URGENT!!! Gretchen's behavior has gotten worse

[Sherry]

thanks for your advice. Ill try it and keep everyone informed. What suggestions do you have if they pee in the house. same thing- crate for few minutes or should I put her outside for a bit. she knows you pee outside. plus she won't go off the deck half the time so she pees and poops on the deck. its a hassle cleaning it. anything I can do there?

I'm sensing you are very confused. Exhale little mama. This is your dog and you want her to trust you. she has some issues but none that can't be improved upon. She seems to be very unsure of what you want from her. and she's liking the attention. I assume you have snuggle time with her. That's very important for the trust. Consistency is another form of trust, she'll know what she can expect from you. I believe if you back off on questioning yourself and control your reaction when she pees on the floor, just take her out immediately to the spot you want her to go at. take some time when no one is around and teach her to drop things . Make it a game. give her a toy of her's , sit with her , hold a treat and tell her to drop it. get the treat closer to her and when she drops the toy tell her good girl and really praise her. now give her the treat and a hug, do this about 4 times a day. it will only take a few minutes. but it will instill her the trust you share. do for her and yourself. let me know how you make out , it's worth a shot

 

[Davidh]

Well I have read all this and you have some great advise, but it doesn't mean squat if you do not have the time and patience to follow through with this. A crate should be their happy place, a place they can go to relax and feel safe, not a place for punishment. She was a rescue and you do not know her past and how much abuse she had. In my option a daycare with a bunch of screaming kids is no place for a scared, unstable bully. One day a child will get bit and then she will be put down. During the day when the kids are there, I would keep her away from them, have her in a quiet place in the house. Sounds like you are very busy during the day and that's ok, but she may need more attention than you can give right now. I think she needs to be in a quiet home, where she can get plenty on attention and training. Nothing against you, but she just needs that type of environment. A scared dog is a dog on the defensive and will protect themselves. When she is hiding under the table, leave her there until she calms down and is not scared any longer. Get her to come out with a treat, and then some love. If she keeps getting worse then maybe it's time to find her a quiet home with no kids. I know I won't be Mr. Popular for saying that but sometime we just need to think what is best for the bully. Sorry if any of this offends you, it is not my intent to do that, just throwing out my opinion. I am a breeder and have been around dogs all my life.

 

[Texas Carol]

I'm sorry but as I came back to check on how things are going, I'm concerned
for everyone's sake and also feeling sad for you and for Gretchen. Please don't
take this the wrong way, I'm not blaming or judging but if things continue the way
it's going, someone is going to get hurt and Gretchen will pay with her life.

Bullies aren't for every one, they are sensitive, stubborn, quirky & weird and a few
are problematic & will always be.They have to be loved & accepted for who & what
they are and if the person can't do it, then another home needs to be found. I've
had a couple (not bullies) rescues that just did not FIT with me and vice versa, they
did not care for me...it happens.

Gretchen sounds high strung, fearful and non trusting, very challenging issues and
your particular home (daycare) and your expectations of her behavior are not
realistic given her background, she will take a LOT of time & patience to come
around...are YOU willing to give her this? Can you give her this? If not, then do what
is best for all concerned and rehome her to a quiet home, maybe with the person
home a lot with her.

I am very stressed, depressed & anxious in my life right now and when my Brutus
died suddenly and after a few months, deciding to adopt another bully, I passed on
some great bullies I WANTED badly but thought the match up was not right. It was
difficult saying no but w/time, patience & help-thank you again, dear friend...
@Davidh...I adopted the perfect bully for me and all that I have going on in my life.

Cami has been with me, 4 weeks on Wednesday and we're settling in to our new
reality now, just now getting her trust, her loyalty, her love...yes, we are still
working on potty issues, following commands, etc but hey...it takes time and it's
not a given...it's earned by us...it's a blessing not an entitlement that a dog bonds
to us. Bullies even more so, no one will ever make them do anything if they don't
want to do it, it's just the way they are, period. Some people can't handle that and
that's okay...there are hundreds of other breeds to chose from that are better
suited in that case.

