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Thread: When to neuter?

  1. #25
    Rescue Volunteer Rural mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueberrys Mom View Post
    Neutering at 18-24 months should NOT increase their risk for testicular cancer or prostate issues. If it did, I would of had Blue castrated by now. They're first reaching maturity at this age. The prostate issues don't start until they're much older.
    The point of waiting for us is not so he grows bigger, it's because testosterone does help in proper joint development which to me, is very important in bulldogs considering how they have hip issues.

    In fact, ask your vet the following specific question (this is only for male bullies) and see how they answer.

    1. How does neutering at 6 months of age improve my dogs health?
    The truth is it doesn't. Again, social issues- yes, marking yes.. health wise, absolutely none. There is not one study out there, that shows neutering a male dog so young decreases any kind of cancer or has any other health benefit.

    edited to add: I'm wondering where exactly in this thread did you get the "Waiting until 18-24 months ensures full maturation in males (masculinity, etc), but may increase their risk of cancers and shorter life."
    No one said, or even implied anything of the sort.
    I agree and would go further and ask Why neuter your dog at all?
    The actual health benefits are on the side of leaving the dog intact.
    I have posted on this subject in this forum on other occasions and have sometimes felt like the contrarian and "a voice crying in the wilderness"
    I know that this is a controversial subject and don't want to cause any consternation or hurt feeling but post this for those who are still undecided. I predict that in the years to come that the consensus will be on the side of leaving one's pet intact because of the evidence from research that is mounting and already exists. The only undisputed benefit of neutering is to prevent unwanted litters [ and Ace would have to be some sort of magician to pull that off, its so remote as to be practically nonexistent] and testicular cancer. But of course it prevents testicular cancer because their testicles have been removed [removing a healthy colon would also prevent colon cancer] but castration also eliminates the physical and psychological benefits of the hormone testosterone. What male mammal benefits from the removal of the hormone, testosterone, that is the basis of male physiology and characteristics? Unless there is some overriding present health event, not a supposed one, I will not have Ace neutered [castrated] I haven't seen any unbiased evidence of the benefit of castration and quite the contrary have every reason to believe my conviction is correct.

    https://www.facebook.com/TedKerasote
    Scroll down to June 26 post from Ted Kerasote
    Also Ted Kerasote in an interview discusses why European dogs live longer than dogs in the states and one of the reasons is related to neutering. Link below
    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...in-europe.aspx
    Other links related to this issue.
    http://naturaldogtraining.com/blog/t...ver-neutering/
    http://www.caninesports.com/apps/search?q=neutering
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-he...b_2790315.html
    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/iss...g_15649-1.html
    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_...lasso?id=10498
    Last edited by Rural mystic; 10-18-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #26
    Texas Carol....put the heart in EBN Become a 4 Paw Member
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    [QUOTE=Rural mystic;418818]I agree and would go further and ask Why neuter your dog at all?
    The actual health benefits are on the side of leaving the dog intact.
    I have posted on this subject in this forum on other occasions and have sometimes felt like the
    contrarian and "a voice crying in the wilderness"


    No Tim...you are not alone in your views, I completely agree with you. The spaying/neutering
    of mere babies by shelters is criminal, in my opinion, and I would not adopt, especially large
    breed dogs that have been neutered before maturation as there is much evidence supporting
    bone cancers in these dogs as well as incontinence (females too) and many other problems.

    I've rarely neutered my males, NEVER had behavior problems OR unwanted litters, of course,
    you must be an aware and preventative owner but you should be any way. I do spay my females,
    after maturity of the breed standard but hope in the future more vets will become proficient in
    tubal ligation instead of complete removal of ovaries, etc. Too early spays causes many health
    issues including emotional issues. GOD bless all!


    My 1st bully, Brutus
    RIP beloved boy.

