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Thread: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

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    Default cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    This is my first post, and I apologize in advance for how long this is going to be. Let me start by introducing my 3 dogs. I have a 7yr old corgi-Pom mix, and TWO 10 month old female English bulldogs, from the same litter. One of the bullies is deaf. I had the corgi first then got the bullies. I'm so overwhelmed by the amount of behavioral issues I'm having with my girls. My husband and I live in a second story condo and have designated the balcony as the dogs' bathroom. I'm a nurse and work nights and my schedule varies. My husband is a respiratory therapist at night as well, and goes to school a few days out of the week.

    1) jumping. They jump on everyone. Everyone. I've tried ignoring, redirecting, turning. They've been ineffective. I get jumped from behind or they begin to nip at ankles and/or jump and try to bite my arms.
    2) biting. One of them (the one who's not deaf) bites at my feet and my ankles at random times, but EVERY DAY, many times a day. When I try to push her away or grab at the loose skin on their back neck to get her off or to stop, she rolls over onto her back and bites my arm. She won't get redirected by toys or other things (I've tried).
    3) terrorizing. They keep trying to play with my corgi who does not want to play with them. They go for his face first to try to sniff him or chase him around. He bites their face and tries to run away...(no blood but there have been little nicks) but they seem unphased and continue to go after him.
    It has gotten to the point where my corgi only stays in our room and only goes out when he hears the doorbell, has to go to the bathroom, or for meal times. He shakes when he's around them or hears them coming.
    4) potty training. 50% of the time they go outside where they're supposed to. The other 50% they go wherever they please inside the house. They have scheduled potty times but sometimes they still go unscheduled.
    5) resource guarding. I can't feed them treats or any food without them trying to eat my whole hand. They bark before meals and they are unable to wait to eat once I put the bowl down. They almost jump up while I'm putting bowls down. They try to steal each other's chews/toys when I've given each of them one.

    I feel like I've separated the bullies and the corgi long enough and I really want them to get used to each other. At the same time I want them to be calm and behaved enough to be able to be around him, and me, of course. We walk them separately. Bathe them separately. Feed them separately. They even have different times when they can roam around the house.

    We've enrolled them in puppy classes starting sept 14. Just the bullies, not the corgi. I'm afraid these weekly classes might not be enough for the damage I've done. Oh, I also got a personal trainer one day for basic obedience. It didn't work out.

    WHAT CAN I DO for all these issues??

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Welcome! Two puppies is always hard work and you have the added hurdle of training when one of them is special needs. First I would make sure they are good and tired. When puppies have too much pent up energy they tend to use it in all the wrong ways. Take them for walks, enroll them in doggy daycare.....just something to burn that energy. Maybe get some treat toys so they are using their little minds in a constructive manner instead of terrorizing the corgi.
    Does everybody have their own crate? I would suggest that so that your other dog can get away from the puppies and the puppies have a place to go when it's time for them to rest.
    For the mouthing.....we have always shouted "ouch" loudly and immediately withdraw attention until they calm down.

    Some training will have to be modified for the deaf pup and hopefully someone with experience on that can chime in here soon.

    Good of luck and don't give up! I'm sure we have all wondered what we were thinking at some point in the puppy raising phase! Lol

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Hi, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't have any experience with the issues you are dealing with, but I do have two EBs that are siblings and litter mates, my guys are both almost 4 years old. You mentioned you've tried many methods such as redirecting and some training. In my experience with two dogs, it takes a lot of time training, patience, and scheduling. I find that my guys do well on a schedule, we have had them on the same schedule since they were puppies. Maybe try going back to basics with them for potty breaks. The rule of thumb is that a puppy should be able to hold their bladder for 1 hour for every month of age, so by the time they are 5 months old, they should be able to hold for 5 or 6 hours. The schedule we used when we first brought them home was:

    6:00 am: Out for a Potty break, bring them back out and feed them, then take them out every hour for potty breaks
    during the day

    12 noon: Feed them again, continue to take them out every hour

    6:00 pm: Feed them a third time, and continue to take them out every hour until the evening.

    2:00 am. Set your cell phone to take them out for a potty break. Their bladders are not able to hold for the whole
    night yet.

    You increase the time between potty breaks by one hour for every month of age, until they are 5 months old

    When they were 5 months old, they were trained and their schedule went to:

    6:00 am: out for a walk

    6:30 am: feed them

    10:00 am: Out for a potty break

    2:00 pm: Out for a potty break

    6:00 pm: Out for a potty break

    6:30 pm: feed them dinner

    10:00 pm: go for a walk and we give them a good run in a park, or off leash area to let them get tired
    Out.
    They go for a long walk in the mornings and evenings.

    This schedule is probably hard for you guys since you both work at night, and sleep during the day. Maybe try doggy day care during the day, where they can run and play during the day, or hire a dog walker that can come once or twice a day to take them for potty breaks and a walk, and then you could take them on a long walk later in the day or in the evening before going to work. Going back to basics with both potty training and behaviour training will help, and having a trainer work with you and them to correct their behaviour. Giving them longer walks during the day, and a good run at least once a day will tire them out, and giving them play time will keep them from getting bored. EBs don't like to be alone, they love to be close to their family, and love to snuggle.
    LEARN A LESSON FROM YOUR DOG, NO MATTER WHAT LIFE BRINGS YOU, KICK SOME GRASS OVER THAT AND MOVE ON.

