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Thread: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

  1. #13
    Rescue Volunteer acarabias's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    @LiLlilly I have to commend you for trying to find a routine for her. I just have some concerns, since Lilly was practically crated her whole life with her previous owner, she might not see being crated for long periods as a correction and she might no relate being crated to her bathroom issues. She really has no idea what you want at all because she has no previous experience. I think for her you will need much more of positive reinforcement than corrections until you gain her trust. Once she starts understanding what you want, then she will also understand corrections. I don't think the pinch collar will for her at this stage either, since she is just going to be more afraid of going outside. I do think you need to take baby steps with her. LITERALLY. take her out, be patient, when she takes ONE step praise her, make a big deal out of it. She is afraid, everything is new, she will get there, you are doing awesome!! I think the idea of taking her to your friends house is a good one, if she is successful at pooping outside then you can make a big deal out of it, and hopefully lightbulbs will start turning in her head soon! keep us posted!

    Eagerly and Nervously awaiting the homecoming of Bruno Cannoli

  2. #14
    Drool Catcher Poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acarabias View Post
    @LiLlilly I have to commend you for trying to find a routine for her. I just have some concerns, since Lilly was practically crated her whole life with her previous owner, she might not see being crated for long periods as a correction and she might no relate being crated to her bathroom issues. She really has no idea what you want at all because she has no previous experience. I think for her you will need much more of positive reinforcement than corrections until you gain her trust. Once she starts understanding what you want, then she will also understand corrections. I don't think the pinch collar will for her at this stage either, since she is just going to be more afraid of going outside. I do think you need to take baby steps with her. LITERALLY. take her out, be patient, when she takes ONE step praise her, make a big deal out of it. She is afraid, everything is new, she will get there, you are doing awesome!! I think the idea of taking her to your friends house is a good one, if she is successful at pooping outside then you can make a big deal out of it, and hopefully lightbulbs will start turning in her head soon! keep us posted!
    I second this. She does not have the ability to put two and two together at this point. It sounds like her previous owners were complete a-holes.

    In this situation I would treat her like a puppy until she develops more confidence. Give her some time and positive reinforcement. Leash her to your body around the house so she gets used to following you, and learns that you're the boss. This may take awhile but will bond you. When you're trying to get her to potty, squeeze her belly gently to encourage peeing/bowel movements. When Poppy was a pup we would have to stand and coax her at least 20 mins each potty break. Pretty annoying in Canadian winters, but at 5 months she finally understood "go pee" and goes on command.

    The pinch collar may add to her already negative association with the outdoors. Have you tried a martingale collar? It tightens and the links make a clicking sound that is usually enough to get their attention. Have you tried walking her w/ another dog? This may bring some curiosity outta her and encourage her to move forward. Just some ideas to consider before a pinch collar and strict crate time. If in a month you still have no progress, then yes I would look into more regimented training. But for now a soft touch might be enough.

    Good luck!

  3. #15
    Drool Catcher Poppy's Avatar
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    Whoops forgot to add that the one area not to be soft is the possessiveness. She needs to know it's not tolerated at all. Look up the "nothing in life is free" training method. She has to work for every toy and know that you can take them away at any time. Put a leash on her and practice dropping toys and making her wait for them. Sit beside her (side to side) while she chews and if she even gives you a dominating look, give a quick poke to the side (like Caesar Milan) and firmly say *NO*. Remember to always remain calm and not anticipate aggression but be ready to correct if it does happen. A leash pop to the side also snaps them out of it.

    I would hand feed her right now. It will assert you as the boss while bonding you.

  4. #16
    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    I decided to do something a little different.

    You guys are totally right in the fact I'm trying to do too much at once. I think she's just overwhelmed with change, and it's making it even harder for her to zone in on what's what. I decided to let the bathroom issue go for a bit until she overcomes the outdoors. When I put her in the bathroom by herself with pads, she goes instantly. So I figure if I encourage her to go to the bathroom, she'll lose the fear of going. She thinks what she's doing is wrong, and when she goes she hides under my futon, or darts for her cage. So first I want to be positive on going to the bathroom period. If you think about it, why even take her out to go to the bathroom when she can't relax out there. From what I've gathered the dog needs to be confident, and be able to act like a dog. With her completely detached from her natural senses she's never going to understand what I want from her. She's smart and knows that there is a time, and place to go. She just shuts herself off to the outdoors so she can't put it all together in her head. With lots of positive reinforcement on it being ok to pee/poop she'll gain some much needed confidence herself I think.

    I'm also going to bring her to the park where its nice and quiet, and get her to start walking on the leash with me. My buddy brought over his pinch collar, and we gave it a go with Lilly. She responded way better, and doesn't show any kind of pain issues. I pop it, and she stands right up. I'm going to be very, very careful with it and go very slow with her. To me, these collars are a great tool when used properly. The "pinch" seems to really strike a nerve in her brain, and she knows I'm the boss not her. When she has a normal collar on, she turns into the bull we all know and love. She's gets tough, and uses her strength to HER advantage, and even though I'm pulling up on it she still pulls and thinks she's winning. Sorry if you guys don't approve of these collars, but she isn't taking it negatively at all so far. In fact, I feel better about use this because I'm not "choking" her. I did some research on conventional collars and I didn't like what I found. Autopsies were performed on dogs that were trained with pinch collars, and dogs that used normal ones. The dogs with pinch collars had 2 dogs out of 50 with neck injuries, 1 was genetic, the other trauma related. The other dogs with normal collars showed more then 50% of them had trauma related neck injuries, and 3 with genetic injuries!! Not cool!! They may seem barbaric but being that the collar is straight and to the point, there is no repeated yanking on the leash. Your also not pulling anywhere near as hard, and is typically a small pop. I'm sure some dogs are more intense, and it CAN injure the dog, but she's allowing me to do all the teaching. So, being that I got positive results with no harm done I'm going to continue with the collar until I see negative results.

