Vinny took a big step back. Help

Rosie1989

New member
Dec 22, 2012
10
1
Bulldog(s) Names
Vincent (vinnie)
Ok tonight vinny has taken a giant step back. Although he has always been less respectful of me he has always respected my boyfriend. Tonight he growled at me so we both stood up, put his leash on and walked him in to his crate. He then turned and snapped at my boyfriend in an aggressive manner. I don't know what to do. Does anyone know any good trainers in the New York area? Or we are going to have to look for a new home for him which I would hate but I'm starting to think he is just unhappy living in an apartment. This was the original reason we got an English bulldog as I was told they were good apartment dogs but he is more of an old English bulldog size and needs more running time, please any help.
 

Sherry

New member
Jan 15, 2011
5,183
477
Denver PA
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Jack , Dolly, Grizz, Peggy Sue, and Scrimps
oh Rosie, I'm so sorry to hear this, you are right about the old English, they have more energy and need some exercise. He may be very very bored. If you have a treadmill you could have him walk on that
 

nycbullymama

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2012
5,182
476
Country
usa
Bulldog(s) Names
b and w
Ok tonight vinny has taken a giant step back. Although he has always been less respectful of me he has always respected my boyfriend. Tonight he growled at me so we both stood up, put his leash on and walked him in to his crate. He then turned and snapped at my boyfriend in an aggressive manner. I don't know what to do. Does anyone know any good trainers in the New York area? Or we are going to have to look for a new home for him which I would hate but I'm starting to think he is just unhappy living in an apartment. This was the original reason we got an English bulldog as I was told they were good apartment dogs but he is more of an old English bulldog size and needs more running time, please any help.

I've heard good things about "Andrea Arden". They have group classes and do private training. Google them.
 

Casper

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2013
1,716
215
Slidell, Louisiana, United States
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
"The Stallone Bros"
Rosie, in my honest opinion, and this may not be held by anyone else!, I wouldn't give up my pet.... He's challenged you for dominance, Alpha Dog, pack leader. I'd keep him on his leash, I'd use the crate as your doing, I'd continue what your doing now, and when vinnie is showing bad behavior, I would confront it, just as you and your b/f did. The second but most urgent thing I would do if I were you, Please follow me, have a little faith here please, Order this book immediately....Title "The Art of Raising a Puppy by Monks of New Skete" This book is world renound, I've personally used it in my day to day activities, It covers behavior, it covers pack leader, it shows how to take the leadership back, and out of almost 1,000 votes it's rated 4 star, I personally would give it 5, because if you read and understand it, then follow the same principles, you will define yourself in your pack, and Vinnie will be a lot more responsive and happy to let you be the leader, this all done without aggression. I would definitely do this before I gave up my pet!!! English Bull Dogs do thrive in apartment spaces, and do so very well, You'll probably learn, again in my opinion, That Vinnie has bonded to your boyfriend, and is jelous of your interactions with him! possesive... Jealousy... and challenging you. In my opinion this is what I would do, and maybe others have good or better ideas, This is just one i've used, and it's worked tremendously well for me. If you choose to do this, Please give the book 100%, follow it to the letter, and don't look back, T8k back your pack. Hope this helps.
 
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Rural mystic

New member
Jan 1, 2013
1,600
105
North Florida
Country
United States
Bulldog(s) Names
Ace
I have an Olde English Bulldogge as well. And yes typically they need more exercise than an EB. Ace's most rambunctious in the morning after being in his crate at night and after he has his first meal. But the biggie is at the end of the day around 6:45 he REALLY needs to have the razor edge burned off a bit. So what I do is when I get home in the evening I take both dogs out to do their business and let them walk around in the yard then I put the maltese Gabe back in the house and leash Ace for some training, mostly right now walking on leash, heel and so forth. Stopping, turning and having him stand and sit on command while I walk him around along the perimeter of the property outside of the fenced in area. Then I take him back in and feed both dogs then back outside with Ace for some exercise off leash in the fenced in area. I try, with whatever activity I choose to get him running and etc to burn off as much energy as I can get him to. As for the snapping and growling. Don't let him do it. Easier said than done but whatever means you need to use it can't be tolerated. I'm sure you already know that and honestly I don't have much of an issue with Ace as far as that goes with him getting testy with me. My issue is Ace wanting to tackle and dominate the maltese. And I don't tolerate it. Can't. Too much bad can happen. But do try and get the razor edge off of your dog by some exercise. Hope that helps. They are much more compliant when they are tired
 

kazzy220

..........
Jul 31, 2010
8,556
441
Grafton, OHIO
Country
England
Bulldog(s) Names
Maggie (My Angel Baby 5/31/2012). Daddy (2 years). Linus (1year). Bella (4 years)
I just answered this in your original thread where you put your update. I will repeat briefly what I put in that thread......... two steps forward, and one step back. It happens ALL the time. Be consistent and continue as you are. Tomorrow is another day!! :2thumbs:
 

