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Thread: help with introducing raw marrow bone

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    Poopah Scoopah Become a 4 Paw Member NewEnglandBully's Avatar
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    Default help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Bones cause aggressive behavior in Bass. I don't want to deprive him the benefits, but I have a full house of little ones (so raw bones need to be contained, preferably in his crate and when my children are not around). Due to him not being raw fed, when I introduce a raw marrow bone, it brings out his aggression…I could use some help/advice/suggestions on how to deal w/this. The girls are in school during the day (the youngest only for a few hours) and in bed before 9:00. What is the best time of day, how often and how long should he have one? Is day or evening better? Will he always growl and be overly protective/possessive from now on when given it?

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    I'm going to tag some experts on this one… I'm dealing w/some aggressive behavior in Walter, but it's not related to any object or food.

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Thx Tracey!!

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Chance has similar issues he uses it or tries to use at as tug of war toy - not happening I usually have to offer something he loves to give it up long enough to take it away for a couple of days. The longer he behaves well with it determines on how long it stays in his sight. Cheddar popcorn and cheese or a spray of vinegar and water mix will put it down now depending on what he has in his mouth.

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    does he do this with any other toy/bone or just with the marrow bones?
    When you play with him do you always let him 'take/get' the toy from you (not the bone... any toy - like tug-o-war)?
    When you take the bone from him can he still see it or do you 'hide' it?

    Are there any other signs of resource guarding or 'aggression'
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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    does he do this with any other toy/bone or just with the marrow bones?
    When you play with him do you always let him 'take/get' the toy from you (not the bone... any toy - like tug-o-war)?
    When you take the bone from him can he still see it or do you 'hide' it?

    Are there any other signs of resource guarding or 'aggression'
    - He did this with his Nylabone and I could only give it to him when the younger girls were not home…I have since thrown it away,it was cutting his gums from being too chewed up.

    -Yes, we play tug-o-war w/his other toys. He will let go once I command him to "release".

    -I hide it right after.

    -Yes, he guards his food container if the pantry door is left open and he has guarded other items (toys, stuffed animals,bags of food and he always guards the white trash bags when the garbage is being changed over). The growling he does when guarding toys/food is similar to his "play growl". The growling with the bones are deeper, louder and threatening.

    He becomes extra protective of items around my 7 year old. There is some weird competition thing going on w/him regarding her.

    "Unequivocally the Sweetest"

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    Bones cause aggressive behavior in Bass. I don't want to deprive him the benefits, but I have a full house of little ones (so raw bones need to be contained, preferably in his crate and when my children are not around). Due to him not being raw fed, when I introduce a raw marrow bone, it brings out his aggression…I could use some help/advice/suggestions on how to deal w/this. The girls are in school during the day (the youngest only for a few hours) and in bed before 9:00. What is the best time of day, how often and how long should he have one? Is day or evening better? Will he always growl and be overly protective/possessive from now on when given it?
    Found this article. Maybe it will help you out. I'm preparing to for my new EB pup in 4 weeks and will definitely being going RAW (RMB style).

    Myth: RAW MEAT MAKES DOGS AGGRESSIVE.
    Here is the scenario: the dog has just been switched from kibble and is enjoying a nice meaty bone. When approached while eating, the dog growls and even snaps at the person approaching it. Or it fights over food with the other dogs in the household. Either way, it never used to do this before when it was on kibble, and the owners are beginning to seriously question feeding raw. They often will contact a trainer, who "indentifies" the source of the problem as the meaty bones and will thus take the easy way out—removing the meaty bone "removes" the aggression without addressing the underlying behavioral or relational issues.
    View this situation as a child guarding a steak as opposed to guarding a bowl of Cheerios. A juicy steak is a higher value food, just as a meaty bone is seen as something of higher value than a bowl of kibble. Because it is of higher value, the dog will be more protective of it. This is simple canine behavior.
    But, if your dog is growling at you, its leader, this indicates a problem in your relationship. He is no longer respecting or trusting in your leadership. He is viewing that bone as his, not yours (which it is), and is telling you that he is willing to defend it at all costs. He needs to learn that you are the bringer of resources and the "alpha". He should relinquish his bone without fuss when you ask him. And he should also realize that you are not in competition with him for his food. This is a touchy issue, but the basic premise is that if your dog growls and becomes possessive of his food, your relationship needs reordering. Does this mean you run up to your dog while he is eating, slap him in the face or slam him on his back in an attempt to dominate him? Or confronting him and yanking on his collar to 'show him who is boss'? NO!! These only worsen the situation by telling the dog a) you are unpredictable and cannot be trusted, and b) you are trying to compete for his food. The key is to not let yourself get in these situations in the first place. Work on kind, humane obedience training and on teaching him that relinquishing his possessions to you is a good thing. Also keep in mind that some dogs may growl initially because they are afraid this is just temporary and do not want you to take away this high value object. In this case, give the dog time to adjust to its new diet; you may very well see the "food possessive" behavior disappear. If not, it is time to begin training immediately. For some training suggestions on this issue.

