Awful Behaviour in the Days After Neutering

Reggies Parents

New member
Dec 30, 2016
193
5
Bristol, UK
Country
United Kingdom
Bulldog(s) Names
Reggie
Hi all,

Just in case anyone here hasn't read my post in the members only section, here is an overview...

Reggie is now 9 months old, and was neutered on Thursday. Even though both testicles were retained we had planned to wait a little longer but his male behaviours were getting ridiculous, and really hard to deal with.

Behaviour wise, I know it can take anything from 4 to 8 weeks, sometimes longer, for the testosterone to come out of his system, and to start seeing any changes. And believe me, we were NOT expecting it to be a miracle cure and to have the perfect pulp afterwards.
But what I was not expecting is for his behaviour to have got so much worse.

Thursday he mostly slept, Friday was still a bit lethargic and mopey. Since Saturday it seems every 10 to 15 minutes he's just trying to attack me.
He's OK when he wakes up, but won't come over for his morning cuddles anymore. During the afternoon, he's not too bad. After his nap, he is pretty much awful in the evening. If I leave him alone for 2 seconds he starts doing something he knows he shouldn't, like chewing the furniture. I tell him no, and redirect to his bones or antlers or horns, and then he runs at me snarling and snapping, if I don't move out of the way quickly enough he bites my legs, and aims for the thigh or inside of knee.
I try to stay calm, walk over to his crate and epget him in for time out, but he is biting me the whole way.
As soon as I let him out the process starts again.

Sunday and today its been worse, because its completely unprovoked. I was sat on the sofa, and he was quietly chewing his horn on the other side. All of a sudden he ran over at me, and even though I was watching him from the corner of my eye, I couldn't move quickly enough and he bit my elbow really hard. I didn't need to fake the loud 'ouch', but then as I stood up to walk away he flew off the sofa at me, at waist height (which is scary when your pregnant), teeth bared and it was only because I jumped out of the way that he caught my top and not my arm. My top now has holes in it because he wouldn't let go and as he dropped to the floor, it ripped.

He doesn't do this to Kev, just me. And this behaviour is a lot less when Kev is here, but he's had to work a lot the past few days.

He has had his check up at the vets and they say he is fine, healing really well. They also gave him a full check up while he was under anaesthetic and although he does have an elongated soft palate, and some mild (their words) entropian, there is nothing that would be causing enough pain to explain this behaviour.

I have taken the advice of [MENTION=15364]oscarmayer[/MENTION] from the other thread and started training one reliable command (sit), over and over again.
We are also looking for local reputable behaviourists but all the advice they are giving is to wait at least 4 weeks after the op before assessing his behaviour. But this is getting me worried now, as although some of this is nipping (which still hurts!), some of it is a lot more than that.

Any help gratefully appreciated, as always!!

Edit - and oh my god the barking is non stop!!! I can't even leave him alone long enough to have a pee!
 

Hankster

Well-known member
Community Veteran
Aug 27, 2016
4,496
88
Country
US
Bulldog(s) Names
hank
oh no... I have no idea except this breaks my heart and I hope that there is answers for you. I cant even imagine. And I hate to say but I'm protective of you more so than him in this. I do hope they're is help or it's time to re-think some things. Sorry if I'm jumping the gun, I'm feeling motherly protection over you... Usually I'm all for the dog, but,,,,,,,,,,, Anyway, ignore my 'mama' jumpin in and hopfully someone with some sense will be able to help.
 

Dollys Owner

Active member
Feb 20, 2017
2,005
25
Country
Canada
Bulldog(s) Names
Honey
I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. I'm thinking Reggie must be in pain and vet hasn't picked up cause. I would try getting him checked over again and giving him some tramadol pain killer to see if that improves behaviour. I read that 30 out of 35 dogs that were euthanized for aggressive behaviour were found on autopsy to have undiagnosed middle ear infections that must have been causing them severe pain.
 

Hankster

Well-known member
Community Veteran
Aug 27, 2016
4,496
88
Country
US
Bulldog(s) Names
hank
I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. I'm thinking Reggie must be in pain and vet hasn't picked up cause. I would try getting him checked over again and giving him some tramadol pain killer to see if that improves behaviour. I read that 30 out of 35 dogs that were euthanized for aggressive behaviour were found on autopsy to have undiagnosed middle ear infections that must have been causing them severe pain.

This is incredible!!! (the 30 of 35) This should be on a sticky here as that is huge!! I know this sounds bad but I almost hope that Reggie has this middle ear infection!!! and that that would solve his issues.... all while being taken out of his own pain as well of course.
 

