Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 21

Thread: Fighting is getting worse

  1. #1
    Pet Sitter Momma2Bullies's Avatar
    Real Name
    Bree
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    358
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Layla and Wilbur
    Likes (Received)
    31

    Unhappy Fighting is getting worse

    Hi everyone,
    I am starting to have some real issues with Wilbur and Layla fighting. I have searched through the other posts about looking for triggers, preventing the fight, being a strong leader.....I am at a loss. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, there isn't a single aggressor, it can happen in a room with no toys or food (e.g. They are in living room and I step into the kitchen), I just don't know what to do. Wilbur has cuts/scrapes on his muzzle, Layla has a bad scratch way too close to her eye and scabs on her neck...it is awful.

    I see the posturing and immediately disagree, I have pinned them both, but sometimes I seem to make it worse?

    I have no idea why this is happening. A second afterwards they are cuddling and playing together.
    They will be 2 at the end of May, is this a normal phase of figuring themselves out (I hope so).

    I can't leave the house without crating them...used to be because they like to get into trouble and chew the rugs etc., but nowadays it is because I am more worried about fights and seriously hurting each other.

    Any suggestions? Right now I am back to "0 Days Without A Fight" on the whiteboard.
    My whole world

  2. #2
    Rescue Volunteer Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    kim n the guys's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kim
    Country
    United States
    Location
    Holt, MI
    Posts
    1,592
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Oliver, Sebastian, Remy, Gracie, and Tonka (10-21-07 to 05-29-14 RIP)
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    no words of advice to give. My boys, Sebastian and Oliver, started fighting really bad too and they are also 2. It also would start because of territory (namely trying to claim me or my lap) and I could usually stop it if I saw the beginning signs. I just got them both neutered hoping that will fix this. Are Wilbur and Layla fixed? If so, then all I can say is an age thing I've heard bullies go through at around the age of 2. Hopefully someone will come along with suggestions.
    Kim, Lord Sebastian, Sir Oliver, Remy Le Beau, and Gracie Lou <3

  3. #3
    Queenie I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    JeannieCO's Avatar
    Country
    USA
    Location
    Conifer, Colorado
    Posts
    13,413
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Emma, Max, Wilson & Jack (Sally RIP 3/14/16)
    Likes (Received)
    620

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    oh do I have advice. I'm dealing with this exact issue right now. I don't have much time at the moment but I will respond back to this with the issues I'm going through and have been going through for a while now. My guys are just over two. There are triggers that are setting them off - you just need to pin point them. I know what Wilson's triggers are, but I cannot always get there to stop it. I'll be back later today. In the meantime be sure to crate at least one of them at all times when you are gone. If they were to get halophyte while you're gone you can have deadly consequences. Hang in there!!!!

    Three Hooligans and 1 Angel - Wilson, Sally, Emma & Jack

  4. #4
    Rescue Volunteer Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    kim n the guys's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kim
    Country
    United States
    Location
    Holt, MI
    Posts
    1,592
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Oliver, Sebastian, Remy, Gracie, and Tonka (10-21-07 to 05-29-14 RIP)
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by JeannieCO View Post
    oh do I have advice. I'm dealing with this exact issue right now. I don't have much time at the moment but I will respond back to this with the issues I'm going through and have been going through for a while now. My guys are just over two. There are triggers that are setting them off - you just need to pin point them. I know what Wilson's triggers are, but I cannot always get there to stop it. I'll be back later today. In the meantime be sure to crate at least one of them at all times when you are gone. If they were to get halophyte while you're gone you can have deadly consequences. Hang in there!!!!

    I'll be anxiously waiting until you can reply again too, @JeannieCO. See, what is it about the age of 2 that sets these guys off? I know puberty and all that, but gosh a mighty, they are killing me!

    Last edited by bullmama; 03-30-2013 at 01:02 PM.
    Kim, Lord Sebastian, Sir Oliver, Remy Le Beau, and Gracie Lou <3

  5. #5
    Dog Show Judge Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    Petra's Avatar
    Real Name
    Petra van der Walt
    Country
    Sweden
    Location
    Naboomspruit, South Africa.
    Posts
    2,880
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Boeboe, Bennie Boy and Joey
    Likes (Received)
    1384

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    I've been wondering if there was anyone else having the same problem as us and I see there is... sadly. We have three bulldogs, one male and two females. The one female (our rescue one) don't go together with the others AT ALL so we have the house split up, we've even had a dog trainer working with them but it hasn't gotten better as they are both incredible stubborn Re-homing one of them isn't even on the map since I love them more than life<3

    The male and female who does go together also fight sometimes, it's the female that starts the fight almost always, she is very bitchy when she's sleeping and the male can't even move without her growling at him The hardest thing is that if we correct her she just gets more angry. Luckily our male is very tolerant of her mood swings and he walks away most of the times but once in a while he cant get away and has to defend himself. I've noticed since correcting the female doesn't work... that pretend nothing is happening when they start to get "stiff" and just call them both in a happy calm voice works. They only get into fights about 2-4 times a year and when they do trowing some water on them works to stop the fight.

