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Thread: What is prompting these fights?

  1. #13
    Rescue Volunteer Become a 4 Paw Member 1Chumly's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    So sorry to hear this. We had to re-home one of our dogs once because of fights. It is very distressing but is often the only solution for the safety of everyone involved.
    Chumly 2002-2014 A gentle soul and the love of my life.

  2. #14
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    I'm so sorry it has to be this way. But sometimes it's for the best for everybody.

  3. #15
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    @2BullyMama @1Chumly @RiiSi @Manydogs

    Thanks to all of you for your kind words. I sometimes catch myself thinking maybe we won't have to rehome but then Buttercup growls and I realize it's for the best as you say.

    Now I understand all those adoption posts that say "She needs to be the only dog in the home." I'm at the point where I wonder if Buttercup would tolerate a baby in the house! Probably won't be an issue, but something to consider if we do end up having a kid.

    Thanks again for your support. Big lesson learned here after some heartbreak.

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  5. #16
    I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog? I am an EBN Reporter
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    @minibull Please keep us posted and let us know if we can help


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  6. #17
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    So new update -- we decided to try spay and neuter then keep mostly apart for a couple of months while their hormones decline and re-evaluate. We keep one of them with each of us much of the time and have them in the same room only in a controlled situation (e.g., both of us present with them on leashes, cake pans ready to clang, walks together fine but I won't bathe them together).

    Does this sound crazy? I know it may not work (hearing Banks' story reminds me of that), but I feel like we have to try. The biggest injury risk is that Winston won't back down after Buttercup growls. Vet thinks that he may back off more easily if he doesn't have his testicles. We'd also like to reduce his major marking tendency in our home.

    Here's a pic of them in the garden plot yesterday (sorry it's upside down).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sarge and bacon in garden crop.jpg 
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ID:	96531

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  8. #18
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    It would be so great if all works out for them and you! Best Wishes! @minibull
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    “It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough,all the components of my heart will be dog,and I will become as generous and loving as they are"

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  10. #19
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    Quote Originally Posted by minibull View Post
    So new update -- we decided to try spay and neuter then keep mostly apart for a couple of months while their hormones decline and re-evaluate. We keep one of them with each of us much of the time and have them in the same room only in a controlled situation (e.g., both of us present with them on leashes, cake pans ready to clang, walks together fine but I won't bathe them together).

    Does this sound crazy? I know it may not work (hearing Banks' story reminds me of that), but I feel like we have to try. The biggest injury risk is that Winston won't back down after Buttercup growls. Vet thinks that he may back off more easily if he doesn't have his testicles. We'd also like to reduce his major marking tendency in our home.

    Here's a pic of them in the garden plot yesterday (sorry it's upside down).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sarge and bacon in garden crop.jpg 
Views:	83 
Size:	949.7 KB 
ID:	96531
    It is totally worth the try.... Now that you made that decision if you don't try you may always question yourself with... What if?

    With all we learned from Banks.. The biggest thing was consistentcy from us and learning/knowing her triggers... So we avoided, others we knew to place her in a command until the trigger was removed. All this is why i say she was a 9 yr training session---- in honesty, i am tearing up writing this as I miss everything about her-- especially her challenge, would do it all again in a millisecond.


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    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




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  12. #20
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    It is totally worth the try.... Now that you made that decision if you don't try you may always question yourself with... What if?

    With all we learned from Banks.. The biggest thing was consistentcy from us and learning/knowing her triggers... So we avoided, others we knew to place her in a command until the trigger was removed. All this is why i say she was a 9 yr training session---- in honesty, i am tearing up writing this as I miss everything about her-- especially her challenge, would do it all again in a millisecond.
    I've actually thought about you and Banks a lot lately because I remember how much you miss her. And your statement about knowing her triggers and keeping her in a command is really on point for us. As long as we don't let either of them up on our laps or give anyone special attention we are able to keep the peace.

    When I wipe Winston's paws after outside time I make her sit and stay several feet away until I finish. She's not too thrilled, but so far she listens well.

    I still keep the cake pans with me and am ready to distract with promises of peanut butter to break their laser focus once Buttercup growls. We keep leashes trailing behind them at all times just in case, but it doesn't seem to bother them.

    I separate them when I need to fully focus on other things. I hope that the post-op hormone changes will permit more normal life together down the road, but for now at least we are able to prevent fights and not fall into bad habits by observing these rules.

    I agree that I'll feel glad to at least have tried. I did not appreciate until now how many folks have 2 or more EBs (or other dogs) who do not get along well. I feel quite sheltered as it seems all the doggie siblings I've ever known have gotten along pretty well. The worst I ever saw was when my childhood terrier was mean-spirited toward our sweet lab-shepherd mix, but she never tried to hurt her and the lab was too oblivious to realize the terrier wanted to send her back to the stork.