TyTysmom

Moderator
Nov 4, 2014
5,474
392
Katy, TX
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Tyson aka "Ty-Ty"
Yikes I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Does the vet have any insight? Could he still be in pain?? Is he on pain meds?? If not I'd ask the vet for some ASAP, Tramadol.

When Tyson is in pain he gets aggressive towards us. He's bitten us in rage before we figured out he was having pain in his legs from arthritis.

It could me a combo of pain from healing, the change in his body, and he may also be picking up on your hormones due to your pregnancy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lalaloopsie

New member
Apr 18, 2016
1,628
34
Cape Town, SA
Country
Belarus
Bulldog(s) Names
Tank
First of all, I wouldn't listen to advice to wait 4 weeks etc. It doesn't matter, what is the reason of this behaviour, snarling and real non playful biting must be stopped BEFORE he hurts you real bad. Every time you let him do this, he is getting more sure that he is alpha. I'm sorry, but in order to stay with your family, his attempts to be alpha must be stopped. In these cases you have even sometimes to punish dog. Nobody wants to do this, but sometimes you have to. I would propose you to try first to shout at him like crazy, and may be use something making crazy sounds - you know, these children's things made of 5 plastic layers, you shake them and they produce trick-track sounds. Or, bang with two baking trays? You know, try first just to startle him, and may be spray him with water (keep these things always in hand). I'm afraid, if it doesn't work, you will have to smack him properly with something. With a broom, for example. I know, it sounds awful, but if this behaviour won't be overpowered, you can never be sure that it is safe to be with him especially when you have a baby. If someone will say you that it is not humane, I would say that it is inacceptable that you are afraid of your own dog.
 

Texas Carol

Texas Carol....put the heart in EBN
Community Veteran
Jul 4, 2012
7,581
832
Central Texas
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Brutus & Cami live in Heaven
Completely unacceptable behavior, agree with my dear friends above.

Please keep him crated & let Kev take him out for potty breaks, walks,
feedings, etc. Keep a harness (not collar) on him & leashed when out of
crate (for more control if needed). Make sure Vet understands the serious
intent behind these attacks and that they are escalating so they know to
look further for painful conditions, request a thyroid test as being off can
cause rage. And yes, may be pain from neuter so request tramadol to see
if it helps. I thought a member had an excellent idea about having baking
sheets handy to separate fighting dogs & put between them & you if set on.
You can't take any chances of harm to you or baby, know you love him but it's
about safety, his as well. Something isn't right and I'm praying that Vets figure
his problem out & asap. The longer he does this, the more the behavior sets in
his mind as a 'go to behavior' when stressed or angry. Please let us know how it
goes, as last resort maybe a trusted relative or friend could take him while Vets
take tests & do bloodwork. Could there be any chance the neuter caused this, a
nicked nerve, etc? So very sad you are dealing with this & worry about him too :(
 

2BullyMama

I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog?
Staff member
Community Veteran
Jul 28, 2011
48,599
3,692
Gilbertsville, PA
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Chelios (Frenchie), Cubby (Frenchie) Nitschke (2004-2011) Banks (2005-2014) and Lambeau (2014-2024)
Agree with all above... he is either in pain or hormones are really off the charts.

If you have tramadol... what milligrams and dosage is he on?

I knew a cane corse that had this procedure (both did not drop) and his pain was intense, I remember Amy having to ice the area and he was on a pain patch for about a week with the tramadol.

Sending lots of prayers... keep him crated or gated in a separate room where you can see each orher when Kevin isn't with you... hard as it is, it is safest for both of you till you know why his behavior is so unacceptable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KING OLLIE HOUSE of BULLDOG

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2016
1,443
62
Florida
Country
usa
Bulldog(s) Names
King Ollie
Hi all,

Just in case anyone here hasn't read my post in the members only section, here is an overview...

Reggie is now 9 months old, and was neutered on Thursday. Even though both testicles were retained we had planned to wait a little longer but his male behaviours were getting ridiculous, and really hard to deal with.

Behaviour wise, I know it can take anything from 4 to 8 weeks, sometimes longer, for the testosterone to come out of his system, and to start seeing any changes. And believe me, we were NOT expecting it to be a miracle cure and to have the perfect pulp afterwards.
But what I was not expecting is for his behaviour to have got so much worse.

