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Thread: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

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    Chunky's Chauffeur Become a 4 Paw Member Chunky White's Avatar
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    Default Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    I took Chunky to the vet saturday because I suspected he had a UTI and has been having issues lately urinating in the house and going extra outside. The first time I took him they said he was just marking and that was right after he had his yearly shots.

    The vet called around 6 and said he has and infection and cystine stones. He was given 500ml amoxicillin saturday so he is to continue that and they are recommending neutering him and claim that will help with the stones.

    Whats everyones thoughts on neutering and the cystine stones and is this common with male EB's?

    Owner: Wes
    Bulldog: Chunky White

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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    Damn... i have no experience but have heard neutering dies lessen the chance of the stones developing.

    Do a search there s/b some info from other members going through this. The vet may also want you on Hills or Science Diet but there are other options... raw or honest kitchen


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    Chunky's Chauffeur Become a 4 Paw Member Chunky White's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Damn... i have no experience but have heard neutering dies lessen the chance of the stones developing.

    Do a search there s/b some info from other members going through this. The vet may also want you on Hills or Science Diet but there are other options... raw or honest kitchen


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I have talked to the vet about foods and she hasn't said anything bad about the Acana Appalachian Ranch he is now on but had something to say about the Orijen Six Fish he was on a few weeks ago so I took him off of it. She says its too rich for most dogs. I will see what they say when we talk again after he has been on antibiotics for a few more days. I have no issue with him being neutered so that will most likely happen soon and I would guess after he is over the infection.

    I looked up Cystine Stones right after I spoke to the vet earlier and it does say its most common in intact males but made no mention of neutering them fixing the problem. I live close to the vet so that isn't an issue its just getting the time off work to get all this done. He might have to stay overnight


    I just went back and re read the end of your post and I am not sure about raw and would have to read up on that but just looked up honest and it wouldnt be that much more than what I am already paying for his food

    Owner: Wes
    Bulldog: Chunky White

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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    Poor guy! I hope he gets to feeling better soon!


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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    So sorry this is happening to your boy. I have battled and lost a bully to urate stones.

    The latest research does suggest that bulldogs suffer type III Cystinuria and it is very much a thing in intact bulldogs and neutering can prevent them from occuring again. Mastiffs suffer from another type which is much worse and the most likely can have stones more than once. If your bully is not blocked yet I would recommend neutering as soon as possible, since cystine stones stones don't dissolve with medication or diet. If your vet doesn't know this I would take him somewhere else.

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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    Nyala had issues when she was around 4 months old. Thats when I decided to home cook. Her meals consist of turkey, sweet potatoes, yellow n green beans, peas, lima beans. She was back to normal within a couple weeks. Here's a link for all to read. Great info.

    Treatment and Prevention of Kidney and Bladder Stones | Whole Dog Journal

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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    That is a great link and what is most important is to know what type of stones your dog has. Some stones form in acidic urine and some in alkaline urine. Some foods are acidifying and others alkalising. You need to know what is your dogs situation before properly manage the illness. Bitches are also in a very different place with their anatomy. They can pass even quite a big stones, but dogs can get very easily blocked. This type of Cystinuria alsoo doesn't affect bithes at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by helsonwheels View Post
    Nyala had issues when she was around 4 months old. Thats when I decided to home cook. Her meals consist of turkey, sweet potatoes, yellow n green beans, peas, lima beans. She was back to normal within a couple weeks. Here's a link for all to read. Great info.

    Treatment and Prevention of Kidney and Bladder Stones | Whole Dog Journal

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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    Ugh... I'm SO sorry that you are going thru this w/Chunky. The gang is giving you the right advice though, I have always hear that neutering does help with stones in the long run... I had planned NOT to have Walter neutered, but then he became aggressive so I didn't have a choice.

    "What we once enjoyed and deeply loved, we can never lose, for all that we love deeply becomes a part of us." Helen Keller
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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    We feed The Honest Kitchen Tyson loves it. I have no experience with stones, but I know that we went through numerous kibbles before ending up with The Honest Kitchen, and Tyson has done WONDERFUL on it. We do the base mix, and add in our own protein (Lean ground beef)

    My whole heart, Tyson.
    Whoever said diamonds are a girls best friend, obviously never owned a Bulldog.

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    Chunky's Chauffeur Become a 4 Paw Member Chunky White's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    I will talk to the vet again soon and figure out when they want to do a follow up and the neuter. Thanks for all the replies and recommendations. I will read up on Honest Kitchen and what they provide and talk to the vet and see which they think will be the best for him.

    Owner: Wes
    Bulldog: Chunky White

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    Chunky's Chauffeur Become a 4 Paw Member Chunky White's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    I stole this from the article Helene left a link to in case someone elses dog has this issue it will be on here.


    Cystine stones
    Cystine is a sulfur-containing amino acid essential to the health of skin, hair, bones, and connective tissue. Excess cystine is normally filtered by the kidneys so that it doesnt enter the urine, but some dogs are born with cystinuria, an inherited metabolic disorder that prevents this filtering action. When cystine passes into the urine, it can form crystals and uroliths.

    Cystine stones are rare, representing 1 percent or less of uroliths identified in laboratories. Although any breed can develop cystinuria, certain breeds are most affected. An estimated 10 percent of male Mastiffs have cystinuria. It is also common in Newfoundlands, English Bulldogs, Scottish Deerhounds, Dachshunds, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and Chihuahuas. Cystine stones are faintly radiopaque, which makes them more difficult to see on X-rays than stones that contain calcium.

