Does this soundlike a tumor or did I poison him?

2KwayzeeDawgs

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I had to put my almost 10 yr old English bulldog Winston down last week.
It was sorta sudden. He was put on low dose Phenobarbitol for seizures, then deteriorated and had a massive seizure and has to be intubated and not lucid and I made the hard decision.
Im struggling with this cause I feel like I poisoned him with the phenobarbitol. However, looking back I see this past year he had changed a little and I wonder if it was a tumor that was causing a bunch of issues that created the perfect storm.

The past year I had noticed him laying on the couch, panting with his eyes closed for an hour. He did this a lot. I wonder if he was trying to cool down his brain cause it was changing? He has had ear infections off and on, but they had cleared up by the time he died. In May I put him on Apoquel and it was working, but when he had the grand mal I stopped. In June he had his first seizure, a grand mal. After that he had 4 smaller seizures. Looking back I recall several times where he left puddles on the couch and I think he might have actually had a seizure and just didnt see it. I also recall him being hard to wake and limp. After the 4th seizure, his vet said if he had one more shed medicate him. In the November his blood work was PERFECT. In the past 4 months his tongue was turning blue after eating and at the vets. He also was walking around at night, like he couldnt get comfy. Last week he had a small seizure and I took him to the vets the next day. She put him (51 lb) on 1/2 Phenobarbitol pill (97 mg) twice a day. I gave him the meds and he was okay the first day, then day 2 and 3 he vomitted, and slept all day, I had to spoon feed him, he could not stand well. his eyes became weird and finally he stopped eating and I rushed him to the ER. where they gave him supportive care 2 days and then had a massive seizure. They struggled to intubate him and he was in and out of consciousness and I ran down and signed the papers and said goodbye.

Im struggling about whether the pills poisoned him or there was an underlying issue (blue tongue and weird panting) like a tumor that the pills just triggered.
I guess Im heartbroken and looking for answers.
TYIA
 

sisters3

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[MENTION=3159]2KwayzeeDawgs[/MENTION] Oh I am so very, very sorry for your loss!!! It is apparent that you love Winston with all of your heart!!!! That LOVE is what gave you the strength to do what was the most compassionate thing for Winston, I truly believe that!!! Part of your grief, I believe, is to go back over everything.....which you DID ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!! Don't ever forget that.

I am not an expert, but I don't think I have to be to say that you did everything that you could and in the end your LOVE what the brightest light that Winston saw. God Bless you for taking such amazing care of your pup in the face of such a difficult time and decision.

Sending our prayers and big bully hugs your way!!!

Sue and Joey
 
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2KwayzeeDawgs

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2BullyMama

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So very sorry for your loss and his sudden passing, such a horrible decision to have to be faced with, but you did right by him and all you could do to help.

You could have a necropsy done to determine the cause and see if there was a tumor, but it sounds more like his heart was struggling- panting, uncomfortable at night, blue tongue all leads me to think heart issues.

Sending you many hugs and prayers... he is a vert handsome bulldog boy!


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Manydogs

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[MENTION=3159]2KwayzeeDawgs[/MENTION] I am so sorry about your baby. That small a dose of Phenobarb would not have caused his death. I am guessing he had a brain tumor, as I had a German Shepherd,who at 1 yr. old, died of a brain tumor. She started out with an occasional seizure, then as it progressed,it got worse and worse. We kept upping the dose to try and calm the seizures, but eventually nothing worked. She lost all controls,and there was nothing more to be done. I feel you did the right thing, for your boy. It is so scary and horrible to watch them suffer, when nothing can be done. One of our members did go above and beyond for her boy, but most of us can not.
We all feel guilty when we lose one, but we do the best we can for our little friends. You will see him again one day.
 

Lalaloopsie

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For me you’re descriptions look like he could have brain tumour. But the most important you definitely didn’t poison him with phenobarbital, he died from brain swelling caused by epileptic status (it is what you described like multiple seizures one after another). Epistatus is a dangerous condition which is epileptic seizure after seizure and eventually brain swells as a result of non-stop multiple chaotic electric discharges, immediate cause of death is brain swelling and pressure on bran stem where breathing and heart beating centres are located. People with epilepsy also can die as a result of epistatus, that’s why seizures are dangerous and should be stopped with meds.
If he died of poisoning with phenobarbital he would slip first into coma, and he wouldn’t have had any seizures. You usually cannot have seizures while in coma. The fact he still had seizures in that condition shows that there was other reason causing seizures and even such a powerful med couldn’t stop them. Looks more like a brain tumour.
Im so very sorry for your loss. He was so beautiful. But there is no fault in your actions. Unfortunately, this can happen, especially in elder dogs.
 

helsonwheels

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I am so sorry. Such a hard decision no one wants to make.

Why the vet gave Phenobarbitol to an EB when side effects include a decreased level of consciousness along with a decreased effort to breathe. Don’t understand that part.
 

Lalaloopsie

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I am so sorry. Such a hard decision no one wants to make.

Why the vet gave Phenobarbitol to an EB when side effects include a decreased level of consciousness along with a decreased effort to breathe. Don’t understand that part.


