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Thread: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

  1. #13
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    Thanks for the feedback again.

    Now he wont eat his food. If he hears a car outside with a loud muffler, he runs off like a bat out of hell as food splatters all over the floor behind him. Which I of course get to clean up. Every single time.

    As I mentioned, the neurotic behavior would be fine if it didn't result in a lot of residual negatives.

    If he wants to be neurotic and not potty during dog walks, then fine, but that means I clean up a disgusting mess in the morning because he will go in his crate all over himself.

    If he refuses to eat his food because he hears the washing machine in the other room make a "knock" noise, then fine, but he proceeds to splatter food all over the living room floor, which I spend 10 minutes cleaning up.

    The neurosis is cute, frustrating, and fun to laugh at.

    Its the residual effects of the neurosis that are beginning to grate on me. The inconveniences and "time suck" involved is staggering. I've spent entire mornings dealing with the effects of his mental dysfunctions / neuroses when I should have been working.

    Oh. He peed in his crate again last night. Why? Im beginning to believe its ... "because he felt like it". He knows he will get in trouble, and then pout for the entire day. But he does it anyway.

    Part of this process is trying to understand him.

    First I decided this breed is just not that smart.

    Then I decided this breed is just stubborn.

    Then I decided this breed is both dumb and stubborn. A bad combination.

    Now I have decided that this breed actually doesn't understand that they shouldn't do "whatever they want". That its engrained in them that they are the boss, and punishments are only confusing to them. Primarily because they think they are in control at all times, and they don't see anything wrong with that. There is no connection between "Cause and Effect" for Baxter. When he was crotch diving the other dog at my family reunion, and getting viciously attacked each time - he continued to do it another (literally) 25 times. Everyone was just standing there shaking their heads.

    I think they just do what they want, and our reaction of anger, or scolding, is a total mystery to them. Honestly I feel like its a constant power struggle. And I talk to other bulldog owners at the park - they convey the same frustrations. Unfortunately most of them have told me they just smack the rebelliousness out of their dogs. Or if they refuse to walk, they drag them by the leash/collar/neck anyway. I haven't gotten to that point, and I don't want to. Its abuse to me. But the power struggle just gets ridiculous sometimes. And I honestly feel like I am the only one who feels this way. Everyone on here seems so chipper LOL!

  2. #14
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    I was having these same thoughts just last night! There was a dress hanging in our closet that I just bought (still in the bag) and June would not stop barking at it! If you're so scared of the hanging dress bag in the closet, why on earth do you keep going in our room to bark at it?!?


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  3. #15
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    I couldn't help but have a laugh whilst reading your post simply because I can totally relate - my two girls have always been referred to as 'special needs' and although it does cause me huge amounts of stress and anxiety I have come to the conclusion that it is part their breed, part their personality and part my anxiety and lack of successful training.

    Moey who is now 4 years old and the mother of Pinky who is 1.5 years old - is completely unhinged. She can not deal with fresh flowers, she growls and gets down on her front legs and runs around the house like a loon, she reacts the same with anything that folds such as a small washing lines, chairs etc.

    She will not go to the bathroom at night if she is told and therefore will need to poop inside and if she does she then eats her poop!!! Ever since she was a baby - if she ever makes a poop inside she will eat it before we see it - its horrible. She never does it when she goes outside. I believe that its simply because she knows she shouldn't go inside and she will get in trouble. Lesson we learnt from this is to not tell her she must go to the toilet before closing the door at night, simply let her decide. The result has been that she seems to go to the toilet before the door is closed and she does not poop inside. We have only just figured this out in the last 9 months.

    Moey also does odd things where she will sit in the corner of the room facing the wall corner and simply stare at the wall with her head slightly tilted up. She does this for long periods of time and will not talk to us. She usually does this if I have been out for the evening or if she has been told off for something. Not even food will distract her and she will only come out of this when she is ready.

    She use to be rather dominant towards other dogs and would chase small children if they ran and she would knock them down also. She would also jump up if anyone was carrying a small child and would act as if she was wanting to bite the kid by nipping. She never did bite anyone, especially not a child although it was a terrible behavior and made many neighbors/friends obviously angry. I quickly saw this as a jealousy issue and also dominating issue - again all because I had not really trained her well with children and other dogs from a puppy. She is much more relaxed now around other dogs and simply does not seem to be interested in other dogs other than a quick sniff and thats it...this i believe has simply come with age. She is more interested in people. With children I have tried to train her that she will not be allowed near children if thats her behavior and she learnt very quickly and instead seems to simply now walk away from children. With that said its all at her choosing (again not enough training on my part) as if a kid comes up to her she will sit and let them pat her but if the run away or get picked up she is back to her old habits.

