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Thread: Need help from our training experts please!

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    Question Need help from our training experts please!

    I need help with Miila. She is a total love bug and I really am so in love with her it is sickening. BUT she is possesive agressive, if that is even the right way to put it, not sure. With feedings she was going after Mugsy so I now feed Mugsy and Cutty at the same time whille Miila watches, then she eats. This has made a huge diff in feedings and usually there is peace but she can get crazy over random things. For example... I go grocery shopping and unload the truck full into the garage on the floor so I can get the girls in the garage safely. Then once I close the garage we come in and I make them lunch before I grab the bags and start putting away. Well the pups always go investigate which has never been a big deal. Miila previously fed those satin balls before we got her so the smell of raw meat makes her crazy, like she thinks it is hers. Anyhow I had a pork roast in one of the bags and she was sniffing it, I told her to leave it and went to pull her away from the bag and she bit me. not hard enough to break the skin or anything so I am not afraid of her at all but the fact that she did and knew she did cuz that roast was hers is not going to fly with me. I put her on her back and she always submits instantly so that part of it isnt an issue. I let her up and Cutty happened to be within 4 feet so she snapped at him, busted. I threw her on her back again and swatted her bootie so she knew she was wrong. Brought her in the house and sat her on the couch in a sit./stay so she could take a minute to get back to her kind self again which she did almost instantly. Right back to the sweet face and hugs. She is a sweet soul inside but this seems to be a problem, her guarding. She was an only dog in her previous home so obviously maybe this has a lot to do with it. She is the same with toys, or can be. I want to know what steps I am supposed to take to nip this in the butt. The biting is a huge no no and with 2 kids I have to stop it now before it gets worse. Plus how will we have people over and not trust her 100%? I am thinking maybe we need a behavioralist but would like to get feedback for now in the meantime.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Oh girlie I am so sorry you are having this problem! I wish I had some advice to give but I don't

    "Looking at a bulldog is said to cure the worse of the blues, living with one, serves to prevent them!" -Author unknown

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Let me know as soon as you figure this out. Orion is her kindred spirit. This sounds exactly like her. Another thing that O does ....when I'm cleaning her ears, eyes, washing her face...doing her nails. Any type of grooming or dressing....if Vegas comes to investigate, she snaps at him. Almost like "it's bad enough mom is embarrassing me...stop looking/laughing at me!!!!!" She does this every single time, yet...Vegas still comes over to look at her. During feeding....if Vegas wanders too close to her area..she goes after him. I have never seen her actually break the skin...but she almost tackles him.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Libra926 View Post
    Let me know as soon as you figure this out. Orion is her kindred spirit. This sounds exactly like her. Another thing that O does ....when I'm cleaning her ears, eyes, washing her face...doing her nails. Any type of grooming or dressing....if Vegas comes to investigate, she snaps at him. Almost like "it's bad enough mom is embarrassing me...stop looking/laughing at me!!!!!" She does this every single time, yet...Vegas still comes over to look at her. During feeding....if Vegas wanders too close to her area..she goes after him. I have never seen her actually break the skin...but she almost tackles him.
    Funny you say that cuz I lok at Miila and think "Is this what Orion is like?" I guess so, very spunky indeed! This is so new to me and Cutty as tough as he wants us to think with his grumbling etc he is baffled by this even and acts like a big baby when she goes after him. He is more like"What is this chic doing mama?" SO tough! hahaha Hopefully there is some solution, she is a very good girl aside from this but I have never had a pup that would bite me and I am baffled. lol She doesnt growl or snarl or anything ugly thankfully just a quick head turn and snap.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Going through some semi-similar issues. Brooke has always been spoiled rotten and never shares any toys. Poor Frankie has been really good about it. He usually just comes and gets loved on and lets her keep the bones. But on two occasions he has gotten growly back at her, which makes me a little nervous. Since he has at least 20 lbs on her. I've received all sorts of advice. Some say remove them for awhile until they get more used to each other, some say leave them and make them share, and others say to let them work it out since it establishes the dominant one. I've kinda been doing a combo, I let them have them until it seems like they are getting out of control then everyone is done with them. So they either share or no one gets any. Luckily we have ZERO food aggression issues with either of them, so I have no knowledge on that. I also have no idea what to do about the snapping except maybe removing things that bring her to that place, like don't let her around the raw meat. I was nervous about that when we adopted Frankie, since he's soo big and strong and we don't know his history. I was worried about grabbing at him when he is worked up, with either a fight or his humping issue, and him snapping at me but it is NOT AT ALL the case, we are lucky and he is very submissive and sweet.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    @cali~jenn Well you are on the right track by not letting her get away with that behavior. When you put her on her back do you hold her by her neck? When I would pin one, I grab them firmly by the side of the neck, pin them on their side and hold until they are totally submissive, especially if they try to bite. Biting or snapping is a big no no, I will usually hold for a little while even after they are submissive. Usually only have to do this a few times, then if they ever growl at another one of my bullies or even bow up to one I will sharply tap them on the side of the neck and that will snap them out of it. So maybe try this, and see how it goes. It just takes time.

