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Thread: Attitude and Spiteful

  1. #13
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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Man’s best friend may have more in common with his or her human owners than previously thought.
    For the past two years, neuroscientist Gregory Berns of Emory University has been conducting a series of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans on canines – including his pet terrier Callie – and he says his findings show that dogs have the same capacity to experience emotions, such as love and attachment, as humans.
    In a recent op-ed in The New York Times, Berns argued that this emotional aptitude must mean that “dogs are people, too,” and they should be afforded many of the same rights as people.
    Because dogs cannot speak, Berns said that scientists have relied on behavioral observations to better understand what dogs are thinking. This can be tricky, since researchers cannot truly comprehend why a dog performs a certain action or how the dog feels about it.
    “By looking directly at their brains and bypassing the constraints of behaviorism, MRIs can tell us about dogs’ internal states,” Berns argued in The New York Times.
    Along with his friend Mark Spivak, a dog trainer, Berns trained his dog Callie and other canine volunteers to enter the MRI scanner in order to measure the dogs’ brain responses to two hand signals. Through these tests, Berns noted a striking similarity between dogs and humans in a region of the brain called the caudate nucleus – an area associated with anticipation of things people enjoy.
    “… Many of the same things that activate the human caudate, which are associated with positive emotions, also activate the dog caudate,” Berns wrote in The New York Times. “Neuroscientists call this a functional homology, and it may be an indication of canine emotions.”
    Because of this finding, Berns said it’s possible that dogs experience a level of sentience comparable to human children, suggesting that people should reconsider how they think of their pets.
    “Perhaps someday we may see a case arguing for a dog’s rights based on brain-imaging findings,” Berns wrote in The New York Times










  2. #14
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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Tiberius View Post
    Im still not convinced that animals do anything out of "spite" or even have the first clue what "spite" means.

    Definitely not when there is a significant amount of time between the event the owner thinks is spite-worthy and the spite-ful action the dog supposedly took.

    These are extremely complex emotions we are ascribing to animals that I highly doubt are even capable of processing.

    If I am reading this right, you feel that your dog pee'd on the couch an hour after a walk just because you weren't the one who took him on the walk.

    I don't believe dogs are capable of such complex reasoning, nor do they have the rude / immature nature necessary to create a plan to "get someone back".

    I do believe dogs are capable of feeling negative emotion, as a general "vibe" and that this may result in a lack of effort, motivation, or desire to comply.

    But to cunningly plan a scheme for revenge seems to be putting human traits on an animal.

    In fact i was reading the other day - that its humans erroneous tendency to think that the dog is intentionally disobeying which leads to the mentality of "competition" with the animal, resentment from the owner, and aggressive punishment that often leads to abuse. Most people who have abused animals 99% of the time will immediately tell you that the animal intentionally challenges them.

    I will tell you that the more aggressive, volatile, loud, and rough you are with the dog when you punish him, the more events like this are going to happen. You said he gets aggressive when he's scolded. Are you hitting him? Baxter's worst days potty-training-wise were when ***** I ***** was at my worst emotionally with him. When I was the most fed up. When I was giving off a toxic, negative vibe towards him after weeks of diarrhea all over. They feed off your energy. 1,000%. Conversely his best days were when I was chipper, kind, motivating, gentle, and patient with him.

    Just my $0.02
    I do not agree with what you say, but for the sake of constructive criticism what do you feel the issue is then? And FYI, I do not hit my dog. I will grab his hind end in a large "pinch" and put his rear to the ground. Similar to the grab you would do on their neck. Then I will grab his jaw and have him look in my face as I tell him what he was doing wrong. If I do not adjust his view he will stare at the ground and try to ignore me. I can not say whether or not the previous owners hit him, but he is fairly unagressive. The aggression I do see is when I grab his neck and take him to his bad potty spot to show him what he did wrong. He dosent like to be told he messed up and will growl and snarl up when we get there.

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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Hmmm

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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter Tiberius View Post
    Im still not convinced that animals do anything out of "spite" or even have the first clue what "spite" means.

    Definitely not when there is a significant amount of time between the event the owner thinks is spite-worthy and the spite-ful action the dog supposedly took.

