General Question K-9 Military School?

[Twice]

Training Athena is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be. Who knew a dog bigger than me would be so hard Anyway, someone sent me this and said it would work for Otis too. Do you think there is any validity to these techniques?

Military School is designed as a problem-solving tool. Some of the items will be used for the rest of the dog's life--paritcularly suggest the feeding regimen, possession, the song, and the roadwork. Other items will be done only until the dog understands his position in society.
When he graduates, release him from the items one at a time over a period of several weeks, watching for him to go back to his old ways. Many people send the dog to Military School one month in six as a preventative measure. If there is any part of Military School that is liable to get you bitten while you're doing it, DONT DO IT and GET HELP from a competent trainer.

1) Umbilical Cord: As much as possible when you are at home, keep the dog on leash and with you. Put a 6'leash on the dog, and attach the other end of the leash to a sturdy belt around your waist. Ignore the dog and go about your business. Having to constantly watch what you do and where you go will not only bond the dog to you, but will help make you important in his eyes.

2) Eye contact x 2: for up to 3 minutes twice a day, sit down with the dog sitting between your knees, and use a command such as Watch Me to get eye contact. If necessary, you might actually hold the dogs's face to get eye contact.

3) Obedience x 2: Twice a day, run quickly through an obedience session using whatever the dog knows how to do--sit, down, come, stay, heel: repeat as needed. Train for 5 minutes each session. Do NOT touch the dog to praicse him--DO use voice praise only.

4) Feed x 2: When food is left down for the dog to eat ad lib, the dog owns the food. Ownership is what dominance is all about, so we must take possession of the food. Feed the dog twice a day, in a confined area such as a crate or the bathroom.
Use a feeding ritual: ask him if he's hungry, ask him to help find his dish, to help find the food, ask him again if he's hungry, tell him to go to his area or get in his crate, give him the food. As soon as he's finished, or as soon as he turns away from his food, or if he doesnt begin eating immediately, take the dish away, throw away the food, and clean the dish. If the dog is not successful at eating (doesnt't eat his whole meal), give him half the regular amount at his next meal, until he is cleaning the bottom of the dish. A successful meal means he gets more at his next meal, until he is eating the amount that will keep him in optimum condition. The food must be high quality and low bulk. Water should be freely available all day. Give no treats in the food or by hand.
Dogs love rituals and you are teaching his body to get ready to eat when he hears the beginnning of the ritual.

5) Possession is 9/10 of the law: At least once a day, roll the dog over on the floor or on your lap, and handle him. Repeat the words "These are my ears", "This is my paw", "This is my muzzle", "This is my tail" as you handle him. If he struggles, express your annoyance with a growl(low intimidating voice)and a little (but firm) shake, and start again. Its important that the dog doesnt get away: then he has informed you that he owns his muzzle, and that cant be true. When he is compleately relaxed and accepts your ownership, say OK and release him.

6) Long Down-Stay: Do one 3 minute Down-Stay every day. You can watch TV but the dog must be in plain sight and you must be aware of him. He can roll over, go to sleep, and look annoyed or bored, but he cannot get up or walk away.

7) I'm-The-Mommy Down: At least once a day, just because you felt like it, tell the dog to lie down. When he does, use your voice ONLY to tell him he did a good job, say Okay, and walk away.

8) Music Soothes: Make up a little song which includes the dogs name, make eye contact and sing it to him at least once a day. It doesnt have to rhyme, but it should make you both laugh. This reminds both you and the dog that life isnt always going to be this hard, and you do want to be friends when your're done. Here'my song for my Giant Schnauzer Spider:
Itsy bitsy Spider ate the water spout, ate the kitchen chair and some sauerkraut, chased a cat and chewed her ball, went to bed and said "that's all"!