If you can't love & accept Gretchen right now, where she is in her head, at present
then perhaps you need to let her go and move on...not saying she should STAY like
she is but really, doesn't every relationship start with acceptance THEN working
TOGETHER on issues? I believe you are expecting too much, too soon and poor
Gretchen just isn't ready to be able to do what you ask of her...not yet.

I say all this respectfully & hopefully, not to harm or hurt but to help. Much love, Carol

 

[michelle23093]

I fully intend to stick this out with her I just asked for advice. The kids don't bother her or the noise. Actually she's good with them. I just get mixed advice and I try everyone's to see what works for her. They are al different. I spoke with a local dog trainer who offered me advice.

 

[michelle23093]

Im confused here. I am new that this rescue thing and the last thing I want to do is stress her out to the point someone gets hurt. I see alot of differnt people on here with much different advice. I have tried it all. I don't want to be fussed out or judged cause I tried some ones advice. I am not professessional and I don't know if I wouldn't have asked. I have taken in many rescues but never a bull dog. I did my research before getting her but books don't protey the real life version or the way a resuce will respond. thats why I was glad I found this group. alot of small issues have been resolved by asking for advice from the members here so I am thankful for this group. However now that I have a problem have 3 pages of differnt approches. I don't want to be judged for trying them all. it never hurts to try anything. Gretchen gets plenty of love and one on one time during the day even if I am busy. she gets special attention at certain times.. she also is ackwoldged when Im busy. I am not negleting that. she gets some free range with the kids but but all day. she has to earn that trust. she doesn't harm them in anyway. she did have a spell with my kids on the swing set but that has stopped. she realizes that she can't go near them or she has to go inside. she learned very quickly. It just freaked me out at first. I thought it was gonna be a huge problem but that resolved quickly. As far as the crate situation. some of you say crate some say not. She has a crate and a exercise pen with door open in my kitchen side by side. she has fre range of either during the day. I only crate her as a time out like a child for a few minutes. she knows she has done wrong. I have to crate her versus just put her in the kitchen with the gate becasue she pees on the floor on purpose if I put her in the kitchen behind the gate. she doesn't pee in her crate. she loves her comfy bed. She sleeps with my beagle during the day in theexercise pen. she loves it. I never use that for punishment. she rarely has to go in her crate when we leave becasue 9 times out of 1o some one didn't go. She was crated all day every day for a long time. last thing I want to do is make her think thats how her life is gonna be. But she has to know that she is now loved and if she wants to keep that love and her freedom that she has to follow rules. same as a child. I don't like to smack her and its not something I do on a regular basis but sometimes I have to get her attntion. I have now stopped that becasue she is in fear of what I might do becasue I don't know her past. I don't know if she was beaten or mistreated. I get that from her actions. much like a child reactions to things- you can tell what they are afraid of. I have had alot of experience with that. some behavior she does can be corrected and some is gonna take time. I am willing to put in the effort. I have been trying to work on one thing at a time with her not to overwhelm her. some things have really improved and some have not. some days shes a angel and others she is not. I know she had a bad past but we can't tip toe around her bad past for the rest of our lives. she will rule us. she has been here a week or so shy of 2 months. she should know by now that we love her. For good ness sakes she has more stuff than my other dog that has been here for year. I cook her home made treat and food. She has her own spot on the bed and she has her own basket of toys. she knows she is loved and gets plenty. I contacted a trainer in my area for advice. Hopefully she will help me.

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

Awww Michelle. No one here means to sound judgmental. I think part of the problem is us NOT knowing exactly how you are dealing with her problems. We get different questions for what seems to be the same root problem. In my case, my biggest concern, is her being around the children. My thoughts remain the same...she should be removed from the hustle and bustle of a busy house full of kids during the day. Either in a crate or a small penned area. She won't mind. And with any dog, any form of punishment that involves swatting or hitting wont work..but in her case, you will destroy any progress you've made.

I think a trainer/behaviorist is the right choice. We only wish the best for you and Gretchen. You are her chance for a stable life.