    These are extremely complex emotions we are ascribing to animals that I highly doubt are even capable of processing.

    If I am reading this right, you feel that your dog pee'd on the couch an hour after a walk just because you weren't the one who took him on the walk.

    I don't believe dogs are capable of such complex reasoning, nor do they have the rude / immature nature necessary to create a plan to "get someone back".

    I do believe dogs are capable of feeling negative emotion, as a general "vibe" and that this may result in a lack of effort, motivation, or desire to comply.

    But to cunningly plan a scheme for revenge seems to be putting human traits on an animal.

    In fact i was reading the other day - that its humans erroneous tendency to think that the dog is intentionally disobeying which leads to the mentality of "competition" with the animal, resentment from the owner, and aggressive punishment that often leads to abuse. Most people who have abused animals 99% of the time will immediately tell you that the animal intentionally challenges them.

    I will tell you that the more aggressive, volatile, loud, and rough you are with the dog when you punish him, the more events like this are going to happen. You said he gets aggressive when he's scolded. Are you hitting him? Baxter's worst days potty-training-wise were when ***** I ***** was at my worst emotionally with him. When I was the most fed up. When I was giving off a toxic, negative vibe towards him after weeks of diarrhea all over. They feed off your energy. 1,000%. Conversely his best days were when I was chipper, kind, motivating, gentle, and patient with him.

    Just my $0.02
    Kevin, your post is interesting...have to say I agree. Petunia has recently begun pooping in the house---we recently moved in with new hubby...I think her schedule has been interrupted and, thus, she may feel outta whack...don't think she is doing it out of 'spite'.

    RIP Samson el Torito and Petunia Belle
    May 20, 2000 - June 06, 2008 and November 16, 2004 - April 10, 2015

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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by Largekid View Post
    I do not agree with what you say, but for the sake of constructive criticism what do you feel the issue is then? And FYI, I do not hit my dog. I will grab his hind end in a large "pinch" and put his rear to the ground. Similar to the grab you would do on their neck. Then I will grab his jaw and have him look in my face as I tell him what he was doing wrong. If I do not adjust his view he will stare at the ground and try to ignore me. I can not say whether or not the previous owners hit him, but he is fairly unagressive. The aggression I do see is when I grab his neck and take him to his bad potty spot to show him what he did wrong. He dosent like to be told he messed up and will growl and snarl up when we get there.
    My thought is, if you don't think it is a health issue, you should consider talking to a dog trainer and see what he/she says. SInce you don't really know how he was treated by his previous owners it would only be a guess. However, at this point, best to get the advice of a professional.

    I had a male bully with a strong Alpha personality and I took him to a trainer and he explained a lot to me and also taught me how to discipline him--the do's and don'ts. It was extremely helpful!

    let us know how it turns out!

    RIP Samson el Torito and Petunia Belle
    May 20, 2000 - June 06, 2008 and November 16, 2004 - April 10, 2015

  6. #18
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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentine215 View Post
    Kevin, your post is interesting...have to say I agree. Petunia has recently begun pooping in the house---we recently moved in with new hubby...I think her schedule has been interrupted and, thus, she may feel outta whack...don't think she is doing it out of 'spite'.
    Correct.... Schedule is everything with most canines and especially bulldogs
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
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    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Correct.... Schedule is everything with most canines and especially bulldogs
    You are SO right....came home to find that the Diva had pooped in the dining room...even though the hubby was there and took her out and she pooped when he took her out...what gives???? Is she holding some poop back for later or what? Grrrrrrr....