    I know how you feel, it is horrible I don't know what to do either, so I'm looking forward to see if there is someone who has an answer how to work with them.
    You were born with the ability to change someone's life, don't ever waste it.



  6. #6
    Pet Sitter Momma2Bullies's Avatar
    Real Name
    Bree
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    358
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Layla and Wilbur
    Likes (Received)
    31

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    Oh @JeannieCO I am excited to see what you can tell us!
    I am glad I am not alone in this.....
    @kim n the guys , yes they were both fixed when they were 7 months old , I wanted it done ASAP having a male and a female. I was hoping to prevent any behavioural issues stemming from hormones, etc.
    @Petra I totally know what you mean! They can be sleeping and if Layla moves, Wilbur decides that isn't ok and growls....we call him Mr. Cranky Crankpot.
    but then Layla will start it other times.
    i also know what you mean when they get "stiff"....it's like a staring contest!

    I will check back later!
    Last edited by Momma2Bullies; 03-15-2013 at 01:10 PM.
    My whole world

  7. #7
    I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog? I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    2BullyMama's Avatar
    Real Name
    Christine
    Country
    USA
    Location
    Gilbertsville, PA
    Posts
    40,140
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Lambeau, Chelios (Frenchie), Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014)
    Trophies
    Likes (Received)
    11481

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    Jeannie is going to have some great info for you..... I just wanted to chime in and say hang in there, you will be able to pick up on the tiggers, just takes some time to identify them and then know how to address.

    We have the same issue with Banks, she just gets her hairs twisted and will go after Cheli for no damn good reason.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    There is a part of your heart not alive until a bulldog has entered your lif
    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




  8. #8
    Queenie I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    JeannieCO's Avatar
    Country
    USA
    Location
    Conifer, Colorado
    Posts
    13,413
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Emma, Max, Wilson & Jack (Sally RIP 3/14/16)
    Likes (Received)
    620

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    This is going to be long but it’s my experience and suggestions. I'm still having excitement aggression issues and I wanted to share all of this with everyone - I feel it’s necessary to also understand my situation that I’ve been dealing with right now with Wilson (Bulldog) and Jack (Pit Bull) since this past July. Both are over just over 2 now. I’m no stranger to dogs, have had them all most life but up until Jack and Wilson I have never encountered the type of fighting that’s set off by a trigger. Wilson is also my first Bulldog. Our Pit Bulls, Ace & Orion (may they RIP), had their share of fights over the years but they always stopped when we intervened or even when we didn’t cause we weren’t home. Their fights were generally over alpha or someone possibly at the door (excitement) and they were in each other's face when barking.

    Wilson’s and Jack’s fight are completely different. Wilson has what I call “excitement” triggers and Wilson has quite a few triggers that will set him off. I can read Wilson very well and I know all of Wilson’s triggers. But I just can’t head them off all the time before a fight breaks out. I’m no expert but hopefully my experience helps and we might even get a few more suggestions on trigger issues, etc.

    They have had about a dozen fights since last July, give or take. We’re practicing the “no touch, no talk, no eye contact” right now whenever anyone comes over and I must have control 100% control of Emma, Wilson and Jack before they can enter the house. That means they have to sit and stay 5’ back from the door and stay there until I say they can go. It’s work in progress right now but it’s helping.

    There’s a reason dogs fight IMO - whether it’s aggression or trigger related. Wilson does not have aggression towards other dogs per se, nor does Jack. They love just about everyone they see, dogs and people. Wilson triggers are:

    • Excitement (someone coming over and into the house)
    • Fast movement
    • Food (even a kibble on the floor or even snack time if another is near right near him)
    • Toads, rabbits, etc.
    • Objects he doesn't recognize (a wind chime, plastic bag in the wind, hubby swapping tires on his truck and the tire laying off to the side, etc.)
    • Fly/bee/wasp (anything that moves outside)
    • Toys
    • Loud noises
    • If he's bothered by another dog when he's in his own zone (like sleeping and then Jack starts playing and moving around and touches him).


    If Jack is anywhere near Wilson when these triggers happen a fight will break out 100% of the time if I can’t intervene. Wilson’s 100% responsible for starting the fights with Jack.

    When they’re playing its totally different, they play wonderfully and love on each other. But, I never let their play escalate to a point of high excitement as a fight could easily happen. I made it a point to “settle” their rough play since they were puppies.