Thursday he mostly slept, Friday was still a bit lethargic and mopey. Since Saturday it seems every 10 to 15 minutes he's just trying to attack me.
He's OK when he wakes up, but won't come over for his morning cuddles anymore. During the afternoon, he's not too bad. After his nap, he is pretty much awful in the evening. If I leave him alone for 2 seconds he starts doing something he knows he shouldn't, like chewing the furniture. I tell him no, and redirect to his bones or antlers or horns, and then he runs at me snarling and snapping, if I don't move out of the way quickly enough he bites my legs, and aims for the thigh or inside of knee.
I try to stay calm, walk over to his crate and epget him in for time out, but he is biting me the whole way.
As soon as I let him out the process starts again.

Sunday and today its been worse, because its completely unprovoked. I was sat on the sofa, and he was quietly chewing his horn on the other side. All of a sudden he ran over at me, and even though I was watching him from the corner of my eye, I couldn't move quickly enough and he bit my elbow really hard. I didn't need to fake the loud 'ouch', but then as I stood up to walk away he flew off the sofa at me, at waist height (which is scary when your pregnant), teeth bared and it was only because I jumped out of the way that he caught my top and not my arm. My top now has holes in it because he wouldn't let go and as he dropped to the floor, it ripped.

He doesn't do this to Kev, just me. And this behaviour is a lot less when Kev is here, but he's had to work a lot the past few days.

He has had his check up at the vets and they say he is fine, healing really well. They also gave him a full check up while he was under anaesthetic and although he does have an elongated soft palate, and some mild (their words) entropian, there is nothing that would be causing enough pain to explain this behaviour.

I have taken the advice of [MENTION=15364]oscarmayer[/MENTION] from the other thread and started training one reliable command (sit), over and over again.
We are also looking for local reputable behaviourists but all the advice they are giving is to wait at least 4 weeks after the op before assessing his behaviour. But this is getting me worried now, as although some of this is nipping (which still hurts!), some of it is a lot more than that.

Any help gratefully appreciated, as always!!

Edit - and oh my god the barking is non stop!!! I can't even leave him alone long enough to have a pee!

This is just awful. My heart breaks for you. This sounds very simplistic, but the very first thing I'd do is contact a Bull dog breeder (do it through the U.K. Kennel club) and get recommendations for a muzzle that will properly fit an EBD. Safety first. Also you deserve a break. Please consider the muzzle option to buy you some time. Sometimes the simplest option is the best place to start. I think of you all the time.

This is the muzzle we used on our Welsh Terrier when we could not stop her from catching and eating small birds. She could even eat with it on. The muzzle was developed in U.K. It is made for short snout dogs like Boxers etc. please watch the video.

https://www.companyofanimals.us/brands/baskerville-muzzles

The photos are Taffy with her muzzle on. She really never minded it as it was soft.
9730c059da71f7f6852aa77b9eb6285d.jpg
8f72b2a76da0b406cd6decd6e66cc497.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

oscarmayer

Have Bulldog Will Travel
Staff member
Jan 20, 2016
4,439
1,700
VA
Country
United States
Bulldog(s) Names
Lala, Chesty, Winky, Waggles, Moose, and rescue MoJo
I think Reggie needs a "come to Jesus" event. Time for you and hubby(and any other capable family member) to take control of him. You, expecting, may not be able to do this and should proceed with caution.
It appears to me that Reggie vying for ALPHA in your home and he has you below him in the pecking order. There's lots to be done to regain/establish your position higher than he. From now on...and until he's in his place...
You should be the only one to feed him. Take him for long walks. Kennel him if not already doing so. Cover the kennel when he's in it.
He needs to be on a short lead at all times. Get a Martingale collar and adjust it on the tight side (when cinched up). Cut a lead down in length to about 3 feet and have it on him at all times. It may come in very handy should this situation escalate. Has he ever been sprayed with a water bottle? Some dogs hate it and respond by backing off, some hate it and lash out at it. Some DGAS. Try it. Again, proceed with caution. If he has free run of the home and furniture then it's time to change that. He must earn every privilege with good behavior. It's time for YOU to take over and be the ALPHA. This can/may get ugly...be alert and ready yourself at all times. He's young and still impressionable. To keep him from taking over, you and hubby have to.

Our first Bulldog was just plain MEAN as a puppy. At 6 months old she would bite the crap out of us and was very defiant! One day my wife had had enough and pinned Naggy to the floor and screamed bloody murder at her. She fought and fought to get up but Donna held her down tight. Naggy eventually gave up and Donna still held her down. I thought Donna was going to choke her out. Eventually, she let her up and took her straight to her kennel. We didn't hear a peep out of Naggy for hours. Later, life resumed to normal but Naggy was no longer allowed ANY perks...she had to earn everything (that she was previously accustomed to) all over again. It took a long time. Naggy never bit anyone again. She was a changed dog from that point on. That was her "come to Jesus" event.
I'm not saying this will work for you...or anyone else, but it worked wonders for Naggy and it put her at the bottom of the pecking order in our home in one brief moment.
Get professional help for your bully right away.
 