    RIP Samson el Torito and Petunia Belle
    May 20, 2000 - June 06, 2008 and November 16, 2004 - April 10, 2015

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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentine215 View Post
    You are SO right....came home to find that the Diva had pooped in the dining room...even though the hubby was there and took her out and she pooped when he took her out...what gives???? Is she holding some poop back for later or what? Grrrrrrr....
    Change of schedule= nerves/stress.... More poo
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
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    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




  9. #21
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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyboy View Post
    Man’s best friend may have more in common with his or her human owners than previously thought.
    For the past two years, neuroscientist Gregory Berns of Emory University has been conducting a series of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans on canines – including his pet terrier Callie – and he says his findings show that dogs have the same capacity to experience emotions, such as love and attachment, as humans.
    In a recent op-ed in The New York Times, Berns argued that this emotional aptitude must mean that “dogs are people, too,” and they should be afforded many of the same rights as people.
    Because dogs cannot speak, Berns said that scientists have relied on behavioral observations to better understand what dogs are thinking. This can be tricky, since researchers cannot truly comprehend why a dog performs a certain action or how the dog feels about it.
    “By looking directly at their brains and bypassing the constraints of behaviorism, MRIs can tell us about dogs’ internal states,” Berns argued in The New York Times.
    Along with his friend Mark Spivak, a dog trainer, Berns trained his dog Callie and other canine volunteers to enter the MRI scanner in order to measure the dogs’ brain responses to two hand signals. Through these tests, Berns noted a striking similarity between dogs and humans in a region of the brain called the caudate nucleus – an area associated with anticipation of things people enjoy.
    “… Many of the same things that activate the human caudate, which are associated with positive emotions, also activate the dog caudate,” Berns wrote in The New York Times. “Neuroscientists call this a functional homology, and it may be an indication of canine emotions.”
    Because of this finding, Berns said it’s possible that dogs experience a level of sentience comparable to human children, suggesting that people should reconsider how they think of their pets.
    “Perhaps someday we may see a case arguing for a dog’s rights based on brain-imaging findings,” Berns wrote in The New York Times









    Wow this is cool!!!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

    R.I.P. Duece Man 9-13-14 Gone but not forgotten, always in our hearts! Till we meet again over the Bridge, Mommy misses you.

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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    I'm always amazed how bullies react to stress (change, etc) so much
    more than other breeds and especially shown w/potty incidents.

    How long have you had Nismo? His previous homes/treatment could
    have a lot with what's going on. I'm on my 2nd rehomed bully and took
    care of my son's gf's bully while she completed college, 2 males & now,
    a female. Both my rehomes came w/potty issues and both took time to
    resolve. Negative energy & confrontation DID NOT work, bullies are so
    very sensitive, not just because bullie owners say so...just true fact. I'm
    impatient by nature & have a temper, I had to learn that blaming, shaming
    & yelling DID NOT work (w/my bullies). Calm, assertive, kind & positive
    reinforcement~rewarding good behavior, ignoring bad~consistent schedules
    (on my part) over about 2 months worked. I did have to take the privilege of
    sleeping on the bed or being on the couch away for both and restore back.
    Both would pee on any pad, bed, towel in crates (some bullies just will) but
    did learn to go potty outside & stopped peeing on bed/sofa. Brutus was 3-4
    y/o & had many previous owners, Cami is almost 6 y/o & a retired breeder,
    I adopted her from the owners that adopted her from breeder. Neutering
    may help, he may be marking now that he's 'settling in' but I can say that
    shaming him (at 2 y/o) isn't helping him or you, not criticizing you just telling
    you my experience espc w/my male bully.

    Bullies need to be respected (more than other breeds) in my opinion and are
    unbelievably FOOD motivated. I would really woo him, greet him w/piece of
    kibble or dog treat, treat every time he alerts you to go potty outside (both
    mine had to learn this, gave no signals at all) and treat when they do, no bed
    or sofa until potty outside has been consistently established. When he pees in
    the house, do not scold him (you may scold the pee spot), take outside, if he
    pees, treat & praise effusively. Until peeing only outside, do not leave uncrated
    inside unless home w/you. If he sneaks off & pees then leash inside beside you.
    When he loves on you, love back...you need to bond w/him not hold resentment.

    Bullies are not like other breeds, do not respond like other breeds. If you decide you
    want his love, loyalty & a relationship w/him then YOU must work for it and earn it.
    Most bullies will not just 'give it' unlike many breeds that will & do. There are reasons
    for his behavior, you need to find out the WHY. Do take him in & rule out UTI, also, are
    you feeding grain free, he may need potato free, could have yeast infection, check this
    too as they will pee a lot. Give this a couple months and see if there is a change.