9) Bosshood is in the Eye of the Beholder: Consider life from the dog's point of view. He sleeps where he wants, he eats when he wants, he leads you around. Any wonder he gets the impression that he's the Boss?
Dont allow him to go through doors ahead of you. Dont allow him to go up or down stairs ahead of you. Dont allow him to lead you down hallways. Always position him so you are leading and he is following. If he's lying down, dont walk around him. Put your feet on the floor and shuffle right through him (you dont kick the dog, merely push him gently out of the way): make him think about where you are and what you're doing. When he orders you to let him out, take charge of going outside. Build a ritual around the door. Focus his attention on you: Do you want to go out? Go to the door? Want to go out? Sit. Down. Sit. Stay. Then open the door and order him out: Okay, go outside! You change the situaltion so you are in charge of it.
Keep the dog on the floor. Not on the couch, not on the chair, not halfway up the stairs surveying his domain, not in your lap, not on the car seat. On the floor. Dont leave the dog loose in the house or yard when you're not home. Free run of the house when the Boss isnt home allows the dog to fell powerful and in charge. Dont allow the dog to sleep on your bed, or on a child's bed. Dogs recognize the bed as a throne for the Boss.
If he sleeps away from you, however, he will think that you own the bedroom, but he owns the rest of the house. The dog should sleep in your bedroom. If you cant have him sleeping in your bedroom (allergies, for instance), confine him to his crate.

10) Work off Energy: Roadwork the dog 4 days a week. Start small, but work up to a mile for small dogs, 2 miles for medium dogs and 3 miles for large dogs. Many problems will disappear with no more effort than roadworking. You can jog with the dog, or ride a bike, or longe him with a flexilead, or use a motorised trike, or lend him to a jogger who's afraid of being mugged.
Note: try and do roadwork on soft ground (not concrete or pavement) and dont force exercise a Dane younger than 20 months.

11) Busy Hands Are Happy Hands: If you want to pet the dog, he must first do pushups: sit, down, sit, down, sit, down, sit, down: then you can pet him for a count of 5 only. He never gets petted because he wants to be or because he demands it, only because you want to and he earns it. Then you pet him for only a moment, and turn away with him wanting more.

12) My Game, My Rules: Give the dog only one toy. If he wants to chase the toy, bring it to you and let you have it, throw it again. If he wont chase it, or wont give it to you, turn your back and walk away. He has two choices, he can play with you and the toy, or he can play with the toy alone. Do not , under any circumstances, play tug-of-war. When you can get the toy without chasing him or playing tug, pick it up and put it away.

13) Elimante Hormones: Have problem dogs neutered. Many problems will solve themselves with no more effort than this. Not only will the dog be healthier and easier to live with, but your life will be made simpler, and you eliminate the possibility of your problem dog producing more problem dogs.

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

Well..I just have a wee bit of knowledge. My sister is a certified dog trainer with a Certificate from a military like dog school in Texas. They do all of this stuff and she uses the leash thing even with housebreaking. She did train dogs for the Border Patrol and many other govt agencies.

Jake would pack his bags and run away..I just look at him sternly and he melts..

 

[Alice Kable]

You know, I think there is validity in this type of training, but for me it is going overboard. My dogs are household pets, not police or military dogs!

 

[anatess]

I'm with [MENTION=1612]Alice Kable[/MENTION] on this one.

 

[Rural mystic]

It depends on what you want but as to it working, yes I think it will work

 

[Rural mystic]

I didn't notice the "eliminate hormones" part and I'm not for that unless necessary, does it work? Probably yes in some cases but from what I have read and depending on what you are after then it depends. I'm not going to have Ace neutered unless its absolutely necessary and it may pan out that I may but I am going to let it go until then. I plan on taking Ace to obedient classes as soon as he is off the meds for the respiratory infection and the place where I plan on taking him doesn't usually take dogs until they are 6 months of age anyway and he is not far from that so I may wait a couple of weeks to start. But the place I'm taking Ace has good reviews and have been training military type dogs, police dogs and guard dogs for many years and although Ace is a household pet I still want a dog that will obey the fundamental commands. In my opinion is best for the dog as well as the owner. All things are subject to change but as of now I am going to enroll him

 

[Davidh]

I totally disagree with #10 with bullies. Do not walk them a mile or more or jog with them in warm or hot weather, as you will have a dead bully from heat stroke.