Cbrugs

Administrator
Community Veteran
Dec 9, 2016
5,656
1,571
Seattle, WA
Country
United States
Bulldog(s) Names
King Louie, Jax (French Bulldog), Ella Mae and Darla Rae
I've never heard of this happening because of a neuter. I sure hope you can find the cause quickly and get it taken care of.
 
OP
R

Reggies Parents

New member
Dec 30, 2016
193
5
Bristol, UK
Country
United Kingdom
Bulldog(s) Names
Reggie
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #12
Thanks for the awesome advice everyone.
I'll try and answer as many of your questions as I can -
He finished his pain meds yesterday, and I don't have the box but I'll try and fish it out of the bin later & post again.
I spoke to the vet who did his op, and he said everything went really well and although they were both retained, they were only slightly up in the inguinal canal - he only has 2 small incisions. Pain may be a factor, but he thinks probably not.
We have tried squirting water before, it worked at first but now it makes him worse.
Kev has pinned him, and it works - I have pinned him and he seems to calm down but the minute I let go he gets straight up and goes at me again. [MENTION=15364]oscarmayer[/MENTION] - you are right, I am below him in the pecking order but I'm sure he sees Kev as alpha. [MENTION=13133]TyTysmom[/MENTION] - vet did say my pregnancy hormones could have an effect, which makes sense because he was always funny with me during my "time" too. [MENTION=15780]Lalaloopsie[/MENTION] - we have considered noise deterants before, but he has always been afraid of certain noises, and hearing something he doesn't like will make him bark at every tiny thing for the rest of the day! [MENTION=16690]Daphne DuMaurier[/MENTION] - thanks for the safe muzzle idea!

The vet did say (which backs up all the research I've done on internet over last 3 days), that sometimes operations of any sort affect certain dogs very differently than others. Especially over reactive and high energy dogs like Reggie. It seems that a combination of pain (however small) and the fact that you just cannot exercise them properly because of the op, means they are left with super-crazy amounts of energy that they have no idea what to do with - which we could see in him from Saturday onwards. If thats the case with Reggie, which the vet thinks it is, than we should see improvements as we can start to exercise him more - and it should get vastly better when he can have a bloody good run off lead. And then obviously, as the testosterone wears off we'll see changes too.
This explanation makes sense to me, so for the time being Kev is taking over mostly everything. It seems even when he's not in attack mode he is pretty passive aggressive with me, and will not obey any commands.
So the time I do spend with him will be training time, treats in hand at all times as that almost guarantees good behaviour. And will also work off some energy.

Will keep you all posted!! Thanks for all the good wishes everyone :) [MENTION=16280]Hankster[/MENTION] - Thanks Jill! Motherly luvvin always appreciated!
 

2BullyMama

I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog?
Staff member
Community Veteran
Jul 28, 2011
48,599
3,692
Gilbertsville, PA
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Chelios (Frenchie), Cubby (Frenchie) Nitschke (2004-2011) Banks (2005-2014) and Lambeau (2014-2024)
Good plan... make him work for those treats-- mental exercise is just as tiring as physical ... sending lots of positive thoughts ... a simple training technique that can help is 'nothing in life is free'. They work for everything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
R

Reggies Parents

New member
Dec 30, 2016
193
5
Bristol, UK
Country
United Kingdom
Bulldog(s) Names
Reggie
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #14
Good plan... make him work for those treats-- mental exercise is just as tiring as physical ... sending lots of positive thoughts ... a simple training technique that can help is 'nothing in life is free'. They work for everything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Funny you should mention NILIF - asked the vet about it. He said maybe wait till after we can start exercising him properly. The combo of no workouts & no toys may just send him right over the edge!
 

2BullyMama

I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog?
Staff member
Community Veteran
Jul 28, 2011
48,599
3,692
Gilbertsville, PA
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Chelios (Frenchie), Cubby (Frenchie) Nitschke (2004-2011) Banks (2005-2014) and Lambeau (2014-2024)
Funny you should mention NILIF - asked the vet about it. He said maybe wait till after we can start exercising him properly. The combo of no workouts & no toys may just send him right over the edge!

NILF is not exercising.. it is basic commands.

If you are aware and read up on it-- it is about teaching the dog that you are alpha and he must follow your commands to obtain what he wants -- we used it with Banks and all our pups since.. it really works.

Some examples would be.. no furniture unless you invite him, no food unless you release him to the bowl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top