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    I have a rescue that would jump on the counter and steal stuff, and when he got too overstimulated he would jump on us and nip. I bought an E-collar for him and it really changed his behavior. Now I do not shock him. Let me repeat this, I do not shock him. The collar has a tone button that when I see him starting to do something he should not be doing I tone him and he stops immediately. We could not have anyone come over without frankie being leashed and still as soon as I released him he would not behave. It sounds like the girls need intense training. Training a bulldog is 24/7. I might add also that when I put the collar on him when really never have to tone him anymore. He knows what behavior is expected. It is just another training tool. You must be consistent with their training no matter what or it wont work.
    My smooshy face boy!

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Rosalie wrapped it up perfect when she says training bulldogs is a 24/7 thing, consistency and patience is what you really need to have a lot of too.

    They're still babies so maybe those classes will have a better outcome then you might think. Professional training is great but training this breed is 24/7.

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    have you heard of 'littermate syndrome'... i think this is something you should be aware of going forward. sorry I am not offering any solutions, but it's best to be aware

    Littermate Syndrome: The risky downside to raising sibling puppies | Jeff Stallings, CPDT-KA

    https://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/201...mate-syndrome/


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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Quote Originally Posted by madie4589 View Post
    have you heard of 'littermate syndrome'... i think this is something you should be aware of going forward. sorry I am not offering any solutions, but it's best to be aware

    Littermate Syndrome: The risky downside to raising sibling puppies | Jeff Stallings, CPDT-KA

    https://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/201...mate-syndrome/
    What interesting articles! I have never heard of littermate syndrome. It reminds me of some puppies my ex got--about a million years ago before we were even married. They were German Shepard mixes, littermates and one of them was also deaf. They were the wildest dogs I've ever been around. Seriously, they would not respond to us at all! We couldn't handle them at all and my ex ended up rehoming them.

    I once had a litter of boxer puppies and one couple took siblings. They never had any trouble with them, but when one died (at a nice old age for a boxer), the other one died less than a month later. They thought it was from a broken heart.

    I wish I had some advice @DaphNiss, but I don't have any experience with this. I will say that by 10 months I don't think they should be still biting you like they are. I hope the puppy class will help. In light of the articles that Madie posted, is there any chance that you could take them separately to different sessions? I know it's a lot more work, but it might be more effective. The only other thing is that you might get a professional trainer involved. I'm sorry, I know it is painful for you and I wish the best for you and all three of your pups!

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Thank you, everyone. I'll have to put in more time in doing everything with each of them separately. I have heard of litter mate syndrome. They're okay when they're not together (I don't notice any anxiety or shyness when one is apart from the other), and they are definitely crated separately. Only thing (major thing) they exhibit when they ARE together is the fact that I don't exist...which is probably why they walk all over me.

    I've also tried the e-collar. I don't shock them --- ever! I tried to use the beep/tone on my normal dog while training and she basically told me I've wasted my money on it because it's like the sound didn't exist lol. I used the vibrating setting on my deaf dog and she just kept trying to take off the collar.

    I'm hoping really really really hard that these upcoming training sessions will be successful. I kind of don't want to do it separately because the next training session won't be for another 8 weeks. I'll just mention it to the trainers and hopefully we can keep them at separate ends of the facility. It's a group training thing, I believe.

    I. Am. Exhausted. For whatever reason they're more behaved towards my husband and when he's around. By behaved I mean they're calmer and they don't try to nip at me. So of course he doesn't think anything is wrong no matter what I tell him.

    I'm gonna put in more time...only because I can't put in more money lol. I refuse to rehome any of them!

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    I agree w/all the above advice… tired puppies make better behaved. I would say when you get home just wear them out, and hopefully they will stop terrorizing you. They are still little, so it will take some time and hopefully they will mature. Good luck...

    "What we once enjoyed and deeply loved, we can never lose, for all that we love deeply becomes a part of us." Helen Keller
    RIP Wellie, Bella, Winston & Roxie

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    See if they like to chase a laser pointer light. That's one of Sheps favorite toys and I can just relax while he chases the red dot all over. Lol

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Quote Originally Posted by ddnene View Post
    I agree w/all the above advice… tired puppies make better behaved. I would say when you get home just wear them out, and hopefully they will stop terrorizing you. They are still little, so it will take some time and hopefully they will mature. Good luck...
    I agree 100%. Your hours make it harder. Stick with it and before long they will be buddies. Rogan had eye surgery and he slept at the vets over night. Other than that they have never be seperated. Always together. One goes outside you have to keep the door open because the other will be right behind them. Hang in there.

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    Default Re: cant blame anyone but myself...but seriously??

    Sorry, I have just been offline and didn't respond sooner. A cause is the most likely easiest to predict. The answer will be: lots of hard work.I have often raised two littermates
    together,along with having other young-but older dogs. It sounds like these pups had way too much freedom, and have not been taught respect for the "leader of the pack",which is you. If you and your husband are not on the same page with training, it will never work. You will have to start, as if they are 8 weeks old, which will be hard,
    as they are much larger. They are just like bratty kids, I have seen in stores, where they don't listen to the parents at all, because the kids have been in control!
    This can be fixed,but it will take a lot of hard work on your part. I don't know if you have crates(as was asked) but you need to get at least two crates-one for each bullie,and let them learn to be crated, when YOU want them to be. Taking them to school is a good idea, because it teaches YOU how to teach the dogs, and have them learn some respect. R-e-s-p-e-c-t/ take a listen to Aretha Franklin's song-it can apply to dog's too! It will take patience and determination, but it can be done. The fact that you both work long hours makes it harder,but you have to take charge, parents!! I wish you all the best. It will work out if you stick to your guns!!! @DaphNiss
    "
    “It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough,all the components of my heart will be dog,and I will become as generous and loving as they are"

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