Twice

My Bully Gave Me Wings
Feb 3, 2012
2,686
311
Woodbridge Township, NJ
Bulldog(s) Names
Abby (my Sweetie Head 10.24.11-11.23.12) and Otis
(I didn't realize that you were the same person in the other thread... sorry... I'm sleepy :( )

I also have an Olde English Bullbrat and he has TONS of energy (almost as much as my Great Dane!). Once a medical reason is ruled out I would take him for longer walks or maybe let him run off some of that energy at a dog park. I seriously doubt he is unhappy with you. He probably just needs to stretch his legs a little more often and learn his place in the house. From your other post it seems he is learning where he sits, now he just needs to burn off some of that energy.


edit to add something...

whoever said EB's were low energy dogs mustve come off his meds. I've had a bunch of bulldogs in my house over the past 6 months. Not one of them were what I would call calm or lazy lol
 
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RaRett

Oogle Me on Google
Community Veteran
Apr 15, 2012
1,475
194
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Missi -- With Gizmo and Hershey never far from my heart
a Tired Puppy is a Happy Puppy, I was always told. Exercise for all of you, great bonding, and it stimulates the pup, and wears him out too ! I wish I had more answers for you :(
 

Baconator

.........
Apr 12, 2012
2,969
127
Northern NJ
Bulldog(s) Names
Bacon
I don't know of any trainers that I would recommend in the area, I would recommend googling "nothing in life is free" basically it's a reward system that you use with your bully to emphasize that you are alpha. Things such as hand feeding and making him sit/stay for his food. I understand he may have more energy then your run of the mill bully but that does not excuse him snapping at you, being rambunctious and running amok is a different story. Please don't give up on him, you've done a great job up until now, he just needs some more work.
 

cali~jenn

..........
Mar 28, 2010
0
419
Southern California
Bulldog(s) Names
Cutty, Miila and Mugsy the pug :)
I answered on your other thread too. In short, keep up the great work you were doing. It was working and will take much time to get it locked into him. ;)
 

ModernFemme

Arts'y bulldog farts'y
Community Veteran
Oct 5, 2012
882
61
Delaware
Bulldog(s) Names
Sir Remington (Remi)
Sorry, my reply is ridiculously long.

I was tagged in this post. Someone probably thought I could help you because of my journey with Remi. Even as a young pup, after 3-4 long walks a day, he still would act like a rabid dog sometimes. He was never too tired to lose his mind and act inappropriately. He's always been a ridiculous nipper. Sometimes even now, if he doesn't get his way, he'll lunge at me, nipping at me and biting at my clothes. But I'll be honest, a few times in the past, I was scared of him. It didn't help that he would accidentally draw blood on a weekly basis. I now take it for what it is - a temper tantrum by a really strong dog.

Once, many months ago, when I was trying to break up a little scuffle he was having with my cat, I pulled him away and he totally growled at me. It startled me. (Okay. It scared the **** out of me) These kind of dogs in general, they sound menacing, and it can be difficult to tell what is straight out aggressive, and what is throwing a temper tantrum. I believe Remi was acting aggressively and I curbed the behavior in a nick of time. He is now a total sweet heart and I don't worry about him hurting me or other people anymore.

The whole issue for us was building trust. (Crazy right?!) In the case above with the cat, Now when I tell him to come, and walk past the scary cat, he listens, instead of growling and chasing. Instead of acting out in an aggressive way when he's afraid, he takes a more submissive role because he knows I'm going to handle it.

I can tell you attitude is everything with this and not everything that is proposed to you will work. However the people here are outstanding with their advice, and I have no idea what I would have done without them. I tried every suggestion offered, and here is what personally worked for us. If this doesn't work, don't give up!!

1) Hand feeding. It sounds silly, and can sometimes be gross, but it's just direct symbolism that he eats because you allow it. We started off hardcore, letting him eat right out of are hands, while teaching him to be "gentle" while eating, and making him do obedience commands for his next bite. We do the same thing now, but we spare ourselves the disgusting part by dropping food into his bowl from the scooper instead of getting his drool all over our hands, but I definitely recommend the former to start out with. Do this for every meal, and let your boy friend do the same, so he can begin establishing himself as a leader of the pack. I wish I started this sooner. ALSO - this goes hand in hand with don't give him anything for free. If you want to give him an ice cube, make him sit first. Before you give him water, make him do something. Be a total hardass - it'll pay off in the end.