    He is so very worth it. I too, felt and acted out w/resentment with my male, Brutus.
    Once I stopped & did all the above, our relationship became wonderful. Just a thought,
    you might not have established trust between you, I hadn't and didn't realize it until a
    crisis one day over pee in the house, yet again. I clearly saw MY behavior & reactions
    was part of the problem and also, clearly saw, we did not have full trust...again, MY
    fault. One month later, all was resolved and we were happy, in love & it was everything
    I could have ever asked for...Brutus was a great bully in every way, it was me that had
    to understand and change MYSELF...and so grateful I did!

    Good luck and let us know...GOD bless y'all. Will keep y'all in prayer.


    My 1st bully, Brutus
    RIP beloved boy.

  11. #23
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    Default Re: Attitude and Spiteful

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Carol View Post
    I'm always amazed how bullies react to stress (change, etc) so much
    more than other breeds and especially shown w/potty incidents.

    How long have you had Nismo? His previous homes/treatment could
    have a lot with what's going on. I'm on my 2nd rehomed bully and took
    care of my son's gf's bully while she completed college, 2 males & now,
    a female. Both my rehomes came w/potty issues and both took time to
    resolve. Negative energy & confrontation DID NOT work, bullies are so
    very sensitive, not just because bullie owners say so...just true fact. I'm
    impatient by nature & have a temper, I had to learn that blaming, shaming
    & yelling DID NOT work (w/my bullies). Calm, assertive, kind & positive
    reinforcement~rewarding good behavior, ignoring bad~consistent schedules
    (on my part) over about 2 months worked. I did have to take the privilege of
    sleeping on the bed or being on the couch away for both and restore back.
    Both would pee on any pad, bed, towel in crates (some bullies just will) but
    did learn to go potty outside & stopped peeing on bed/sofa. Brutus was 3-4
    y/o & had many previous owners, Cami is almost 6 y/o & a retired breeder,
    I adopted her from the owners that adopted her from breeder. Neutering
    may help, he may be marking now that he's 'settling in' but I can say that
    shaming him (at 2 y/o) isn't helping him or you, not criticizing you just telling
    you my experience espc w/my male bully.

    Bullies need to be respected (more than other breeds) in my opinion and are
    unbelievably FOOD motivated. I would really woo him, greet him w/piece of
    kibble or dog treat, treat every time he alerts you to go potty outside (both
    mine had to learn this, gave no signals at all) and treat when they do, no bed
    or sofa until potty outside has been consistently established. When he pees in
    the house, do not scold him (you may scold the pee spot), take outside, if he
    pees, treat & praise effusively. Until peeing only outside, do not leave uncrated
    inside unless home w/you. If he sneaks off & pees then leash inside beside you.
    When he loves on you, love back...you need to bond w/him not hold resentment.

    Bullies are not like other breeds, do not respond like other breeds. If you decide you
    want his love, loyalty & a relationship w/him then YOU must work for it and earn it.
    Most bullies will not just 'give it' unlike many breeds that will & do. There are reasons
    for his behavior, you need to find out the WHY. Do take him in & rule out UTI, also, are
    you feeding grain free, he may need potato free, could have yeast infection, check this
    too as they will pee a lot. Give this a couple months and see if there is a change.

    He is so very worth it. I too, felt and acted out w/resentment with my male, Brutus.
    Once I stopped & did all the above, our relationship became wonderful. Just a thought,
    you might not have established trust between you, I hadn't and didn't realize it until a
    crisis one day over pee in the house, yet again. I clearly saw MY behavior & reactions
    was part of the problem and also, clearly saw, we did not have full trust...again, MY
    fault. One month later, all was resolved and we were happy, in love & it was everything
    I could have ever asked for...Brutus was a great bully in every way, it was me that had
    to understand and change MYSELF...and so grateful I did!

    Good luck and let us know...GOD bless y'all. Will keep y'all in prayer.
    Every word if it absolutely true!!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

    R.I.P. Duece Man 9-13-14 Gone but not forgotten, always in our hearts! Till we meet again over the Bridge, Mommy misses you.

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