    But on a lighter note, remember one of the bully rules is, if it's on the floor it's theirs. haha
    Have a Great Bully Day.
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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    You know she actually submits almost the second she thinks I am putting her on her back, it is instant which makes me feel good like she is in the right place mentally. I dont pay much attention to where I hold her but I will make sure I hold her neck from now on. The jabbing is something I will try, then if she snaps at me for it I will put her on her back again. Conway kinda thinks we should let them at it so they can decide where their place is and to a point I kinda think it would be good but I dont like seeing any kind of spat. Cutty could eat her if he wanted to and I would hate for him to get so mad he retaliates for real. Maybe Miila wants to be at the top of their chain and maybe I should let her end up where it ends up? This is what confuses me really cuz I know I cannot interfere with the pecking order and I am controlling it as much as I can now but maybe that isnt helping? I know I am supposed to be ahead of everyone and make that very clear around here but between the 3 is what is confusing me. @Davidh I agree it isnt her fault it is on the floor lol BUT snapping at me to move her is a HUGE no no. None of my fur kids are perfect like I see so many others who actually behave properly BUT this is where I really draw the line, no biting. lol. Glad to know I am on the right track anyhow. Makes me feel a little better. I just wish she wasnt permitted to do WHATEVER she wanted to with the previous owners. I think their kids raised her which isnt saying much. Being so young tho I know it is not too late for sure.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah View Post
    Going through some semi-similar issues. Brooke has always been spoiled rotten and never shares any toys. Poor Frankie has been really good about it. He usually just comes and gets loved on and lets her keep the bones. But on two occasions he has gotten growly back at her, which makes me a little nervous. Since he has at least 20 lbs on her. I've received all sorts of advice. Some say remove them for awhile until they get more used to each other, some say leave them and make them share, and others say to let them work it out since it establishes the dominant one. I've kinda been doing a combo, I let them have them until it seems like they are getting out of control then everyone is done with them. So they either share or no one gets any. Luckily we have ZERO food aggression issues with either of them, so I have no knowledge on that. I also have no idea what to do about the snapping except maybe removing things that bring her to that place, like don't let her around the raw meat. I was nervous about that when we adopted Frankie, since he's soo big and strong and we don't know his history. I was worried about grabbing at him when he is worked up, with either a fight or his humping issue, and him snapping at me but it is NOT AT ALL the case, we are lucky and he is very submissive and sweet.
    I agree to remove temptation, this is something I will also work on. BUT it cant be done all the time so in the meantime I will be on her like glue to bust her. lol You are lucky Frankie is such a sweetheart. I know when we get them at first it is kinda intimidating not knowing their true personalities just yet. These bullies are so strong and their mouths can do so much damage if they wanted to, very intimidating for sure until we get to know them better.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Resource guarding is what it sounds like... everything is mine and you can't have or get close to it. We had this issue (still do) with Banks it took a LONG consistent time of submission, after submission for her to lessen and not react as much. You need to watch and know her body language and stop her before she does it -- it does not go away you need to learn to control it. We had a behaviorist come to the house when Banks was a year old as she was constantly going after Nitschke and we had no idea why. Amy (trainer) showed us the signs and what to watch for... was the best $300 we spent that first year.
    Last edited by 2BullyMama; 12-17-2011 at 03:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    Resource guarding is what it sounds like... everything is mine and you can't have or get close to it. We had this issue (still do) with Banks it took a LONG consistent time of submission, after submission for her to lessen and not react as much. You need to watch and know her body language and stop her before she does it -- it does not go away you need to learn to control it. We had a behaviorist come to the house when Banks was a year old as she was constantly going after Nitschke and we had no idea why. Amy (trainer) showed us the signs and what to watch for... was the best $300 we spent that first year.
    Thats what it is called, I couldnt think of the name of it. haha Exactly what I was thinking. Yes I need to get better in tuned to it cuz she can be quick. Last night we got home VERY late so the pups who slept while we were gone were over excited etc... Mugsy was on the couch, not near any toys or anything and Miila got up next to him. I thought they were going to play cuz the night before they had a wrestling match in the bed while I was trying to go to sleep. Mugsy growled, then Miila and as soon as I could get to them she has his neck/ head in her mouth and would NOT let go. No injuries thankfully but that was the first time I couldnt just pull her off, had to stick my fingers in her mouth to get her to release him. WOW! It was that extra pug neck skin she had ahold of. He was fine but dang if mama didnt get mad at that one. Submitted her by the throat, for a good 5 minutes even tho she wasnt fighting. Then put her in a sit/stay on the couch for at least a half hour. Everything was fine after. She is my challenge for sure. ugh.....