    If your dog is already possessive with its kibble, fix the problem of resource guarding first before switching your dog to raw. See Brian Kilcommons' book Good Owners, Great Dogs, pg 248-249, for a humane, common sense approach to dealing with resource guarding.
    Since a raw meaty bone is worth fighting for, dogs may fight with each other. The simplest solution is to feed the dogs separately in their crates, in different rooms, or in the same room but tethered to opposite sides of the room far away from each other. Just use common sense, and do not keep trying to force the dogs to "get along" at dinner time. Make sure to pick up any leftovers before releasing the dogs.
    Raw meaty bones will not make a dog aggressive toward humans to the point of blatantly attacking people. A dog that unnecessarily growls at or that bites people has a behavioral, temperament, or chronic disease issue that must be addressed immediately. Aggressiveness toward humans is behavioral, temperamental, or induced through rabies vaccines (see a certified classical homeopath for help in reducing the aggressiveness brought on by the vaccine), but it is generally NOT food-caused (although a group of Golden Retrievers that attacked their handlers while fed a certain commercial food stopped doing so when switched to diet of cooked lamb and rice; see the Raw Meaty Bones Newsletter, Volume 5:2). Dogs have been bred for thousands of years to be human companions, to be in close relationships with and in submission to humans. Feeding a dog raw meat is not sufficient to override thousands of years of selective breeding.
    If your dog suddenly shows food possessiveness, be patient, understanding, and firm. Ask and insist kindly that the dog join you to work through this speedbump in your relationship. Avoid taking the easy way out by just not feeding raw, and you will be richly rewarded with a healthier, happy dog and a deeper relationship.

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    - He did this with his Nylabone and I could only give it to him when the younger girls were not home…I have since thrown it away,it was cutting his gums from being too chewed up.

    -Yes, we play tug-o-war w/his other toys. He will let go once I command him to "release".

    -I hide it right after.

    -Yes, he guards his food container if the pantry door is left open and he has guarded other items (toys, stuffed animals,bags of food and he always guards the white trash bags when the garbage is being changed over). The growling he does when guarding toys/food is similar to his "play growl". The growling with the bones are deeper, louder and threatening.

    He becomes extra protective of items around my 7 year old. There is some weird competition thing going on w/him regarding her.
    @Laurie... So sorry i somehow missed your reply-- how are things going? Is he still doing all this
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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Hi friends, thanks for the reply… @Michael Colosimo that was informative reading, thanks for sharing, is the writer familiar w/the English Bulldog breed? Could you also include the source?
    I ask because when I first became interested in researching this particular issue it was because a lady at the pet toy store was the one who brought it up…she asked what kind of food I fed and went on to say that she was told (I think by her vet?) "higher protein foods cause aggressive behavior 'in this breed". It was the first I had heard of this, I asked Lisa if she had ever heard of this, and I had trouble finding reputable sources to back up that statement. Once I witnessed this first-hand I went off on my "research tangents" lol.
    @2BullyMama no apologies necessary. I have since switched to antlers, which has been working out well, no aggression w/those and keeping the teeth nice and healthy.
    I put in an e-mail to Jim Crosby for his feedback and am waiting a reply.
    No more bone marrow in this house until I know exactly what is going on…I know some trainers will not agree w/this, but I know my training and I know my dog. Until I know more, he will not be getting any more marrow bones. I realize this goes against the article Michael sited too, but I am most comfortable with this decision. I still have to keep in mind my little ones in the pack and can not allow this behavior (until I understand more and am fully capable of what the training will entail)…probably best next school season when they will be in school full-time and I will have plenty of time to train and assess.
    Thank you for following up. I thoroughly enjoy training this breed!! I want to be a bulldog psychologist when I grow up
    Last edited by NewEnglandBully; 12-20-2015 at 12:43 PM. Reason: spelling.

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    Hi friends, thanks for the reply… @Michael Colosimo that was informative reading, thanks for sharing, is the writer familiar w/the English Bulldog breed? Could you also include the source?
    I ask because when I first became interested in researching this particular issue it was because a lady at the pet toy store was the one who brought it up…she asked what kind of food I fed and went on to say that she was told (I think by her vet?) "higher protein foods cause aggressive behavior 'in this breed". It was the first I had heard of this, I asked Lisa if she had ever heard of this, and I had trouble finding reputable sources to back up that statement. Once I witnessed this first-hand I went off on my "research tangents" lol.
    @2BullyMama no apologies necessary. I have since switched to antlers, which has been working out well, no aggression w/those and keeping the teeth nice and healthy.
    I put in an e-mail to Jim Crosby for his feedback and am waiting a reply.
    No more bone marrow in this house until I know exactly what is going on…I know some trainers will not agree w/this, but I know my training and I know my dog. Until I know more, he will not be getting any more marrow bones. I realize this goes against the article Michael sited too, but I am most comfortable with this decision. I still have to keep in mind my little ones in the pack and can not allow this behavior (until I understand more and am fully capable of what the training will entail)…probably best next school season when they will be in school full-time and I will have plenty of time to train and assess.
    Thank you for following up. I thoroughly enjoy training this breed!! I want to be a bulldog psychologist when I grow up
    Laurie - I found it on the following website. The Many Myths of Raw Feeding

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Colosimo View Post
    Laurie - I found it on the following website. The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
    Thanks for the link Michael @Michael Colosimo I e-mailed Carissa, as I believe all pages were written by that name? for her feedback regarding English Bulldogs, aggressive behavior w/raw feeding and it being a breed or training issue…hoping my e-mail is answered, it would be nice to read what that person has to offer!! Thx again for the link xo

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    Default Re: help with introducing raw marrow bone

    Unfortunately, my e-mails to the owner of this site are bouncing back undeliverable. I would have liked to hear what they would have said about raw feeding w/this particular breed and aggression vs. training!! Though it is great that this site offers some statistics and insight, it would be nice to get in-touch with the actual source behind the website. I did notice that there were links to some other (what seem reputable) sites, but I haven't reached out to those links.

    I will await a reply from Jim Crosby to see what his opinion is and follow up.

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