    Sadly we cannot get their surgeries until early April unless we seek a different vet. Will update as time goes on! Thanks again for your advice and support.

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  14. #21
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    I really cant put into words how much of a hole there is without her--- 16 months she has been gone and it feels like it happen this morning

    April isn't far off... Stay consistent--- sometimes that is all they need.. Is to know you won't accept their crap and you are the boss.
    Sending lots if encouragement and support.


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  15. #22
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    Hi minibull, I'm sorry it is so difficult to have Buttercup and Winston both together. I hope you will be successfull with your plans and training and will be able to keep Winston.
    I know how difficult it can be. My mother's Terrier girl started suddenly (they know each other since they were young/puppy) to attack my English Bulldog girl. Reason: extreme jealousy. My girl got bitten and didn't defend herself. She just stood there, without understanding what was happening and why. After some tries I decided they have to be seperated forever, because I didn't want my girl to be hurt physically and/or psychically and because I knew one day she would start to defend herself. I didn't want her social behaviour being destroyed - and I know the Terrier will never change. For some years Püppy and I only visited my parents periodically but since a couple of month we live all together. Luckily my parents have enough space so the dogs can be seperated all the time. But everyone has to be cautious - always telling, when a dog is let out in the garden; always closing doors,...
    I keep my fingers crossed for you, and am sending prayers and positive thoughts


    Quote Originally Posted by minibull View Post
    and am ready to distract with promises of peanut butter to break their laser focus once Buttercup growls.
    When I read this there came something to my mind: be careful they don't see the peanut butter as a reward in this situation instead of a distraction. Perhaps it would be better not to give food/treats in this situation, to avoid wrong connection.

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  17. #23
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Man, buttercup is Banks. Yes, she was spayed at 6 mths and it did nothing-- it is just who she was and how she was wired. Banks was not allowed to do anything without being told (furniture, food, going out the door) everything with her had to be monitored or she would take the 10 miles we gave her. She was hell in wheels and I'd give anything to have her back... I learned so much from her and the challenge really gave me patience i never thought I would have.... most important is all humans in home have to be consistent-- if not, she will not balance and will always react as she is


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    @2BullyMama took the words right out of my mouth. I have Izzy who is 8 & Jackson who is 4. She's been spayed since a puppy, he was recently neutered last year. They are exactly how @2BullyMama described. They can go on walks outside together, drink out of the same water bowl (sometimes).. Yet Izzy entirely glazes over into a possessive rage towards Jackson. In her defense before my boyfriend got her at 10 months old, she was abused and so she has her defense mechanism instilled in her. A veterinarian once said to us that it's because female bulldogs are naturally dominant and she feels tested when she's around Jackson. It takes one stare from either of them and she immediately wants to kill Jackson. Thank goodness for my training that I'm able to control him without a leash & he will always back down when I command it. Her on the other hand, always has to be on a lead. Dogs like this need balance and stability, which I've given to Jackson by making sure he feels safe around us but Izzy on the other hand is still something we struggle with on a daily basis. One thing that has worked for us is to prevent them from staring at each other - sometimes it's hard to tell who started it but we just snap both of them out of it with a command, this is still with Izzy on a lead at all times. I hope this helps & just know you are not alone @minibull!!

    Edit: I wanted to add that before Jackson became of age (or grew into his gonads), they got along fine, always play fighting and cuddling with us on the couch together. I think having his gonads really triggered his dominance & Izzy did not like it at all.
    Last edited by Isabel and Jackson; 03-18-2016 at 11:06 AM. Reason: additional info.


    Rita

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  19. #24
    Dog Show Judge Become a 4 Paw Member natski282's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is prompting these fights?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Are you in anyway tense, anticipating the behavior or nervous? If yes, then which ever you are petting is picking up on this and feeling the need to protect you from the other. Is that possible?

    We had similar issues with Banks, her and Nitschke were just like your two and on a whim she would full on attack him for no reason--- she ended up being a 9 yr training session, could not let her have an inch or her beeotchyness would kick in


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    Well said and we have gone threw this with Odin and Dakota and still do to a much smaller degree, but most times it is when The Prettyone comes home Friday night and over the weekend when she is here pure jealous from Dakota to Odin if he approaches The Prettyone in My view , the other part of the problem is I am the corrector versus The Prettyone ( she is not great at it ) where as I take NO prisoners compared . Odin is not one to attack but Dakota has NO fear and has made the mistake a couple of time and paid for it , No vet bills but close .
    It is a work in progress and we are seeing signs of better relations but it is by spreading the love equal and not allowing Dakota to DEMAND it all
    YOU MIGHT BE A BULLDOG IF...

    ...everyone else in a room with you is pinching their noses
    ...you snore like a chain saw.
    ...it takes too much energy to beg
    ...your snore is louder than your bark
    ...you have never seen your tail...what is a tail anyways?
    ...you're the loudest snorer in the house.

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