    Pinky on the other hand is much worse as she seems to pretend to be very dominant but in fact she is actually very insecure and anxious. If she hears a noise she cocks her head, barks and looks to her Mother and if her Mother runs outside she will try and push her out the way to get out there first although if Moey decides not to run all the way outside, as soon as Pinky realises she quickly runs back and jumps on my lap shivering. She is also very aggressive to puppies and small children yet timid to other adult dogs to the point where she will lay at their feet! She has had many of those idiopathic head tremors and she cant sleep in her bed without her Mother. If Moey doesnt sleep in the bed (as she often sleeps on the floor up against the wall) Pinky will scratch herself all night and wake up raw. Alternatively if I let her on my bed she stops scratching immediately.

    There are a million other issues that they both have although the only area you can work on is training...and even that is only a part of the issue. The point that i wanted to make is I don't actually believe its stupidity but instead its quite the opposite - they are highly intelligent and a lot more mentally intricate, sensitive and capable than other breeds. Most other dogs are simple - food, sleep, play/love...Bulldogs are a lot more complicated, they think for themselves, they make what seems like educated (although questionable) choices and most of all they know you better than you probably know yourself and they seem to have a more intimate understanding of what is happening around them than other breeds.

    Im not sure this is helpful other than to say - you are not alone and that I do feel that the same particles that make them slightly crazy are also what allow them to be so beautiful and like no other breed and why I just cant imagine a world without them!

    All the best

  4. #16
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoandPinky View Post
    There are a million other issues that they both have although the only area you can work on is training...and even that is only a part of the issue. The point that i wanted to make is I don't actually believe its stupidity but instead its quite the opposite - they are highly intelligent and a lot more mentally intricate, sensitive and capable than other breeds. Most other dogs are simple - food, sleep, play/love...Bulldogs are a lot more complicated, they think for themselves, they make what seems like educated (although questionable) choices and most of all they know you better than you probably know yourself and they seem to have a more intimate understanding of what is happening around them than other breeds. Im not sure this is helpful other than to say - you are not alone and that I do feel that the same particles that make them slightly crazy are also what allow them to be so beautiful and like no other breed and why I just cant imagine a world without them!

    All the best
    totally agree....
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  5. #17
    Baxter Tiberius
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    @MoandPinky @2BullyMama - that quote was amazing. Thank you for pulling it out of mo's post and reposting it. It really is true I think. Isn't it strange how they can seem dumb. But you are totally right. Its painfully obvious that they are seriously evaluating everything, and far more introspective than any other breed. You are totally right. I appreciate you writing that.

    ------

    I actually feel bad after I post here, because i tend only to come here now when there are problems. I hope all of you don't think its one big negative drama fest in our house. Those weeks/months that go by when I don't post are always amazing times of happiness. He will just get in a "rut" sometimes. So I come here to vent. Then later I feel like "Gosh those people must think I am miserable and unhappy with Baxter." Couldn't be farther from the truth. I adore him. Absolutely adore him. And we are connected at the hip. Everyone in my building knows it. He's the light of my life.

    I've noticed that its *my* level of patience on any given day, that dictates my perception of things with Baxter. If I am feeling stressed, tired, exhausted, or worst of all - impatient - dealing with him seems 10,000x harder. And the bad is magnified 10,000x more. And you can bet he looks at me like "Daddy why are you so annoyed today, im always this indifferent to your commands" (with an annoyed/perplexed look on his face) LOL ...

    Tonight I was feeling patient as a Saint. And I took him out to potty. Wasn't raining. But ... little Baxter just peed about 10 times and chilled. Then chilled some more. Watched a guy ride by on his bike. Watched a car pull up. Meanwhile Kevin is saying - very patiently and kindly - "Baxter ... go potty". He looks at me ... sniffs around on the ground to start going #2 .... then stops again. Looks up. Watches a lady run to her car at the nearby gas station. Keeps standing there. Looking around. Im just standing there myself. Waiting. Waiting ...