2) Avoid Triggers. For example, I used to love watching TV at night with Remi on the couch, but it got to the point where all he did was try to hump me. AND I TRIED EVERYTHING. I saved myself the frustration by cutting out that habit completely by not even going there and allowing him to escalate. The longer you can "prevent" the triggers, the more they will get over them in my personal opinion. They grow out of it, especially when you start changing so many other things and figure out what works for you and how to correct them. (Btw, now I can lay on the couch fine with Remi and he only tries to hump every now and again, and with a correction, he's over it)

3) Walk Vinny and spend time with him. I know that seems kind of silly, but when I started going on walks with Remi one on one, we really bonded. If you go out as a pack, let your boy friend walk him. You may want to get a trainer for this one, it can be a challenge, because you'll definitely want the dog at your side and not pulling. Exercise always makes dogs more happy. I know I'm cranky if I'm sitting around all day. Obedience training is literally the best, most fun bonding experience.

4) Find the right correction. I have tried everything from submitting, (and lets be honest, when a dog turns 50 pounds, it's more like wrestling) can of coins, spray bottle, loud yips, yelling, shoving, timeouts. Submitting has NEVER worked for us. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS. (Can you tell were getting frustrated?) It just gets him all worked up and pissed off. Plus there will be a point where they are just too strong, and if you truly have an aggressive dog, it's just plain dangerous. This worked well on my husky, but terrible, so very terrible, on our bulldog. They are quite sensitive and any "violence" towards them, including a playful slap to the butt with a newspaper really grates on them. (This also includes shoving them off of you if humping. Trust me, I've tried it all.) What I can say is that a more delicate approach has always worked, but it does take a ridiculous amount of patience and a pair of balls. I recommend taking the dog by the collar, gently, and putting him in his crate. The leash is fine, but if your dog is anything like mine, he will just be super annoying and try to bite at it all the time.

Many here will disagree with me because a crate should always be a happy place, but realistically, there is absolutely no other place safer for a puppy who happens to be a Hoover, which is important for this next step. Typically, under normal circumstances, there are plenty of toys in the crate, and I always throw in a few treats every single time we put him in there. When he gets a TIME OUT - I gently place him in there and close the door without giving him a treat, and then I leave the room. Leaving the room is important, because it's not the crate that's the punishment, it's the isolation. For Remi, he generally needs a good 30 minutes on average to chill the hell out.

Here is another important tip. Do not let him out until he lays down on command. If he refuses, he's not acknowledging you as pack leader and may try to start off where you left off the last time you placed him in. If he refuses the first 2 times, ask him every 5 minutes thereafter. When he lays down, let him out and give him a ton of love and then act like nothing happened. This has worked ridiculous miracles for us. Bulldogs are stubborn, and I usually have to ask more than once, but it's a total game changer.

The can of coins works awesome for minor offences, like not listening when I ask him to get "down" off a surface, but does not work for everything. Plus overusing it will make it lose it's impact.

5) Last but not least, if you think Vinny is starting to escalate to nut job status, bust out the treats and make him do obedience commands. It totally distracts them and they become a lot more pleasant. Do it for at least 5 minutes. Plus it's great exercise.

In closing, the best thing you can do is for you and your bf to be on the same page and doing everything consistently. Anyway, I hope this stuff helped. If your dog continues to growl after you give this a solid couple of months, I would definitely seek out a behavioralist. GOOD LUCK - we're here if you need us.

DON'T GIVE UP!!!!!!
 
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JAKEISGREAT

.................
Mar 25, 2011
14,802
1,155
Southern California
Bulldog(s) Names
Jake
You've gotten really great advice. You mustn't doubt yourself. One day even one hour at a time. Like Kazzy said..there will be steps backward. You just get your bearings and move forward. Eventually, he will move forward with you. It's like raising children...you wouldn't give up when they hit puberty...you just keep going. :up:
 

Vicaroo1000

"Slug Assassin" and PBS Gardening Dweeb
Jun 23, 2011
5,775
389
Mukilteo, Washington State
Bulldog(s) Names
Beefeater's Buxom Beatrice and Lord Harrington's Bodacious Beauregaard
Sorry, my reply is ridiculously long.

GOOD LUCK - we're here if you need us.

DON'T GIVE UP!!!!!!

...and ridiculously awesome!

One of the best posts ever. Don't we have an award for something like this? You deserve it. GOOD STUFF.
 

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