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Thread: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

  1. #1
    Wrinkle Wiper mcardle3's Avatar
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    Default Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    Background:

    Longtime bulldog owners (40 years) who recently lost one (rescue) due to Cushings. The remaining dog (Custer - also rescue) was so depressed at the loss of his long-term bonded brother we decided it would be best to bring in another dog to help relieve his distress. Custer and Sherman had 6 years together in our home.

    Through a friend we were led to a lovely breeder who had a girl she was not going to show, who had had one litter of pups, and was going to be retired. She is 5. When we meet her she is quiet and calm, and we think...YAY!

    We get her home, and it has been very hard to see.

    1. She does this frantic run through the house. Low running (think cat slinking) from place to place either looking for a place to hide, or get away from everyone.

    2. She does not obey any commands and if you say anything with any authority she cowers like you are going to beat her.

    3. She cannot be trusted off leash as she will run under tall, towering pine trees and not come out. She is where you can see her but not get to her, and she keeps it that way.

    4. When we go outside, anything will distract her from her potty duties. A bus going by on the road (we live very rurally, private dirt road) will mean no peeing for her, whereupon she will go in the house and then pee and poo.

    5. Little to no emotion towards us. Early morning we are met with tail wags and happy face, then that is it. A blank slate of nothingness follows.

    6. She will do what we call bustering. She will plow between your legs to get to where her fear is driving her. Not good for someone with systemic scleroderma.


    We go to the vet on Saturday as I am frustrated beyond belief. Nothing we do or have tried is helping.

    I don't know if it is fear, anxiety, mental issues...but this is not good.

    We are thinking prozac...what are the plusses/minuses...thoughts on this. Custer has gotten where he wants no where near her if he can help it because she hurts him in her manic and frantic run and pace thing...just sad.
    "Once you have had a wonderful dog, a life without one, is a life diminished.”
    -Dean Koontz


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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    This behavior is very typical of a breeder bitch. I'd guess that she has had ZERO socialization with people and other dogs for the first 5 years of her life. NOT good and not what you are hoping for. This girl may not be a good fit for you and will likely never be the companion for your Custer that you'd hoped for. I recommend that you consider returning her to the breeder. She will likely need to be managed for most of her life and I'm quite sure that that is something you did not sign up for.

    saving as many as we can for the sake of Bullykind

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    Wrinkle Wiper mcardle3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    Thank you.

    We were told that she was raised with the family and we have seen photos of her with the family...This is a true dilemma...I am heartbroken. I'm going to see what the vet suggests first and then go from there.

    So breeder bitches do that frantic run and hide thing? My dog walker says it is as if she doesn't know how to be a dog!
    "Once you have had a wonderful dog, a life without one, is a life diminished.”
    -Dean Koontz


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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    @mcardle3 So sorry to hear about your dilemma. This girl sounds like just what Chip stated. She has had no socialization at all. Maybe they just brought her out to take photos. She sounds like she has had no human contact and has been in a cage or run-not living with the family. There is a member @brutus77 who gives her dog prozac, but he was not as bad off as she is. Seems that she has not had any human bonding at all. It does not seem that prozac will do much-might calm her some but unlikely that she will be a "pet". Not all brood females are this way,it depends on the "owners".
    "
    “It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough,all the components of my heart will be dog,and I will become as generous and loving as they are"

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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    There typically is an adjustment period especially for rescues and/or breeder dogs.
    It's hard to say if she will or won't adjust to y'all, your bully & your home. Hopefully
    she will do so, I will certainly pray she does as y'all have seen her calm before.
    Please let us know her outcome.

    Sincere condolences on the death of your beloved bully & your currant bully's sadness.


    My 1st bully, Brutus
    RIP beloved boy.

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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcardle3 View Post
    Background:

    Longtime bulldog owners (40 years) who recently lost one (rescue) due to Cushings. The remaining dog (Custer - also rescue) was so depressed at the loss of his long-term bonded brother we decided it would be best to bring in another dog to help relieve his distress. Custer and Sherman had 6 years together in our home.

    Through a friend we were led to a lovely breeder who had a girl she was not going to show, who had had one litter of pups, and was going to be retired. She is 5. When we meet her she is quiet and calm, and we think...YAY!

    We get her home, and it has been very hard to see.

    1. She does this frantic run through the house. Low running (think cat slinking) from place to place either looking for a place to hide, or get away from everyone.

    2. She does not obey any commands and if you say anything with any authority she cowers like you are going to beat her.

    3. She cannot be trusted off leash as she will run under tall, towering pine trees and not come out. She is where you can see her but not get to her, and she keeps it that way.

    4. When we go outside, anything will distract her from her potty duties. A bus going by on the road (we live very rurally, private dirt road) will mean no peeing for her, whereupon she will go in the house and then pee and poo.

    5. Little to no emotion towards us. Early morning we are met with tail wags and happy face, then that is it. A blank slate of nothingness follows.

    6. She will do what we call bustering. She will plow between your legs to get to where her fear is driving her. Not good for someone with systemic scleroderma.


    We go to the vet on Saturday as I am frustrated beyond belief. Nothing we do or have tried is helping.

    I don't know if it is fear, anxiety, mental issues...but this is not good.

    We are thinking prozac...what are the plusses/minuses...thoughts on this. Custer has gotten where he wants no where near her if he can help it because she hurts him in her manic and frantic run and pace thing...just sad.
    How long has she been with you? it could take a month or so for her to settle into a new space, but I tend to agree with the others that she may have been hidden most of her life and not a pet or socialized in anyway.