    Repeat this process .... 10 minutes .... 20 minutes goes by .... yes .... 30 minutes goes by and I am still standing there. 40 cars have filled their gas tanks and driven home. Probably gotten ready for bed and sound asleep. And still there I was waiting for baxter to go to the bathroom. He does what he wants. When he wants. But tonight I was patient, so I just enjoyed the breeze ... and shook my head ... and waited. Finally after 35 minutes Baxter decides to go #2 ... and we go inside. It used to literally take 1 minute and 45 seconds for him to finish his business. Now I get to stand there for nearly 45 minutes.

    Any suggestions on this?

    -B-

    She will not go to the bathroom at night if she is told and therefore will need to poop inside and if she does she then eats her poop!!! Ever since she was a baby - if she ever makes a poop inside she will eat it before we see it - its horrible. She never does it when she goes outside. I believe that its simply because she knows she shouldn't go inside and she will get in trouble.
    I just sat here laughing out loud. Seriously laughing. Probably out of humor, and also out of stress relief. Its so therapeutic to hear these stories. I know its your nightmare. But it makes me feel like my situation is normal. I am a "single parent". So I don't get to share the disobedience and frustration with a partner. I get to handle every minute element of the neuroses, disobedience, and difficulties, every second of every day, by myself. Despite the fact that I am not actually a single parent, I have developed a newfound respect for single moms. That's for darn sure. The ability to sit back and emotionally detach yourself from the situation while your partner cleans up the latest mess, or struggles to walk on the leash, is (i assume) very therapeutic. :-D

  6. #18
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Tiberius View Post
    @MoandPinky @2BullyMama - that quote was amazing. Thank you for pulling it out of mo's post and reposting it. It really is true I think. Isn't it strange how they can seem dumb. But you are totally right. Its painfully obvious that they are seriously evaluating everything, and far more introspective than any other breed. You are totally right. I appreciate you writing that.

    ------

    I actually feel bad after I post here, because i tend only to come here now when there are problems. I hope all of you don't think its one big negative drama fest in our house. Those weeks/months that go by when I don't post are always amazing times of happiness. He will just get in a "rut" sometimes. So I come here to vent. Then later I feel like "Gosh those people must think I am miserable and unhappy with Baxter." Couldn't be farther from the truth. I adore him. Absolutely adore him. And we are connected at the hip. Everyone in my building knows it. He's the light of my life.

    I've noticed that its *my* level of patience on any given day, that dictates my perception of things with Baxter. If I am feeling stressed, tired, exhausted, or worst of all - impatient - dealing with him seems 10,000x harder. And the bad is magnified 10,000x more. And you can bet he looks at me like "Daddy why are you so annoyed today, im always this indifferent to your commands" (with an annoyed/perplexed look on his face) LOL ...

    Tonight I was feeling patient as a Saint. And I took him out to potty. Wasn't raining. But ... little Baxter just peed about 10 times and chilled. Then chilled some more. Watched a guy ride by on his bike. Watched a car pull up. Meanwhile Kevin is saying - very patiently and kindly - "Baxter ... go potty". He looks at me ... sniffs around on the ground to start going #2 .... then stops again. Looks up. Watches a lady run to her car at the nearby gas station. Keeps standing there. Looking around. Im just standing there myself. Waiting. Waiting ...

    Repeat this process .... 10 minutes .... 20 minutes goes by .... yes .... 30 minutes goes by and I am still standing there. 40 cars have filled their gas tanks and driven home. Probably gotten ready for bed and sound asleep. And still there I was waiting for baxter to go to the bathroom. He does what he wants. When he wants. But tonight I was patient, so I just enjoyed the breeze ... and shook my head ... and waited. Finally after 35 minutes Baxter decides to go #2 ... and we go inside. It used to literally take 1 minute and 45 seconds for him to finish his business. Now I get to stand there for nearly 45 minutes.

    Any suggestions on this?

    -B-


    I just sat here laughing out loud. Seriously laughing. Probably out of humor, and also out of stress relief. Its so therapeutic to hear these stories. I know its your nightmare. But it makes me feel like my situation is normal. I am a "single parent". So I don't get to share the disobedience and frustration with a partner. I get to handle every minute element of the neuroses, disobedience, and difficulties, every second of every day, by myself. Despite the fact that I am not actually a single parent, I have developed a newfound respect for single moms. That's for darn sure. The ability to sit back and emotionally detach yourself from the situation while your partner cleans up the latest mess, or struggles to walk on the leash, is (i assume) very therapeutic. :-D
    no worries Kevin.... it is what we are all here for... vent, share, learn and help. We all have the times you mention, right Tracey? @ddnene There were times with Banks, countless times, I wanted to trade her in for a newer model, but las we all learn, they really do have a mind of their own and 'decide' if they are going to do what is asked of them.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
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    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