 

[Rural mystic]

I agree with David on number 10 as well especially for EB's considering their known problems with over exertion in hot weather. Ace is an OEB and "may" be able to adjust to that much activity but even for OEB's it is going to depend on their genetics. Some OEB's even do reasonably well with weight pulling and one of the intentions for the breed was that they would be among other things a bit more athletic and able to handle warmer weather without as much difficulties. I didn't acquire Ace to prove my own or his prowess at physical activity but if more exercise is required for him and if he enjoys it and it doesn't negatively affect his health then I want to do what's best for my dog

 

[babybully]

Ok, so can I use some sort of barrier to train Mac to NOT be on me like glue? Sorta like the reverse umbilical cord? LOL No need for leash tethering in this house, he's always by my side.

 

[Twice]

You know, I think there is validity in this type of training, but for me it is going overboard. My dogs are household pets, not police or military dogs!

This was sent to me to help with training Athena (our Great Dane). The suggestion was that it might help Otis too, especially since the 2 of them are joined at the hip. Well... more like hip to elbow but you get my point


The thought process behind it has something to do with their size and the importance of discipline. When Thena stands on 2 legs she is taller than I am, an animal like that needs to know her place in the pecking order. Otis is beginning to pick up her habits no matter how difficult they may be for him. Where Athena can just look down on the kitchen counter to take what she wants, Otis has to stand on his hind legs to get there but he gets there now and he never used to before. He's never taken food from the table before, now I need a chicken wire fence to keep him off of it.

I totally disagree with #10 with bullies. Do not walk them a mile or more or jog with them in warm or hot weather, as you will have a dead bully from heat stroke.

In all honesty, I didn't pay attention to the length of the walk. I read it as if the walk itself that is the training tool isn't it? With all the metal in my back, I couldn't walk a mile if there was a pot of gold at the end of it. Once around the block has me reaching for my dilaudid

 

[Davidh]

[MENTION=4225]Twice[/MENTION] the main reason I put that in there was for new bully owners who may not know any better and think they have to walk or run their bullies that long.

 

[Ftse 100]

I'm with @Alice Kable on this one.

I also am with @Alice Kable and @ anatess on this one.

 

[anatess]

I didn't notice the "eliminate hormones" part and I'm not for that unless necessary, does it work? Probably yes in some cases but from what I have read and depending on what you are after then it depends. I'm not going to have Ace neutered unless its absolutely necessary and it may pan out that I may but I am going to let it go until then. I plan on taking Ace to obedient classes as soon as he is off the meds for the respiratory infection and the place where I plan on taking him doesn't usually take dogs until they are 6 months of age anyway and he is not far from that so I may wait a couple of weeks to start. But the place I'm taking Ace has good reviews and have been training military type dogs, police dogs and guard dogs for many years and although Ace is a household pet I still want a dog that will obey the fundamental commands. In my opinion is best for the dog as well as the owner. All things are subject to change but as of now I am going to enroll him

None of my male dogs ever since I got married (the ones we have and the ones that have since passed) are neutered. None of them have behavior issues that are not corrected by training. Not a single one. Not even the aggressive dogs. And that's even with all of them never setting foot in a school/class and neither me nor my husband ever having gone to "Train the trainer" classes. Will a dog be more manageable after alteration? Some are, some aren't. Either way, it all comes down to training.

 

[anatess]

This was sent to me to help with training Athena (our Great Dane). The suggestion was that it might help Otis too, especially since the 2 of them are joined at the hip. Well... more like hip to elbow but you get my point


The thought process behind it has something to do with their size and the importance of discipline. When Thena stands on 2 legs she is taller than I am, an animal like that needs to know her place in the pecking order. Otis is beginning to pick up her habits no matter how difficult they may be for him. Where Athena can just look down on the kitchen counter to take what she wants, Otis has to stand on his hind legs to get there but he gets there now and he never used to before. He's never taken food from the table before, now I need a chicken wire fence to keep him off of it.