    There are at least two types of cystinuria. The more severe form affects Newfoundlands and, rarely, Labrador Retrievers, and possibly some other breeds and mixes. In these dogs, males and females are equally affected (though as always, males are more likely to become obstructed). The age at onset can be as young as 6 months to 1 year. Recurrence of stones following surgery is more rapid in these dogs, and they are more likely to form kidney stones. The gene that causes cystinuria in these breeds has been identified and a simple, reliable genetic test can identify both affected dogs and carriers.

    In other breeds, dogs with cystinuria are almost always male. No genetic test is available for them, though the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine (PennVet) is collecting blood samples from affected Mastiffs and their genetic relatives to try to produce a DNA test. The average age at onset of clinical signs is about 5 years.

    A basic urinalysis can sometimes detect cystine in urine, though this is the least reliable method of detection. A nitroprusside (NP) test performed at the University of Pennsylvania (PennGen) is considered more reliable. A quantitative amino acid analysis performed by PennGen or a human medical laboratory is most reliable but very expensive. If cystine is found in the urine on any of these tests, the diagnosis is considered positive for cystinuria, though that doesnt necessarily mean the dog will form stones.

    Unfortunately, a negative result on any of these tests does not guarantee that the dog is clear. Note that sulfa drugs and supplements, including sulfa antibiotics, MSM, and Deramaxx, may cause false positive results.

    Cystinuria is a particularly frustrating condition to manage, says San Francisco Chronicle pet columnist Christie Keith, who started a Canine Cystinuria e-mail list and website when one of her Scottish Deerhounds developed cystine uroliths. A dog known to have cystinuria may go his whole life without obstructing, while another dog, never diagnosed, can have a life-threatening obstruction as his first symptom. Its not known at this time why some dogs with cystinuria form stones and others do not.

    Cystine, like all amino acids, is one of the building blocks of protein. Thats why most veterinarians (including many kidney specialists) prescribe a low-protein diet, speculating that reducing the cystine supply will reduce the formation of cystine stones. Another common recommendation is to alkalize the dogs urine because cystine stones form in acid urine.

    Unfortunately, says Keith, these strategies are ineffective. Most of us on the Canine Cystinuria list have found that diet and urinary alkalization have failed to prevent our dogs from forming stones, she says, and they have sometimes caused other problems, including other types of stones that form in alkaline urine. If the urine goes into acidity even briefly, cystine stones can form and they wont dissolve just because alkaline urine is achieved soon after. In addition, feeding ultra-low-protein diets can be dangerous, especially to giant breeds and breeds prone to cardiomyopathy. (See The Side Effects of Low-Protein Diets, page 13.)

    Its important to provide your dog with extra fluids and frequent opportunities to urinate in order to keep his urine from becoming supersaturated. Salt should not be added to increase fluid consumption for dogs with cystinuria; according to studies conducted on humans, a low-sodium diet may decrease the amount of cystine in the urine.

    If urine alkalization is attempted, the target pH is 7.0 to 7.5; higher can predispose dogs to calcium phosphate uroliths. Potassium citrate is preferred for alkalization when needed rather than sodium bicarbonate because sodium may enhance cystinuria.

    Cystine stones cannot be dissolved with diet or supplements, but two prescription drugs can help dissolve and prevent them. Cuprimine (d-penicillamine) has potentially serious side effects but is less expensive and more readily available, and many dogs do well on it. According to Keith, Thiola (tiopronin, also referred to as 2-mercaptopropionylglycine or 2‑MPG), has fewer side effects, but one of them is the depletion of the owners bank account. Maintaining a giant-breed dog on Thiola can cost as much as $500 per month. Because the severity of cystinuria tends to decline with age, the dosage of preventative medications can sometimes be decreased or even stopped.

    Dissolution requires a combination of medication, low-protein diet, and urinary alkalinization. Even then it may not be successful or practical for a dog with numerous stones. When it does work, dissolution commonly takes one to three months.

    For some dogs, the solution has come not from prevention strategies or medication but from surgery. It sounds extreme, says Keith, but many of us who have stone-forming male dogs with cystinuria have opted for a scrotal urethrostomy. This surgery redirects the dogs urethra away from the penis to a new, surgically created opening in front of the scrotum.

    Cystinuria
    About 10 percent of male Mastiffs have cystinuria; itfs also common in Newfoundlands, English Bulldogs, Scottish Deerhounds, Dachshunds, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and Chihuahuas.

    The wider opening that results enables males to more easily pass small stones and help prevent urinary blockages. While future obstruction is not impossible, says Keith, this procedure reduces the risk substantially. Still, she cautions, this surgery should not be undertaken lightly. Its expensive, requiring the expertise of a skilled board-certified surgeon, and because the affected area is rich in blood vessels, there can be significant post-surgical bleeding, though the surgery is not particularly painful.

    The good news, she says, is that many dogs, including stone-formers and those who had serious complications when their condition was first diagnosed, have lived not just normal but longer-than-normal lives.

    Owner: Wes
    Bulldog: Chunky White

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    Chunky's Chauffeur Become a 4 Paw Member Chunky White's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chunky has a UTI and Cystine stones.

    I sent the his breeder a message to see if he has had any males with Cystine Stones and if so what he had done. I don't really expect an answer back from him but might be surprised.

    Owner: Wes
    Bulldog: Chunky White

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