  7. #19
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    @2BullyMama @Baxter Tiberius

    Oh ABSOLUTELY!!! After owning 4 bulldogs, I have come to the conclusion that part of their appeal is that they ARE stubborn… Lol AND extremely intelligent, I've NEVER had a breed that would actually "watch" TV or look at you intently while you are talking to another person. I think that part of the challenge that we all obviously enjoy, is actually getting them to DO what they are supposed to do as opposed to them just "ruling the roost" so to speak. The only other people that can relate to this unique relationship are those that own bulldogs themselves… that would explain why our family/friends think that we all are insane Can you imagine how boring life would be w/out this amazing canine?!! WE are the lucky ones, the rest of them are missing out!!!

    "What we once enjoyed and deeply loved, we can never lose, for all that we love deeply becomes a part of us." Helen Keller
    RIP Wellie, Bella, Winston & Roxie

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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    Kevin...I feel your pain and truly, I empathize with all you said and yes, it
    would be easy to read your post and say, Kevin is just not a bullie person.
    And...if true...so what...nothing wrong with that! After all, nothing can prepare
    you for life with a bulldog except...life with a bulldog.

    I'm amazed and always will be that I tolerate their quirky ways & unbelievable
    stubbornness as well as I do BUT there have been moments I wanted to find
    the two I've had, new homes! You seem to be very intelligent, a control freak,
    impatient & master of your domain...except for the intelligence, I'm that kind of
    person along with being fastidious about my house, clothes, yard, etc, loving fine,
    high end fabrics & formal decor, none of which is suitable for bullie life And both
    my (adopted & older) bullies were housetrained, omg...all breeds of dogs I've had,
    no problems training them. The bullies?....a nightmare! They'ed do great for awhile
    then regress out of the blue. Do you know how many times I've washed & dry cleaned
    feather bed, down mattress cover, silk king comforter, silk sheets, etc?!! Of course, they
    wouldn't crate by this time, they'ed rub faces raw in protest & cry all night. SIGH!!!!!!!
    My 1st bully, Brutus (RIP beloved boy) came to me very neglected all his life & many
    owners, none really having or spending much time w/him. 4-5 yrs old, so eager to love
    and be loved and ready for it, we bonded immediately <3 He was so handsome and had
    great manners, very mellow boy, loved my cat CoCo right away and she adored him. That
    is the two of them in my sig line, both gone now (RIP CoCo, forever cherished) along with
    my husband in Sept, 2012, so much loss, so much pain that only my currant bullie, Cami
    can help heal my brokenness and she's doing a fabulous job <3 A retired breeder, she's a
    bit of a diva but sweet, very sweet. I had a bad week going on and yesterday, just broke
    down & cried in my room. Cami came and just sat by me, I threw my arms around her and
    sobbed against her big wide, white chest, just stoically & motherly, there for me, always.
    I forgive her peeing on my immaculate, impressive bed & sumptious coverings all those
    times. They can be replaced, Cami and all she gives me, nothing held back ever, her love,
    loyalty & heart shining out thru her adoring eyes at me, priceless!

    BTW...she finally...finally...goes potty outside, decided on HER timetable, it's a bully thang.


    My 1st bully, Brutus
    RIP beloved boy.

  9. #21
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Tiberius View Post
    I've noticed that its *my* level of patience on any given day, that dictates my perception of things with Baxter. If I am feeling stressed, tired, exhausted, or worst of all - impatient - dealing with him seems 10,000x harder. And the bad is magnified 10,000x more. And you can bet he looks at me like "Daddy why are you so annoyed today, im always this indifferent to your commands" (with an annoyed/perplexed look on his face) LOL ...

    Tonight I was feeling patient as a Saint. And I took him out to potty. Wasn't raining. But ... little Baxter just peed about 10 times and chilled. Then chilled some more. Watched a guy ride by on his bike. Watched a car pull up. Meanwhile Kevin is saying - very patiently and kindly - "Baxter ... go potty". He looks at me ... sniffs around on the ground to start going #2 .... then stops again. Looks up. Watches a lady run to her car at the nearby gas station. Keeps standing there. Looking around. Im just standing there myself. Waiting. Waiting ...