    So sorry for the loss of Sherman
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    There is a part of your heart not alive until a bulldog has entered your lif
    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




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    Wrinkle Wiper mcardle3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    I've fostered and taken in rescues for many years (bulldog). This is the hardest thing I have ever had to watch actually (and one of our boys was beaten so severely he has bone damage). We spent 3 years getting one to not be afraid of everything. She, however, seems manic. She eats like a horse, but is losing weight because of this manic running that is continual.

    We are going to the vet tomorrow. Fingers crossed.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    How long has she been with you? it could take a month or so for her to settle into a new space, but I tend to agree with the others that she may have been hidden most of her life and not a pet or socialized in anyway.

    So sorry for the loss of Sherman
    "Once you have had a wonderful dog, a life without one, is a life diminished.”
    -Dean Koontz


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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    I have no experience with this, so no advice to give you, sorry. I just wanted to say I'm sorry your in such a sad situation and I really hope you find a resolution for both you and her soon.

    Best wishes from Em, Kev & Reggie x

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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcardle3 View Post
    I've fostered and taken in rescues for many years (bulldog). This is the hardest thing I have ever had to watch actually (and one of our boys was beaten so severely he has bone damage). We spent 3 years getting one to not be afraid of everything. She, however, seems manic. She eats like a horse, but is losing weight because of this manic running that is continual.

    We are going to the vet tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
    if you have not thought of it or it was not tested... have her thyroid levels checked
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
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    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    I have had many rescued dogs full of anxiety and that is what you have in my personal view.
    You have you hands full , you must make the time and there is a lot of that needed . I have a feeling returning the dog will might it a death sentence . Have you talked to that breeder and the BS they fed you ?
    This dog will need all your experience and love to correct a small amount of the issues you have mentioned I think . Odin came with and still has the same issues the key to him was the group around him and the time i spent just working with him and he is by no means perfect now . It is going to take time a lot of time you are starting over like a puppy ok , that means one hell of a lot of one on one time tons , I always talk to My guys never stop talking when there bad I talk NOT HIT talk , I change my tone of voice depending on what has gone on and realize those different degree,s of what has gone on like a child or puppy .
    Depending on how your other pup takes too all your attention directed too the new pup will make a difference but you will have to spend that time tothe new dog or it could get trouble brewing .
    Sorry to be so negative but it is very workable I have done it with many dogs in the past and still work with the ones I have , it has turned into a bit of a love story for us all , there ( all four ) happy within there pack and us humans , We show them unconditional LOVE and we get buckets of it back and I mean BUCKETS back
    let us know what and how you are making out love to help any way I can .
    YOU MIGHT BE A BULLDOG IF...

    ...everyone else in a room with you is pinching their noses
    ...you snore like a chain saw.
    ...it takes too much energy to beg
    ...your snore is louder than your bark
    ...you have never seen your tail...what is a tail anyways?
    ...you're the loudest snorer in the house.

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    Wrinkle Wiper mcardle3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    Seems she have very limited vision, coupled with the fact that she seems to have been kenneled more than not. My dog walker is right...she doesn't know how to be a dog and is freaked the heck out because all she can see is shadow.

    This is very sad.
    "Once you have had a wonderful dog, a life without one, is a life diminished.”
    -Dean Koontz


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    Wrinkle Wiper mcardle3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manic and Frantic...what to do?

    ***UPDATE****

    WE took her to the eye vet and found out some things.

    She, at the time of the appointment was only seeing shadow. Her dry eye was not being addressed correctly and left her with vision loss. With eye flushes, some drops that will help clear that up some, and more lubricating drops we already see improvement. The eye vet says her vision will never be 100% but we will improve it a great deal. I'm consistent and a zealot of nothing else, and so if it can be...it will be.

    Whoever said she had been more a kennel dog was dead on. She exhibited the behavior in front of the vet and they said it was classic "I am used to a kennel for safety, where is my kennel" behavior. We put her on an anxiety med (not prozac...something a whole lot less - at work and can't remember the name, think xanax for dogs) and we see some marked improvement. She still frantically runs from time to time but it is becoming less and less.

    She LOVES my granddaughter -img_1699-jpg They like to "love up" together and as my Gracie says...Maisie likes to make "KIND EYES" at Gracie too. I so love that.

    -16508397_10154434290644370_6056558597759920677_n-jpg-16939632_10154490048419370_2707097376683952074_n-jpg

    The only other behavior issues we are working out...

    Pooping in the house while we are out. We tried crating her a couple of days which resulted in her pooping in the crate and basically painting herself with it. She is without a human from 8 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. when the dog walker comes in. She is then without human from 12:30 - 5:00 p.m. She will poop within a few minutes of us leaving (dog walker came in early a couple times to see what she was doing) but never poops in the house in the longer 12:30 - 5:00 time? When we are home, however (weekends), and take her out the same amount of times as she is out during the week...she never poops in the house. This may be separation anxiety?

    Car peeing in the car She LOVES to ride and go places. She gets so excited to get in the car and sits happily while awaiting wherever it is we we land. In that time, however, she will pee on the blanket in the back of the car...Just the once, within moments of leaving the house...anyone?

    So a great leap in improvement, and she's a work in progress...we'll get there.
    "Once you have had a wonderful dog, a life without one, is a life diminished.”
    -Dean Koontz


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