 

[cowsmom]

well im no behavourist for sure but i do have a dog now in my possession who was a table dog also. he spent the first 3 days i had him under the kitchen table and i actually called him table dog. he also had aggression issues if i tried to correct him by swatting his behind lightly. yes that was before i knew you werent supposed to do that esp with a fearful dog. i also tried submitting him one day when he wouldnt come to me outside and got aggressive toward me when i was speaking loudly to him and i got bit for my effort. so i had to try something different with him. i soon realized that any type of raised voice caused him to tremble and such. he would also act crazy in the car and just a weird dog. so what to do. well i gave him lots of love first off. when he would do something bad i would speak calmly to him and make my movement slow and deliberate. if i wanted him off the bed and he wouldnt come i would slowly reach and if he reacted i would stop and wait and then proceeed. he had to understand i would not hurt him. i would then tell him no and why it was bad behaviour. if it was bad enough i would put him in his pen outside alone for a bit. i take him for walks as leash training is a wonderful thing and walking your dog teaches them to trust you and that you decide what they do. he would look at me when he was bad like are you going to get rid of me to and id say no duke this is your last home. its nothing that comes overnight and take effort but it can happen. some things about him have never gone but for the most part he is a happy healthy dog now. if he would not come to me i would get on the ground at his level to call him and only then will he come sometimes. dogs are like kids i think in that you have to tailor how you act with them to well them. perhaps keep the bully away from the kids till you can establish trust and the behaviour you want then allow them access. im no expert by any means just have been through a fearful dog who is now a functional dog. perhaps leashing him while in the house will help. i have a bully now who is harnessed and leashed in the house for her aggression issues that came up. i would take her with me where i went and made her sit before eating getting treats and such. she sat by me and was with me if i was sitting anywhere. slowly she is allowed freedom and now i have not had an issue with her for like 3 weeks now. perhaps watch some ceasar millon tapes or some other dog trainer who perhaps can give you some ideas on how to proceed. lots of people learn from the pros who dont have the cash for an actual person to come to their home. i really hope things work out for you and your bully so you can have a happy home. i am just relating my story is all hopefully you will find something in there to help.

 

[nycbullymama]

She started doing really well but not she does bad things then goes to hide and if u get near her she bites u and growls. Tonight she went after the cat over and over. She had stopped. She now goes out on the deck and pees versus ground. She just randomly decides to nip for no reason. This has gotten very overwhelming and hard to understand what I can do. She's just more like a big child with horrible issues. What's your suggestion. I have tried alot of different approaches. If she does something wrong and hides under the table. Well that's no acceptable to me. I don't let my kids get away with that. I can't afford a trainer like I would love to be able too. Please help .

Will the Rescue where you got her from be willing to help with a trainer?
I know many Rescues do.

 

[michelle23093]

thanks so much cowsmom. that was very encouraging.

- - - Updated - - -

rescue is in Florida and I live in Virginia

 

[bluesteelapd]

I just want to say this: We are all here to learn and share stories so that others may learn as well, and hopefully not make the same mistakes we did. I am not here to judge anyone, however, there are times, when I might come across as a bit harsh in my ideas (such as, I have never, nor will I ever, spank, tap, hit an animal). If you can look past that and get to the meat of what I'm trying to say, great. We all have different ideas and yes, I'm sure it can get confusing, but I do also think we stand united on certain schools of thought.
Good Luck. Please continue to post here and not only seek advise but also post pictures that we can all oggle over.

 

[nycbullymama]

thanks so much cowsmom. that was very encouraging.

- - - Updated - - -

rescue is in Florida and I live in Virginia

I would contact them anyway. They may still be something they can do even though you're in Virginia.

 

[michelle23093]

How do I post pictures

 

[michelle23093]

Gretchen has started to respect me somewhat. She listens better. I did decide that the crate was for her to enjoy when do is open and when door is closed she is having a time out. I just say time out and she goes. She doesn't do the same thing when she gets out like before. Still working on some issues. Gonna take her to some obedience classes after we get her fixed. Was suppose to do last month but she was still bleeding from heat and they wouldn't do it. Hopefully get her all healed and off to right direction.

 

[michelle23093]

How do u add pictures to ur replies. Want to send a few cute ones

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

How do u add pictures to ur replies. Want to send a few cute ones

Michelle ..at bottom of reply box..see "Go Advanced"?? Click that..you will be given options for adding pics..from album or photobucket etc. also manage Attachments will do thumbnails!