    As for the crate, I think I'm going to use it for when and I can't keep an eye one her, and for sleeping purposes. She impressed me in the fact that she WILL go WHERE I want, so I trust her enough to be out. As long as I time it right, she shouldn't have any accidents. Thanks again for all the positive feedback, and all the help/advice! I'll keep you all updated with her progress!!

  5. #17
    Drool Catcher Poppy's Avatar
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    Don't worry about the collar. Do what works for you and Lilly

    We look forward to your updates

  6. #18
    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    Sweet, I thought I was gonna get a bunch of thumbs down because of it :]

    Today was great!! We walked around my buddies yard, and then walked down a laid back road with a little traffic. Slowly but surely she is coming out of her shell, and the collar really does help keep her moving, and standing tall. She did better with passing cars too which was nice to see. I love this dog, and it is really a great feeling seeing her progress. I'm gonna be so bored when shes trained :[

  7. #19
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    Quote Originally Posted by LiLlilly View Post
    Sweet, I thought I was gonna get a bunch of thumbs down because of it :]

    Today was great!! We walked around my buddies yard, and then walked down a laid back road with a little traffic. Slowly but surely she is coming out of her shell, and the collar really does help keep her moving, and standing tall. She did better with passing cars too which was nice to see. I love this dog, and it is really a great feeling seeing her progress. I'm gonna be so bored when shes trained :[
    Great to hear she is coming along...... and you will not be bored, as with a lot of female bullies; they are a work in progress
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  8. #20
    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Great to hear she is coming along...... and you will not be bored, as with a lot of female bullies; they are a work in progress
    Huh...So females are typically more work then males? I've never heard that before. She's definitely a little prissy, girly girl dog haha

  9. #21
    I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog? I am an EBN Reporter
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    Quote Originally Posted by LiLlilly View Post
    Huh...So females are typically more work then males? I've never heard that before. She's definitely a little prissy, girly girl dog haha
    Oh H E L L yeah ---Banks is 6 and we still are training her. She was BRUTAL as a pup... but I love her to pieces
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  10. #22
    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    Wow, that's pretty funny!

    Compared to my male Chester she's such a little princess. He'll play tug of war for days if you let him and he's turning 11 in a month!! He'll actually hunt you down with toy in mouth ready to go. Full of life for a senior bully. Lilly is too good for pulling stuff, and tearing it apart. She's happier being a mush and making your heart melt. As I'm typing this she's under my coffee table chewing on my big toe trying to be cute...lol! I mean come ON!! These dogs have some kind of mutant cuteness that is just impossible to resist haha. Btw, your signature quote is spot on...very cool

  11. #23
    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

    Lilly just started potty training boot camp, and I ain't messing around this time.

    Sorry for not posting in a bit and leaving you all hanging but she chewed up my power supply wire, and I needed to wait to buy a new one. Anyways, I'm not gonna lie this dog is wearing me down, and actually had me beat for a little while. I stopped letting her out, because she just wouldn't go and I got a little depressed that I might have bit off more then I can chew. But! I realized what was happening and I snapped out of it. But this time, things are going to be much more strict...Much more.

    First things first a nice walk is how her day will begin EVERY day. If she doesn't go to the bathroom, she'll be fed when we get back and locked up in her crate for an hour before I take her out again. Then every hour or two I take her out again. If she doesn't go, locked up. If she does, then we socialize. So far today, she's been locked up ALL day. I feel horrible...But, I'm staying strong and so is she. She still hasn't gone outside. She pee'd in her cage once, but no poop at all today. So now this is where I get worried...I don't want to cause any kidney damage because she's not going. It's been about 24 hours since shes gone, SOO stubborn. What do you guy suggest? I'm trying to be consistent and obvious. My logic is she'll have to go to the bathroom eventually, and I limit her to her cage she won't be able to go inside. Am I wrong here?

    Also, I know creating a negative vibe for her crate is bad, but I NEED to dicipline this dog with boundaries. Because to her, there are none. This to me is more important then the negative vibe, and once she works it all out in her mind she won't be locked up. And after a while will like the crate again.
    Last edited by LiLlilly; 03-13-2012 at 07:46 PM.

  12. #24
    I'm not OCD....now who moved my bulldog? I am an EBN Reporter
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    Default Re: New Member! Having BIG problems...Help! :[

    @LiLlilly I'm not sure about keeping her in her crate so much --- she is not getting any exercise that way. Are you home with them all day? If yes, how old is she? rule of thumb is 1 hr more than they are old is how long they can hold the bladder (4 months old -- 5 hours) ... what we did with Banks and we do with Cheli now -- out every hour to 90 mins. and we do not come in till they go. we are having issue with Cheli that started with the nice weather -- he will not go during walks ... will only go in a certain spot in our back yard I took him for a 30 min walk - he did nothing. Come in the house and with 15 mins he pee'd and on the rug

    my point is --- find what works for her --- have treats with you and give lots of praise as soon as she does her job
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    There is a part of your heart not alive until a bulldog has entered your lif
    e.

    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




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