Phenobarbital is still used as anti seizure medication even for people. It is powerful and quite safe anti seizure med. Nowadays for people there are a lot of other newer meds, but for dogs it is very common prescription. Actually, it’s first choice medicine for epilepsy in dogs. Many of anti seizure medicine can decrease level of consciousness and suppress breathing, as their action is decreasing electric activity of brain.
Dose was safe and and 4 times smaller than maximum dose. Vet did nothing wrong.
 

helsonwheels

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Phenobarbital is still used as anti seizure medication even for people. It is powerful and quite safe anti seizure med. Nowadays for people there are a lot of other newer meds, but for dogs it is very common prescription. Actually, it’s first choice medicine for epilepsy in dogs. Many of anti seizure medicine can decrease level of consciousness and suppress breathing, as their action is decreasing electric activity of brain.
Dose was safe and and 4 times smaller than maximum dose. Vet did nothing wrong.

I recall many moods ago when I was going to Uni McGill back home, wasn’t it approved by the World Health Organization for developing countries? I think it was like early 1900 - 1920. Geez I need my thinking cap on. :) Thank you for explaining and I do understand the facts. :) But as you know I’m more on the holistic side. I still find it’s an old powerful drug and sometimes our hands are tied.
 
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2KwayzeeDawgs

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Thank you all for your kind words.

Lalaloopsie your explanation made the most sense, and although Im not happy he went thru any pain at the end, I am now settled that he was developing a tumor and Im happy
It never progressed to him being in daily extended pain and mental issues..

My mother gave away all my pets before I experienced a pet death, and ya'll know EBs are your HEART. Ill NEVER get over this and I will miss him forever.

My house is so quiet without the sound of his nails on the floors and his guard dog barking at 9pm every night.

I got them 4 days apart, housebroke them in 2 weeks. Slept on the couch for 10 years cause my bed is 4 feet tall. I never crated them. They never destroyed the house.
They were/are the bestest dogs ever.

Meanwwhile I hafta keep this baby warm

8LXkmVX.jpg

TY All
 

ddnene

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I'm SO very sorry to hear about your Winston... unfortunately I have been in this situation as well, and it is heartbreaking.

My boxer Roxie had cushings, and she eventually developed a tumor in her brain. She forgot how to eat or drink... and was having seizures at the end. I had to have her put down as well, and it literally broke my heart. BUT there is nothing you can do at that point, and it's best to end their suffering regardless of your heartbreak.

I agree w/the others... I don't believe you poisoned your dog at all. Older dogs just develop SO many issues, and sometimes it's hard to tell what is truly happening. Please try NOT to second guess your decision... you did the right thing for Winston, and we know you took the very best care of him.
 

sisters3

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Thank you all for your kind words.

Lalaloopsie your explanation made the most sense, and although Im not happy he went thru any pain at the end, I am now settled that he was developing a tumor and Im happy
It never progressed to him being in daily extended pain and mental issues..

My mother gave away all my pets before I experienced a pet death, and ya'll know EBs are your HEART. Ill NEVER get over this and I will miss him forever.

My house is so quiet without the sound of his nails on the floors and his guard dog barking at 9pm every night.

I got them 4 days apart, housebroke them in 2 weeks. Slept on the couch for 10 years cause my bed is 4 feet tall. I never crated them. They never destroyed the house.
They were/are the bestest dogs ever.

Meanwwhile I hafta keep this baby warm

View attachment 115425

TY All

TRUE LOVE!!! I hope that you find comfort in the beautiful memories of Winston, some day. Who is that sweet baby that needs to stay warm? Name? How is he/she handling all of this? Are the 2 of you finding comfort in each other? I sure hope so!!
 

2BullyMama

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Thank you all for your kind words.

Lalaloopsie your explanation made the most sense, and although Im not happy he went thru any pain at the end, I am now settled that he was developing a tumor and Im happy
It never progressed to him being in daily extended pain and mental issues..

My mother gave away all my pets before I experienced a pet death, and ya'll know EBs are your HEART. Ill NEVER get over this and I will miss him forever.

My house is so quiet without the sound of his nails on the floors and his guard dog barking at 9pm every night.

I got them 4 days apart, housebroke them in 2 weeks. Slept on the couch for 10 years cause my bed is 4 feet tall. I never crated them. They never destroyed the house.
They were/are the bestest dogs ever.

Meanwwhile I hafta keep this baby warm

View attachment 115425

TY All

((((Hugs))))).


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oscarmayer

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Thank you all for your kind words.

Lalaloopsie your explanation made the most sense, and although Im not happy he went thru any pain at the end, I am now settled that he was developing a tumor and Im happy
It never progressed to him being in daily extended pain and mental issues..

My mother gave away all my pets before I experienced a pet death, and ya'll know EBs are your HEART. Ill NEVER get over this and I will miss him forever.

My house is so quiet without the sound of his nails on the floors and his guard dog barking at 9pm every night.

I got them 4 days apart, housebroke them in 2 weeks. Slept on the couch for 10 years cause my bed is 4 feet tall. I never crated them. They never destroyed the house.
They were/are the bestest dogs ever.

Meanwwhile I hafta keep this baby warm

View attachment 115425

TY All
Spoken like/by a TRUE Bulldog lover...

and we're the authority on TRUE Bulldog lovers!
 

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