for months. I’ve done n tried everything and them indigital cyst still came back over n over. One day I was looking for something in my closet I had for years. I noticed I had an old can of Bag Balm. BUT it absolutely need to get the original bag balm. There are many BB now out there. Hands, feet, face etc.. here’s a photo of the original BB. I recall many years ago my youngest son had extremely bad eczema on his feet that became blisters n bleed and doctors gave all sorts of cream etc. Someone gave me this BB and I swear his eczema disappeared n to this day never came back. He’s 30yrs old. I used the old can I found n put it on my Duke’s cyst and put his little socks on as he would lick it off. Took about a couple days for the cyst to burst n another couple days to heal. Another would pop up n I would repeat the treatment. Eventually his paws were healed. Like yours cyst would just appear out of nowhere. Duke had anxiety and would lick his paws for no reason. He ate 100% raw, had him tested and I knew the test were going to come back negative which did. He was simply a paw licker. He also didn’t have yeast or anything. You should try it as yours is 11yrs old n you don’t want to use meds or chemicals at that age.

    https://intothegloss.com/2015/03/bag-balm-uses/

    Make sure it’s the one that has the image of a cow’s udder on the side of the tin. The others WONT work.

    -f8d24919-0447-4bf9-af50-8368298787e4-jpeg

    BTW, there’s absolutely nothing you can do for IC. No real treatment that’s vet can give you. Web feet dogs are prone to have IC. But you sure can keep them at bay. All about maintenance

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollys Owner View Post
    Hope he gets better soon! Try duck ,rabbit or kangaroo first since he's not very likely to react to those proteins.
    Me too! Thanks again for your help. Just ordered some more Betadine and some Manuka honey and Nu-Stock to try.

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by helsonwheels View Post
    My Duke that passed away not to long ago had indigital cyst for months. I’ve done n tried everything and them indigital cyst still came back over n over. One day I was looking for something in my closet I had for years. I noticed I had an old can of Bag Balm. BUT it absolutely need to get the original bag balm. There are many BB now out there. Hands, feet, face etc.. here’s a photo of the original BB. I recall many years ago my youngest son had extremely bad eczema on his feet that became blisters n bleed and doctors gave all sorts of cream etc. Someone gave me this BB and I swear his eczema disappeared n to this day never came back. He’s 30yrs old. I used the old can I found n put it on my Duke’s cyst and put his little socks on as he would lick it off. Took about a couple days for the cyst to burst n another couple days to heal. Another would pop up n I would repeat the treatment. Eventually his paws were healed. Like yours cyst would just appear out of nowhere. Duke had anxiety and would lick his paws for no reason. He ate 100% raw, had him tested and I knew the test were going to come back negative which did. He was simply a paw licker. He also didn’t have yeast or anything. You should try it as yours is 11yrs old n you don’t want to use meds or chemicals at that age.

    https://intothegloss.com/2015/03/bag-balm-uses/

    Make sure it’s the one that has the image of a cow’s udder on the side of the tin. The others WONT work.

    -f8d24919-0447-4bf9-af50-8368298787e4-jpeg

    BTW, there’s absolutely nothing you can do for IC. No real treatment that’s vet can give you. Web feet dogs are prone to have IC. But you sure can keep them at bay. All about maintenance
    Bag balm has 0.3% of an antiseptic named hydroxyquinoline sulfate, over 10 times as much as Trimo San vaginal jelly which has 0.025%, so I guess it's quite potent. Plus the drawing actions of petrolatum,lanolin and parrafin. I would say it's good for a normal interdigital cyst, but if you look at the picture of Gumbo's foot, it looks so severe that I wouldn't use the bag balm until you get to maintenance stage.

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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    I have had this same recurring issue w/my Walter... it's been SO frustrating. I'm actually starting him a trial on a raw diet, I have done everything else...

    "What we once enjoyed and deeply loved, we can never lose, for all that we love deeply becomes a part of us." Helen Keller
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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Welcome Jen and Gumbo... Dolly’s owner have given great advice.

    I think going raw will help as well.

    Our first boy had a lot of paw issues and it all stopped when we started feeding raw.


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    Default Re: Recurring edema in paw

    Quote Originally Posted by helsonwheels View Post
    My Duke that passed away not to long ago had indigital cyst for months. I’ve done n tried everything and them indigital cyst still came back over n over. One day I was looking for something in my closet I had for years. I noticed I had an old can of Bag Balm. BUT it absolutely need to get the original bag balm. There are many BB now out there. Hands, feet, face etc.. here’s a photo of the original BB. I recall many years ago my youngest son had extremely bad eczema on his feet that became blisters n bleed and doctors gave all sorts of cream etc. Someone gave me this BB and I swear his eczema disappeared n to this day never came back. He’s 30yrs old. I used the old can I found n put it on my Duke’s cyst and put his little socks on as he would lick it off. Took about a couple days for the cyst to burst n another couple days to heal. Another would pop up n I would repeat the treatment. Eventually his paws were healed. Like yours cyst would just appear out of nowhere. Duke had anxiety and would lick his paws for no reason. He ate 100% raw, had him tested and I knew the test were going to come back negative which did. He was simply a paw licker. He also didn’t have yeast or anything. You should try it as yours is 11yrs old n you don’t want to use meds or chemicals at that age.

    https://intothegloss.com/2015/03/bag-balm-uses/

    Make sure it’s the one that has the image of a cow’s udder on the side of the tin. The others WONT work.

    -f8d24919-0447-4bf9-af50-8368298787e4-jpeg

    BTW, there’s absolutely nothing you can do for IC. No real treatment that’s vet can give you. Web feet dogs are prone to have IC. But you sure can keep them at bay. All about maintenance
    Thanks for the additional tips. I'm going to try a few different things and see if it gives him any relief. He's feeling better now that it popped and relieved the pressure. The swelling is going down but have to keep it cleaned so no infection sets in. I'm hoping I can do some things to prevent it from happening so often and getting so severe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ddnene View Post
    I have had this same recurring issue w/my Walter... it's been SO frustrating. I'm actually starting him a trial on a raw diet, I have done everything else...
    I'm going to give it a try as well and see if it helps any.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Welcome Jen and Gumbo... Dolly’s owner have given great advice.

    I think going raw will help as well.

    Our first boy had a lot of paw issues and it all stopped when we started feeding raw.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the welcome. I'm going to give raw a try and see if helps, along with some of the other recommendations. Hopefully it gives him some relief.

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