    Repeat this process .... 10 minutes .... 20 minutes goes by .... yes .... 30 minutes goes by and I am still standing there. 40 cars have filled their gas tanks and driven home. Probably gotten ready for bed and sound asleep. And still there I was waiting for baxter to go to the bathroom. He does what he wants. When he wants. But tonight I was patient, so I just enjoyed the breeze ... and shook my head ... and waited. Finally after 35 minutes Baxter decides to go #2 ... and we go inside. It used to literally take 1 minute and 45 seconds for him to finish his business. Now I get to stand there for nearly 45 minutes.

    Any suggestions on this?

    -B-


    I just sat here laughing out loud. Seriously laughing. Probably out of humor, and also out of stress relief. Its so therapeutic to hear these stories. I know its your nightmare. But it makes me feel like my situation is normal. I am a "single parent". So I don't get to share the disobedience and frustration with a partner. I get to handle every minute element of the neuroses, disobedience, and difficulties, every second of every day, by myself. Despite the fact that I am not actually a single parent, I have developed a newfound respect for single moms. That's for darn sure. The ability to sit back and emotionally detach yourself from the situation while your partner cleans up the latest mess, or struggles to walk on the leash, is (i assume) very therapeutic. :-D
    I know this is an old thread, but this and your original post hit home because I sometimes find myself feeling similarly impatient -- and I feel like an awful person when that feeling hits just because Buttercup refuses to conform to my timeline.

    We left her with another family over Thanksgiving and since then she just will not eat her food-water-ACV mix that she gobbled up so heartily before. She seems to like the dry food, but she is drinking so little water that I worry about her long-term kidney function. We give from a squeeze bottle but it just is not anywhere enough to meet her minimum daily requirement. And she won't drink from a bowl or Lixit bottle. Sometimes I get so frustrated by this that I could nearly cry, and I'm sure she senses that.


    For Baxter's pooping schedule I wonder if it would help to do some playtime before the expected poop, indoors if permitted or outside if weather permits. I find that Buttercup almost always poops during or after exercise, regardless of whether she went just before that exercise. She also tends to poop right after she eats, so I try to take advantage of that "gastrocolic reflex" that people and animals tend to have.

    She is not as keen to poop if I take her out on the leash for a potty break as she would rather run off and find her own spot. So for those times that she does not go during a leashed potty break (e.g., if there are distractions like deer or people outside near our house) I just give up and take her inside to keep from getting annoyed. I wonder if it would be better, if only for your sanity, to take Brutus inside if he does not potty after a few minutes and then try again a little later. Even just a few minutes later might help him to "reset" any fixations he may have.

    I hope you have found a solution or at least some peace by now, but even if not know that I feel similar despair at times for other reasons and can empathize with you. Also agree that it is nice to have at least occasional times when someone other than me can try to coax her to do whatever it is that needs doing!

  10. #22
    Bulldog Vet in Training Become a 4 Paw Member Donnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    This has been such an interesting thread to read! I now have Winnie who is just 6 months old and she is my 4th bully. All of my bully's have had crazy quirks, but not too many, maybe because I've had other dogs at the same time (maybe that helped normalize them a little?). One thing I would add to all that has been said is be careful what behavior you laugh at. Our first bully Daisy, one night during a thunderstorm (loud), asked to go out and started attacking the lawn chairs, pulling them around and knocking them over, growling like a ferocious beast. We thought this was hilarious and laughed at her. Forever after that, during a storm (and she wasn't afraid of storms) she would do the same thing. That is just an example. Anytime we laughed at her, that behavior would remain in her repertoire. Anything for a laugh--you know?

  11. #23
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    @Donnam I believe you have hit on a good point. I think that EBD's are more like children and will do things for attention-wether it be GOOD attention or Bad attention. Whenever the dogs and I go outside-Maude will pick up a leaf in her mouth. After a while, I realized that she KNEW that I would say"don't eat leaves,you silly" and now she will pick up a leave every time, but if I ignore her, she drops it and goes on. She will pick it up in her mouth, and I can see she is waiting for me to say what has been said so many times, she actually before you realize what is happening(they have ways...) YOU are trained!
    and I am now wondering how @baxterTiberious is doing at this time, as I have not seen him post lately.
    "
    “It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough,all the components of my heart will be dog,and I will become as generous and loving as they are"

  12. #24
    Bulldog Vet in Training Become a 4 Paw Member Donnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neurosis and Behaviors - Common?

    And another thing, Lynn, all of my bullies have had memories like elephants. They never forget anything! And all of mine have been such creatures of habit, they fall into a routine so easily. Just something else that makes them so interesting and sometimes challenging!

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