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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rural mystic View Post
    I agree and would go further and ask Why neuter your dog at all?
    The actual health benefits are on the side of leaving the dog intact.
    I have posted on this subject in this forum on other occasions and have sometimes felt like the contrarian and "a voice crying in the wilderness"
    I know that this is a controversial subject and don't want to cause any consternation or hurt feeling but post this for those who are still undecided. I predict that in the years to come that the consensus will be on the side of leaving one's pet intact because of the evidence from research that is mounting and already exists. The only undisputed benefit of neutering is to prevent unwanted litters [ and Ace would have to be some sort of magician to pull that off, its so remote as to be practically nonexistent] and testicular cancer. But of course it prevents testicular cancer because their testicles have been removed [removing a healthy colon would also prevent colon cancer] but castration also eliminates the physical and psychological benefits of the hormone testosterone. What male mammal benefits from the removal of the hormone, testosterone, that is the basis of male physiology and characteristics? Unless there is some overriding present health event, not a supposed one, I will not have Ace neutered [castrated] I haven't seen any unbiased evidence of the benefit of castration and quite the contrary have every reason to believe my conviction is correct.

    https://www.facebook.com/TedKerasote
    Scroll down to June 26 post from Ted Kerasote
    Also Ted Kerasote in an interview discusses why European dogs live longer than dogs in the states and one of the reasons is related to neutering. Link below
    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...in-europe.aspx
    Other links related to this issue.
    http://naturaldogtraining.com/blog/t...ver-neutering/
    http://www.caninesports.com/apps/search?q=neutering
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-he...b_2790315.html
    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/iss...g_15649-1.html
    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_...lasso?id=10498
    Thanks for the links, I've bookmarked them.

    Your question, "why neuter at all?" well, I guess most of us have this predisposed notion that neutering is just part of being a good pet parent. We've heard the mantra for so many years so we just accept that it's the best
    thing for our pet. I'm no different. Especially since I've never owned dogs.
    It wasn't until we got Blue that I really started looking into it, and after researching for months, and speaking with my vet that I realized there's no benefit in doing it young.

    But, testicular cancer and prostate problems do occur in intact males. And considering how many issues my poor pup already has, the last thing I want to do is add any health problems to the ever growing list.
    The questions for me really are- by how much do the cancer risks increase? Meaning what percentage of intact males develop these problems? And 2. What health problems do castrated males incur that intact ones don't. That's something we never really hear about.


  4. #28
    Rescue Volunteer Rural mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueberrys Mom View Post
    Thanks for the links, I've bookmarked them.

    And 2. What health problems do castrated males incur that intact ones don't. That's something we never really hear about.
    Well some of the information your asking about is contained in the articles that were linked to. There is a higher incident of health problems connected to castrated males. For example the ucdavis article contains a link to the research paper that includes some of this data. http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0055937

  5. #29
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    Default When to neuter?

    Reading this thread very interesting indeed with some great information i came to the conclusion that its a matter of personal choice -neutering -age ,or not doing it at all
    Why i did do it is the fact that i always fostered dogs - some with difficult temperament that needed socialisation -least i wanted is one one my dogs got pregnant or get the foster dog pregnant when i wasn't around + in Poland i used to go on "sporting events" with my pits and after we had long walks in the fields -with all kinds of males and females
    I also think that due to the fact of foster work/shelter help etc it kind of stuck in my head that i should neuter by looking at all thise great dogs (full breed or not ) looking for homes where there isnt enough people wanting to adopt
    Im yet to check thise links out but i bookmarked them too ;-)
    "I use search option before posting new thread "
    Rest In Peace Winston xxx

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  6. #30
    Rescue Volunteer Rural mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pati Robins View Post
    Reading this thread very interesting indeed with some great information i came to the conclusion that its a matter of personal choice -neutering -age ,or not doing it at all
    Why i did do it is the fact that i always fostered dogs - some with difficult temperament that needed socialisation -least i wanted is one one my dogs got pregnant or get the foster dog pregnant when i wasn't around + in Poland i used to go on "sporting events" with my pits and after we had long walks in the fields -with all kinds of males and females
    I also think that due to the fact of foster work/shelter help etc it kind of stuck in my head that i should neuter by looking at all thise great dogs (full breed or not ) looking for homes where there isnt enough people wanting to adopt
    Im yet to check thise links out but i bookmarked them too ;-)
    Of course, I understand your decision. There are certainly legitimate reasons for having a pet neutered or spayed and I certainly don't want to come off as being against it in every case because I'm not. But for those who are undecided I want to drop my two cents worth in. I am of the opinion that in the states there has been such a wave of propaganda and rhetoric not to mention ideology in promoting the so called need for "fixing" one's pet. So much so and it has been repeated so often and for so long I think that many don't even give it a second thought and just do it almost as a rite of passage in being a responsible pet owner. And I would like to promote the suggestion that folks do the research first and actually examine the data instead of just going with anecdotal benefits that are oft repeated

