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Thread: Cystinuria type III

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    Default Cystinuria type III

    I will be getting a male EB at the end of April. I have the choice between two of the males. The breeder is a show home and very reputable. However, I just found out yesterday that both of the males have been tested and have cystinuria type III. I have spoken to the breeder and done a lot of research on the internet (including reading past threads on here) and it appears that this type of cystinuria is testosterone driven so neutering eliminates any possibility of crystals forming. I was never planning on showing or breeding so neutering was always the plan. It sounds like crystals usually form after the age of 1 and it's rare for it to happen in a puppy. Per the agreement, the puppy is to get neutered at age 1, however, if for some reason he starts having problems at like 8 months or something, we can neuter him then. The breeder is also a vet tech for a bully specialist and said I can bring him in any time to be checked out if I think there might be an issue.

    Also, based on what I have read on the internet, you should allegedly feed a low protein diet. Jax (my Frenchie) gets fed raw which isn't necessarily low protein. The breeder is kind of anti-raw but it's my dog, so I will feed what I want. However, if a low protein diet truly is the best, I will do whatever I have to (other than one of those nasty prescription diets). The breeder has asked me to feed a low protein diet until he is age 1 and I am not even sure what is considered low protein.

    I still intend on going forward with getting one of these puppies as it sounds like it can be common with the bulldog breed and neutering is supposed to take care of the problem and it looks like several members on this forum have dealt with this issue. So I am just wondering if anyone has any personal advice for me or words of wisdom. Any help is appreciated!

    Here are a couple pictures of the pups. I met them on Saturday at 3 weeks of age. We will see them again when they are 6 weeks old and their personalities have come out. At this very moment, I am leaning towards the piebald.

    -puppies-1-jpg
    -puppies-2-jpg

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    So glad to welcome you officially to EBN @Cbrugs
    @RiiSi is the perfect person to help you about this subject. Knowing the breeder tested for this does show good intentions.


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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Hi and welcome. You can feed raw as well, but you can modify it a little bit. You can feed more veggies, tripe and maybe some cooked millet or buckwheat. Add water in to his food so he gets hydrated which is important with all types of stones. My boy had Hyperuricouria which is a bit different, so I can't gie you the best advice about the food. Mastiffs suffer from Cystinuria more than bulldogs and there is groups in the internet where you can get info from them. Also monitoring his urine pH is important and that is best done with an electrical pH-meter. Good luck, hope all goes well.

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Quote Originally Posted by RiiSi View Post
    Hi and welcome. You can feed raw as well, but you can modify it a little bit. You can feed more veggies, tripe and maybe some cooked millet or buckwheat. Add water in to his food so he gets hydrated which is important with all types of stones. My boy had Hyperuricouria which is a bit different, so I can't gie you the best advice about the food. Mastiffs suffer from Cystinuria more than bulldogs and there is groups in the internet where you can get info from them. Also monitoring his urine pH is important and that is best done with an electrical pH-meter. Good luck, hope all goes well.
    I know someone who works with a pet nutritionist and she is going to ask him some questions when he is back in town. I just wonder if some proteins would be better than others for a dog that has this condition. And I wonder if once he gets neutered, if I have to worry about his diet at all. I'm just trying to learn all I can before I bring him home.

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Most important thing is for dog to drink a lot of fluid, so canned dog food or adding a lot of water to the kibble is essential. Beef, lamb and rabbit are lower in methionine than other meats so you should choose one of those. Your breeder was right in saying you just need to feed low protein until dog gets neutered. From what I was reading you may not want to make alkaline urine which you need for cysteine stone dissolution since that can promote other types of stones. But, if you do decide to alkalinize the urine you could give potassium citrate to achieve that (0.5 meq/kg/day to start). You are aiming for urine with a pH of 7 to 7.5 .

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollys Owner View Post
    Most important thing is for dog to drink a lot of fluid, so canned dog food or adding a lot of water to the kibble is essential. Beef, lamb and rabbit are lower in methionine than other meats so you should choose one of those. Your breeder was right in saying you just need to feed low protein until dog gets neutered. From what I was reading you may not want to make alkaline urine which you need for cysteine stone dissolution since that can promote other types of stones. But, if you do decide to alkalinize the urine you could give potassium citrate to achieve that (0.5 meq/kg/day to start). You are aiming for urine with a pH of 7 to 7.5 .
    The dog will be neutered at age 1 so I'm hoping the issue gets eliminated with that. I just want to make sure I do what I need to prior to that. I was thinking of starting him on Fromm, they have some that are at 24% protein. Maybe I'll add some wet food to that. I know Fromm has a recall on their canned food last year. Anyone know of a good canned food to feed?

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Another thought...he doesn't currently have stones (he's only 3 1/2 weeks right now) and he may not even get stones before he is neutered. So I might be worrying over nothing. So perhaps I just need to feed him a lower protein kibble, maybe add some wet food, and make sure he drinks plenty of water and that's it. In looking at all the past threads, it seems like all of the dogs got the stones after the age of 1 and before they were neutered????

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    I just took a quick look at some quality canned dog food- they seemed to have high protein content, so you may be better off adding a lot of water to the Fromm.

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollys Owner View Post
    I just took a quick look at some quality canned dog food- they seemed to have high protein content, so you may be better off adding a lot of water to the Fromm.
    So by adding water, do you mean let the kibble soak in water for a bit and then drain the water out? I'm hoping after he is 1 and neutered, I can get him on a raw diet as that contains a lot of moisture.

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    When I add water to kibble for my dog I add it immediately before serving and my dog eats the kibble and licks up the water all at the same time since it hasn't absorbed in yet.

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Don't give your dog any NuVet Plus- it has methionine in it.

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    Default Re: Cystinuria type III

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollys Owner View Post
    Don't give your dog any NuVet Plus- it has methionine in it.
    Would I need to avoid methionine forever or just until he gets neutered? I've been looking at lower protein kibbles (24% - 27% range) and after looking at Fromm, Acana Singles and Zignature, I just saw that the Acana had .4% methionine so I should cross that off the list.

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