Help Needed! Fighting is getting worse

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Momma2Bullies

Momma2Bullies

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Aug 2, 2012
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Canada
Bulldog(s) Names
Layla and Wilbur
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Sebastian and Oliver don't fight due to overexcitement. Their triggers are more territorial. Most of the time, I believe, it's because they are trying to claim me but sometimes it can be just because one of the dogs is a spot in the house the other dog wants to be. It can also be a doorway or the top of the stairs.

Example #2: Oliver is laying on the couch next to me, one of the other dogs even comes close to the couch we're on and he starts growling. When that happens I can usually stop it right away by touching the side of his neck and saying no. If it excalates to the point of actual fighting, then they get off the couch and on the floor


Same exact issue here... I haven't had success in preventing it in this situation. If I so much as move it is "on like Donkey Kong". :nope:
 

JeannieCO

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Mar 11, 2011
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Tip of the Mitt, Michigan
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Bulldog(s) Names
Emma, Charlie, Milo, Peekaboo and Jack
[MENTION=5605]Momma2Bullies[/MENTION], I'm going to give you a few more suggestions on the things you listed and I'm pretty sure they will help quite a bit. I'll do that a bit later though if you don't mind, time to go drink a bit and head to the basement to help (well watch) the hubby work. I have a perfect solution too for the pulling on the walking. :up:

And the toad, that's funny that Wilbur has done that too. I swear he was so different, like a Mack Truck bulldog. He was obsessed and still is to this day over looking for that damn toad. I'm always redirecting him. We're camping in a new spot this year so I won't have to deal with that...:hmm: unless there's toad on that section of the lake too. :D

I'll get back to you tomorrow. Time to go have pizza and :cheers: lol
 
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Momma2Bullies

Momma2Bullies

New member
Aug 2, 2012
356
26
Canada
Bulldog(s) Names
Layla and Wilbur
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Thanks [MENTION=2014]JeannieCO[/MENTION]! hahahah I hope you had a good night!
today has been good so far *fingers crossed*... I have already employed some of your suggestions since Saturday morning and right now the whiteboard is 2 Days Without A Fight (+several attempts prevented by Mommy!) ;)
 

JeannieCO

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Mar 11, 2011
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Tip of the Mitt, Michigan
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Emma, Charlie, Milo, Peekaboo and Jack
Yep had a great night. Had 2 fights again, one last night and one today. :bang: They're fine. They went for a really good walk today and they really needed that.
 

JeannieCO

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Mar 11, 2011
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Tip of the Mitt, Michigan
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USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Emma, Charlie, Milo, Peekaboo and Jack
So far I haven't had the "excitement" fights (when people come in or I come home). Wilbur is actually a very fearful dog (he is scared of everything - noises, new furniture, etc.) Layla is Miss Social Butterfly and is all over the person while Wilbur hangs back (tail wagging but cautious. They eat together and I don't seem to have any food aggression while they are eating, but I have had to watch it lately when I give them a treat and they are in a sit beside each other, that can be a trigger.

Sitting besides each other or near each other weather it be food or snack is a bit one in my house. When they line up to get a veges/treat, etc. I make sure Wilson and Jack have a few feet between them. Wilson's a slow eater and has dropped pieces of treats and we've had a fight once because Jack was too close. I won't have that one happen again.

I DO have:
- Wilbur "claiming" the couch or one of their dog beds (raising hackles at Layla if she tries to get on the couch too, whether I am also on the couch or not). I have been making Wilbur sit on the floor when he does this but when I come near to remove him, this usually sparks the fight.

Time for Wilbur to go off the furniture completely until he can be on it with Layla near, especially if he's claiming the spot when you're on the couch. My opinion is he's claiming that spot and and you. If you're coming near him to take him off and that sparks a fight, NO furniture!!!

He will also be very cranky if she touches him or moves while he is asleep, this can be a fight. Usually Layla cowers and moves away but I have a sense she is feeling fed-up with this and isn't going to take it anymore!

Where are they both sleeping when this happens, on the bed? If so, one's one the bed and one's off. Wilson does not sleep on the bed. I'll bring him up but he goes back down. [/quote]

- Layla will take the toy/bone Wilbur is chewing or carrying around, and then when he wants to tug or take it back, she is immediately crazy aggressive and it results in a fight, even if Wilbur was doing his play dance and trying to engage her. Right this minute this is happening. I can see Layla is getting overprotective of the toy she just stole from Wilbur, so I have 'redirected' Wilbur by distracting him and asking him to go get his 'baby bone' (a blue toy and he knows the name). Thankfully that worked, he doesn't care about Layla right now.

Next time Layla goes to take a toy way from Wilbur scold her with NO. Do not allow that if the toy is in Wilbur's possession. Emma's bad with this (well used to be) and she'd go to take something away from Wilson and Jack and we've had a few near fights, that's been awhile though. I've worked with her several months now with a "leave it" and "no" and will physically correct her by removing her from either of them so she can 'own' the toy while they have it.