    As an aside I would caution everyone regardless of the arena or topic to be wary and dig deeper when euphemisms are replaced routinely for the actually word or description used in referencing a subject. This topic is a prime example. Such as "fixing" What was broken that needed fixing? "neutered" just an euphemism for castration. "Spayed and neutered" Well its just euphemisms for desexing and a radical form of sterilization. I think more owners would give it a second thought and perhaps recoil a bit if their Vet asked them " When do you plan on having your dog castrated?"
    Last edited by Rural mystic; 10-19-2013 at 01:12 PM.

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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    It's very interesting to follow this thread. What surprises me whenever I read about castration of dogs in a North-American context is that the question is usually not if but when to castrate the dog. Where I live, dogs are normally left intact (in 2012, 78 % were NOT castrated) and I must say it therefore seems very strange to castrate dogs almost be default because of expected behavioural problems or because of expected medical problems. Likewise, the problem of unwanted litter surely needn't be a problem among responsible dog owners?

    Having said that, my dog is only six months old and I don't know if this gentle creature will turn into a monster. If that happens, however, further obedience training would be the natural step, not to put him under the knife.

  8. #32
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Thank you for correcting me everyone. I simply couldn't get my head around this topic.

    Just like the raw feeding debate, nobody seems to really know which is better, and both sides have reason to scorn the other.

    Incredible how little we know about how to tend to our animals ... even in 2013 !

  9. #33
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Thank you for correcting me everyone. I simply couldn't get my head around this topic.

    Just like the raw feeding debate, nobody seems to really know which is better, and both sides have reason to scorn the other.

    Incredible how little we know about how to tend to our animals ... even in 2013 !

    @Rural mystic for some reason i assumed the increased testicular cancer risk in non-neutered dogs was due to "lack of use". Not having sex. Someone must have told me that at some point. I believe they were comparing to "Studs" who breed often. Dogs that use their junk on a regular basis. I've heard that if you don't ejaculate you can increase your risk for problems. that sort of logic.

    So in this case though ... that isn't the cause, right? Its just the presence of male androgens in the body. If thats the case, we can look to humans on this issue, couldn't we? They're comparing the numbers to dogs that no longer have testicles. Obviously the rate will be "higher". But if you took 100 human men with testicles, you wouldn't say there is a "high rate" of testicular cancer. You'd have a "normal rate". That would be true for dogs too wouldn't it? In other words NOT neutering doesn't INCREASE risk of testicular cancer at all. Its just higher than it would be in dogs that no longer have testicles.They have shown that testosterone is preventative in heart disease and many other very important health issues in human males.

    If this is the case, then there is no health risk at all. And in fact, Testosterone is *needed* for proper health in males. They're finding that more and more, which is why "anti aging" clinics are popping up. Guys with low testosterone run the risk of many health problems in the long run. It must be replenished, or kick started endogenously. The risk of heart disease and many other things increases exponentially in the absence of testosterone.

    If I am bringing baxter to a doggy daycare do you think they'll require neuter though? Is there a possibility he'd mount a female dog when nobody's watching and trouble could ensue?
    Last edited by Baxter Tiberius; 10-20-2013 at 12:33 AM.

  10. #34
    Rescue Volunteer Rural mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to neuter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Tiberius View Post
    If I am bringing baxter to a doggy daycare do you think they'll require neuter though? Is there a possibility he'd mount a female dog when nobody's watching and trouble could ensue?
    But of course there is always the possible risk your dog breeding another at doggy day care but highly unlikely, if they are a daycare they should be monitoring the dogs if not what's the point of having them there. But its not like they could turn their heads and in seconds the deed would be done. If you leave your dog intact and the doggy day care requires neutering then I would simply not take him there. I wouldn't allow a doggy day care to dictate how I raise my dog. If someone is really concerned that their dog might sire a unwanted litter then there are other methods of prevention without castration. Perhaps in the future there will be more Vets to perform vasectomies, I think there are already a few that will now as an option but they are scarce from what I have read

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