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    Hi Jenn, I'm not expert but here are some things we've tried with ours.. Your girl sounds exactly like mine, lovable, sweet, and bossy!!

    First I started using a 6 foot leash around my waist and walking her like this. When she wasn't paying attention to me, which was often, I'd change directions and go around obstacles - telephone poles or benches for example. Eventually she learned that she needed to pay attention to me and that I was the "boss", this will translate into the household. You will notice them paying attention when they look at you, your feet, or slow down when you do. I know it seems unrelated to the household issues but it's an exercise that will establish trust and leadership between you and your pup. A few times a week I would use the leash inside the house (again around my waist) and take her along with me to do chores and anything else that needed to be done for an hour or so.

    Another thing I'd look into is practicing "nothing in life is free". It's a training method that makes them work, or show patience, in order to get rewards. It seems like you are already doing this by making her wait while the other dogs eat first.

    Here are some links:

    http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

    http://www.calgaryhumane.ca/document.doc?id=41

    http://www.pets.ca/dogs/articles/not...-is-free-nilf/

    Also I wanted to mention that my girl poppy used to be possessive with nylabones and would growl, but since we started the training she no longer shows this dominance.

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    Default Re: Need help from our training experts please!

    @Poppy thank you so much, this is something I have never heard of. I can imagine the looks I would get trying to trick her around poles etc. hahaha. I had looked into the nilf back when my boy got a bad attitude years ago. I make her wait for most things but not everything SO I will start with doorways etc also. Forgot about that. Also yesterday when we got a box of toys in the mail, a deer antler and a plastic bottle toy I let the boys have them first while Miila sat on the other couch with an old bone just watching. This seemed to help also and she waited until they were done before she went and checked them out. I will also keep this up. She gets nothing first and doesnt get to choose anything. I refuse to let this baby get out of hand, if it kills me. And it just might. lol. She is just over a year so I know it is early enough to fix, I hope! I will tie her to me every day and drag her ragged if need be. lmao. Thanks again!

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