    I remember the first time I saw Wilson’s first trigger, he became a totally different dog. We were at the lake last Memorial Day last summer and he spotted a toad at night in the campsite. He did a 100% change in his stance, his focus and even the next day was OCD about finding it. He still goes to the same tree looking for it. He was obsessed with it.

    The fights are becoming more intense now as they’re getting older and stronger. Here’s what I suggest and what I’m doing:

    • Walk, walk and walk! Walks really help Wilson and we have been lacking in our walks due to the cold weather and then getting busy in our basement, etc. No excuse at all though.
    • Learning what’s setting Layla off.
    • When they are posturing, exactly what is happening, what are they doing, what were they doing?
    • Practice “no touch, no talk, no eye contact” if it’s excitement when anyone enters the house. It really keeps them calm for the initial scenario.
    • Movements, are you trigging the triggers by your fast movements (I'm guilty of this and now try to focus moving a bit slower) Dogs feed off your engery?
    • Stern voice and a solid “NO” command.
    • Are the fights happening in closed in areas (narrower areas of the house) or out in the open?
    • Submission (must be careful with this though and not everyone will agree). If you over submit the wrong dog it can have bad consequences. I can submit Wilson to his side if needed and he’s calm, same with Emma (never need to but…). And Jack same thing. Ace I could also submit. Orion on the other hand was a fear biter and I NEVER submitted him. A fear biter will do just that, bite if he’s in a situation he’s uncomfortable with. I had him turn on me once and I learned my lesson with him fast. Never ever corner a dog, never!
    • Put a harness on Layla at all times (I have to do that with Wilson right now too). It gives you something to grab onto if they fight.
    • Crate Layla or Wilbur when you’re gone. You don’t have to crate both, you can rotate them. I rotate Wilson and Jack in their crates when we’re gone. One always stays out. It's all good and gives them a place to chill, careful on uncrating them though if excitement is the trigger.


    I’d like to say we’re not hypersensitive now but we are. We both have caught ourselves yelling at them when they were only playing or a sound was made. We’re working on this with ourselves now.

    This is going to talk a lot of work. You're issues seem to be the same as mine.

    Sandy @cowsmom suggested putting Wilson on a Lead (lease) when I’m home. I'm going to do more reading on the leads and give it some serious thought. A Harness is again on Wilson when we’re home. I'm starting to do some research on "excitement" triggers and have checked out Cesar Milan’s website. In reading his “How to Stop Dogs When They’re Fighting” I read that that I’m doing a couple of things wrong: Yelling at them when their fighting is not good and not taking a step back to assess which one is the aggressor before jumping in to stop them. I will then pull Wilson by the back legs. Cesar suggests to "then you need to step in to give that dog the right touch - this means the ribcage." This will cause the dog to release his bite for that split second and give you the moment you’ll need to pull him away from the other.


    Here’s just a few memorable moments of their fights, the first one as recent as this past Wednesday and by far the worst one they’ve had so far.


    3/20/12
    Jack and Wilson just got into a fight and Emma joined (she backed off when I got involved though). I had just gotten home for the second time that evening and was moving one runner rug to replace it with another. They were behind me and still excited from me just getting home for and had lots of energy that I neglected to address first. All of a sudden a fight was on. Jack had Wilson by the ear and was thrusting him around. With all my screaming, throwing the rug at them, they would NOT stop. I managed once to pull Wilson off by pulling him from his back legs; only for me to lose my grip (Jack still had ahold of his ear though). He went after Jack again and the fight was right back on. I felt like I was playing tug-a-war with Wilson with Jack. Wilson has 2 good sized puncture wounds on one ear. Jack really had a hold of him and wasn't letting go. That worries me quite a bit - not that Jack worries me by no means, just the situation.

    10/26/12
    One night Wilson was under the recliner chair chillin'. Jack and Emma were playing together and a nylabone Emma had dropped near Wilson between me and Mike. Emma jumped down to get it so all 3 were right there in a confined area between the couch and coffee table. I had just told Mike we need to move them and I got up and was just reaching to get Wilson caused I knew what was about to happen when the fight broke out.

    ????
    Another night our neighbor came over and all three got really excited. I told to Mike they needed to be calmed down (I was in the other room working on auction items). About 10 minutes later Wilson took the bone into the kitchen and Jack was his excitable happy self. A fight broke out and Emma got involved too. I yanked Wilson out from under Mike's legs and he was able to toss Emma to the side and stop Jack. Mike got bit on the index finder. We got them all calmed down so we thought, 15 minutes went by, and Jack was not doing anything and Wilson went into a stare down and attacked him again.