-Wilbur is reactive and scared of a lot of things, if there is a noise on tv (the list of "unauthorized' sound is endless - from babies to hammers...anything and everything sets him off) he thinks the sound is actually from outside and/or the kettle (long story - he associates everything evil with the kettle on the counter and has literally gouged the cabinet trying to get at the kettle. He then freaks and is desperate to get outside. He is uncontrollable in this state, he rams through the backdoor and if it is latched (or blocked by snow) he attacks Layla (she is following to see what all the commotion is about). I know this is classic redirected aggression and I believe harnessing him will help that ?

I personally would be all over Wilbur's a$$ and would not allow him to get that way with anything on the counter, kettle, etc. That's unacceptable. What you can do is bring the item down for him to see (remove Layla from the area first though). I've done this with Wilson on a few items. It's like he can't distinquish what the item is. Once he sees it and knows it's not going to harm him I don't have that problem again. He used to get on high alert if the black bbq cover was off. Maybe try sitting down on the floor with him when he gets like this and wants to ram the door. Key for Wilson was "I always win" and if I'm holding him, doing his nails, whatever, he's not allowed to leave me unless I let him. Sometimes it's only seconds but it's on my command not his.

- I know I am part of the issue. Wilbur has "claimed' me. If Layla is cuddling on my lap on the couch, he will muscle her out and it results in a fight. This is where I have really failed. Wilbur always gravitated to me and Layla really bonded with my BF - I don't know how it happened but I guess it isn't unusual for the male to bond with his female human and vice versa for girl dogs? I don't know....but I created a monster with Wilbur and I really look to when he had his knee surgery at 10 months old. I am the primary caregiver and during his recovery/rehab I had to really curtail Layla's natural exuberance and keep them from playing (so he wouldn't re-injure, etc.). As a result, I had to tell Layla "no!' a lot and babied Wilbur. Sigh. And here we are. I am working on that because I know that was my doing (a year later and I think I am dealing with the consequences).

Bad bad bad if a fight ensues while you're holding or near one of them. If Wilbur starts to muscle his way again when Layla is next to you DO NOT ALLOW him to do that, period. It's all going to take time but you'll see progress with consistency. Ace got really dependent on me too after he had his TPLO surgery. Then he had another TPLO on his other leg. Yes they do get quite reliant on you but you must set a boundary with Wilbur. I'm the caregiver, disciplinary, etc. in my household. I'm top alpha before my hubby.

I am going to check out Cesar's site - I do remember the tip about lifting the back legs if they are fighting so they release, I can't believe I forgot it!
I am also going to really watch the triggers. I know I have a lot of work to do, particularly with Wilbur. I don't like how he is walking with me either - he is pulling a lot, and I know that is an indication of thinking he is the boss.

I think you already know what the triggers are, or some of them from what I read here. Time to act on them. Sure it's not going to be easy having to be extremely firm but it will pay off in the long run. I wish my triggers were different. The excitement triggers are not good. I have lots of work to do with my guys too, I just need to figure out how to deal with the excitement. Last night's fight was about 10pm. I went over to the neighbors (to borrow some ceiling insulation). We were in our garage and I said, hold on let me get control of my guys first before you enter. Well I opened the door, got the boys back, grabbed Wilson and wham, just that bit of excitement with our neighbor behind me and Jack that close was all it took. :bang:

I really laughed at your toad story - I get toads in my yard and last summer was "Toad Summer' here - BOTH dogs were out of their minds over the toads. Completely OCD. I would be waiting and waiting for them to do their business so I could go to work or go to bed, and ALL THEY WOULD DO is hunt for the toads. It was insane! hahahahaha!

There must be something about toads then. Maybe not. Wilson would be the type of dog that would go crazy from looking for a light on the ground if someone was to tease him with one. He'll hunt in the grass for quite a while if he sees even a bug move. He was looking for something the other night for a solid 1/2 hour, sniffing and scratching at the grass like a pig.

Oh on the walking and this has really helped with Wilson. Take that lease and shorten it up in your hand. Wilson only gets enough lead to where he's at my side. He always always want to stop and sniff everything. I quite allowing it for awhile while walking (remember MY TERMS) and if she pulled that that direction, I pulled him back. He used to pull a bit and a slight snap with the leash to trigger the harness to snap worked for him. (no bully was harmed either, haha).

Well hope that helps a bit more. :) But it's time to toughen up on Wilbur and remember do not let Layla take Wilbur's toys. :no:
 
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Vicaroo1000

"Slug Assassin" and PBS Gardening Dweeb
Jun 23, 2011
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Mukilteo, Washington State
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Beefeater's Buxom Beatrice and Lord Harrington's Bodacious Beauregaard
Fantastic thread! Awesome, awesome info here! Practical advise associated with real life situations. :2thumbs:
 

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