In all honesty, I didn't pay attention to the length of the walk. I read it as if the walk itself that is the training tool isn't it? With all the metal in my back, I couldn't walk a mile if there was a pot of gold at the end of it. Once around the block has me reaching for my dilaudid

In my opinion, training a 150lb Great Dane is the same as training a 15lb Bichon Frise. Regardless of their size, they still need to know their place in the pack. The length of time and the number of repetitions to achieve the desired result may vary depending on the temperament of the dog. Interestingly, it is easier to train a Great Dane than a Bichon. Of course, some failures in training a Great Dane has a lot bigger impact than the same failure in training a Bichon. A lot of times, Bichon parents let their Bichons get away with misbehavior because... they're small and cute. I don't necessarily agree with this, although yes, my Bichon does things that my English Bulldogs are not allowed to do and that is really all my fault. For example, I'm not as diligent with the Bichon when he jumps on people because... he only gets around the knees whereas a jumping English Bulldog would knock you over. But yes, this is something my husband doesn't like and he could correct it if it happens when he's around. He trains all our dogs - whatever breed it may be - the exact same way, some with more emphasis on natural tendencies. E.g., our English Bulldogs have a strong food/toy resource guarding tendency whereas our Bichon doesn't so he spends more time correcting that. Also, the English Bulldogs are more independent than the Dobermans so he spends more time trying out different motivators with the Bulldogs. In the end, they all learn the same things.

About that walk... the objective is not the walk. The objective is to expend a dog's excess energy whether it be a walk, a game of fetch, hunting sport, tracking, herding, agility training, etc. etc. This is the same for cats too. A bored dog/cat can be destructive as they try to find things to do on their own. Some dogs - like most adult English Bulldogs - gets wiped out with 10 minutes of fetch play. Some dogs - like a German Shorthaired Pointer - run (not walk) for 20 miles before getting wiped out. So, part of dog ownership is to be able to give the dog an activity to drain that energy balanced with it's bone/muscle/lung capacity. Angus, my English Bulldog, is so motivated that if I don't quit throwing the ball, he will not stop playing fetch until he passes out from exhaustion. Young Great Danes have to balance their exercise with their bone development, so instead of giving a young Great Dane one long walk, they do better with multiple short walks. That kind of thing.

 

[anatess]

Okay, I don't know what kind of problems you are having with the Dane. But just as a general behavioral issue, not a "my dog just took a bite of my neck thing" or a "my dog has to be elitely trained as he is going to be a K-9 cop or Service Dog thing", here is my opinion on the training thing above.

1.) If the objective is bonding, the umbilical cord may not be necessary. Umbilical cord can be beneficial for potty training. For bonding, the dog just naturally follows the person around if the person establishes her place in the pack. The umbilical cord doesn't necessarily work to establish your place in the pack. "I control the food" is a better tool.

2.) Not necessary unless you're correcting aggression and then it's only needed when the aggression occurs.

3.) Good one. I wouldn't bother withholding touch. Touch is good.

4.) Good one. The objective is to establish the fact that you are the food source. You are the provider. The method made it too complicated though. Basically, all you need to do is teach the dog to wait until you give him permission to start eating. And when he quits eating, the food is removed and he gets to wait until you give him permission again (next meal). You can feed him in the middle of the kitchen, it doesn't matter. If you have multiple dogs, you can start training individually by separating the dogs at meal times and then working towards putting them together to eat only what's in their bowls only when their name is called. Treats are not free. Treats are for rewarding work.

5.) Good one.

6.) This goes with #3. Good one.

7.) No difference with #6 really.

8.) Never did this. Soothing to a dog is Safety with his Pack. Don't know what special song does.

9.) Good one but extreme. The objective is "You're the Boss". He can sleep in your bed, sit on the couch, doesn't matter, as long as he knows you can kick him out anytime you want to. If he growls at you when you kick him out of the couch, you need to tighten the training. If he rushes out of the door ahead of you and you didn't give him permission, you need to tighten the training. If he walks ahead of you so that he's pulling on the leash, you need to tighten the training. But if he's just walking ahead of you because the road is narrow and you want to be able to see him at all times, that's fine, as long as he's not dragging you.

10.) I talked about this on my post above.

11.) Not necessary. But, yes, you don't pet the dog if he's whining/barking/begging for one.

12.) Good one. I do play tug-of-war with the dog when I want to play tug-of-war. But, this is only after he has learned to let go of the toy when I tell him to... so, basically, we can be in the middle of a tug-of-war and if I say drop it, the dog has to drop the toy.

13.) I addressed this several posts above too.

Okay, hope this helps. Remember - neither me nor my husband are professional trainers. And none of our dogs have been to any kind of professional class/training. But I have several videos on EBN showing how our dogs respond to our kind of training.