    10/14/12
    I was down visiting with Henny @cali baker. Mike had to work that Saturday and our wonderful neighbors poked in to let them out for potty breaks. They know our neighbors very well. That Saturday our neighbor had taken all three of them over to their house for a visit. All three have never been over at the same time but had been going over there since they were puppies. And with me gone the dynamics are a bit different – I’m the alpha. They don’t know Wilson’s triggers and cannot read them either. Wilson caught sight of an object that was hanging on their back porch twirling and that set him off, he apparently was zoned in on it and Larry had seen that. Jack went by apparently to see what was up and Wilson attacked Jack and fought back for the first time. My neighbor’s thumb is still healing 6 months later.

    7/18/12
    Jack and Wilson got into their first fight right after there were all done eating. I was sitting right there as I also do every night. I believe Emma got to close to Wilson as he was finishing his food and that was enough for him. I've been working on her and she's doing great but she passed him and Jack was right there. Wilson literally had Jack by the throat and I did what my instinct told me to do, pull them off each other. Before I knew it I felt Wilson's teeth rip into my arm. That was not his fault and he was not going after me by no means, I put my hand in the middle to pull them apart and got the brunt end of it. Wilson now eats in a separate room and with working on them all they all now wait to go to the other’s bowl until it’s relinquished.

    Other than certain scenarios they get along and play wonderfully as you’ve may have seen from their play videos.

    I feel sorry for Jack at times because since he was a puppy all he wants to do is play and he's been bite from day 1 by other dogs he's met.......

    @Vicaroo1000 might also have some suggestions
    Last edited by JeannieCO; 03-15-2013 at 05:08 PM. Reason: typos
    Three Hooligans and 1 Angel - Wilson, Sally, Emma & Jack

  9. #9
    Queenie I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    JeannieCO's Avatar
    Country
    USA
    Location
    Conifer, Colorado
    Posts
    13,413
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Emma, Max, Wilson & Jack (Sally RIP 3/14/16)
    Likes (Received)
    620

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    I hope I can help a bit. I'm still working it out with my Hooligans.
    Three Hooligans and 1 Angel - Wilson, Sally, Emma & Jack

  10. #10
    Queenie I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    JeannieCO's Avatar
    Country
    USA
    Location
    Conifer, Colorado
    Posts
    13,413
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Emma, Max, Wilson & Jack (Sally RIP 3/14/16)
    Likes (Received)
    620

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Momma2Bullies View Post
    @Petra I totally know what you mean! They can be sleeping and if Layla moves, Wilbur decides that isn't ok and growls....we call him Mr. Cranky Crankpot.
    but then Layla will start it other times.
    i also know what you mean when they get "stiff"....it's like a staring contest!
    If that happens again when Wilbur is sleeping scold him immediately. Zero tolerance there. Also a starring contest challenges the other to two things: Lets play and Lets Fight. Scold them both if it's the Lets Fight star. Redirect that negative engery fast.
    Three Hooligans and 1 Angel - Wilson, Sally, Emma & Jack

  11. #11
    Queenie I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    JeannieCO's Avatar
    Country
    USA
    Location
    Conifer, Colorado
    Posts
    13,413
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Emma, Max, Wilson & Jack (Sally RIP 3/14/16)
    Likes (Received)
    620

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    Another thing I wanted to mention which to me is different the excitement I listed above but is happy excitable dogs. Jack is a happy to see you type of dog and he shows that with his fast movements and body wiggles. If this alone happens when they’re in the kitchen, hallway or other more closed in area, a fight will happen. @cali baker, Tate has happy excitement that Finn doesn’t like all the time right?
    Three Hooligans and 1 Angel - Wilson, Sally, Emma & Jack

  12. #12
    Worlds Greatest Chef I am an EBN Reporter
    Become a 4 Paw Member
    I Have Earned Community Veteran Status!
    Need help with the forums?  Contact me!
    cali baker's Avatar
    Real Name
    Henny
    Country
    United States
    Location
    The Crown City (Pasadena)
    Posts
    9,013
    Bulldog(s) Names
    Tate Rory & Finn Paddington
    Likes (Received)
    1479
    Blog Entries
    32

    Default Re: Fighting is getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by JeannieCO View Post
    Another thing I wanted to mention which to me is different the excitement I listed above but is happy excitable dogs. Jack is a happy to see you type of dog and he shows that with his fast movements and body wiggles. If this alone happens when they’re in the kitchen, hallway or other more closed in area, a fight will happen. @cali baker, Tate has happy excitement that Finn doesn’t like all the time right?
    there was a time when Tate , with his very bubbly and robust personality, would overwhelm Finn. Finn would get annoyed by Tate's over excitement and would try to control him and make him stop by fighting with him. These days, fortunately, I'm setting more limits w/Tate and his over excitement (doing this by making him sit, ignoring him, the no touch/no talk/no see is very helpful here as well), and this in turn has helped w/Finn's reactions and now Finn doesn't feel he needs to "take control" over his bro's actions b/c now mom is doing it.




Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •