Raw Diet...Is This A Good Idea??

[drdadx2]

So I've been looking at an easy yet nutritious raw meal for my English Bulldog and I think I've found one.

10 lbs. of ground Chicken and Bone (Neck, thighs, breast, drums, whatever you can get cheapest)
3 lbs. of Carrots
1.5 lbs. of Wheat bran
1 c. of Extra virgin olive oil
For puppies just add unflavored Jell-O cooked oatmeal or rice.

Couple of questions on this one though for you experienced feeders.
1. My dog is grain-free and gluten-free due to a yeast allergy. What can I substitute with the wheat bran to get the nutrients? (I'm also open to any other tweaks you might have to the recipe...this just looks like a good starting point for my adventure!)
2. I have found a place locally where I can get 40 lbs of chicken necks for $27.00 and 5 lbs of chicken liver for $10. I was thinking of doing a split somehow between those two so she is getting everything. Good idea or not? I'm planning on making up a couple weeks to a months worth of food at a time. I'm looking at meat grinders now.
3. Is there anything that is blatantly missing from this that I need to add? I'm going to give probiotics, salmon oil, coconut oil, and possibly some fruits periodically through the meals. I'm trying to not make "rookie mistakes" and give my baby the best meal possible.

 

[JAKEISGREAT]

[MENTION=1209]savemejeebus[/MENTION].. [MENTION=3354]RiiSi[/MENTION].. [MENTION=1714]Sherry[/MENTION]

 

[RiiSi]

If your bully has yeast problems I would ditch the carrots and all grains and carrots too. You also need to feed at least 3 different source of protein (and bone). Chicken bones have hardly any calsium. All veggies and fruits should be pureed and preferably freezed aswell. If you feed at least 3 sources of protein/bone (10-20% bone)and 10 % organs and half of that liver your bully will get all she needs, no need for grains.

 

[drdadx2]

[MENTION=3354]RiiSi[/MENTION] Thanks for the information. Okay so eliminate all vegetables and fruit. Should I start right out with the 3 proteins, 5% liver, 5% other organs right off the bat? Everything that I have read says to start off with just chicken which is why I said that I would eventually add in beef. Not for sure what I'd use for the third protein maybe pork? Should I keep the probiotics (what kind do you use?), salmon oil, and coconut oil? As time gets closer for her to get out of her training then I'll start hitting up the grocery stores, meat markets, etc. Her trainer currently feeds her a PMR based diet and I can't afford that, don't have the time necessary, and don't have the freezer space. I would like to stick to as ground of a diet as I can until I get comfortable with her eating big pieces of meat with me. I'd never heard of the raw food diet until I got accepted for her so its been a crash course. My main concern (even though the trainer isn't and feeds the big meats and bones) is that she will gulp and choke or chew on something and chip/break off teeth. I'm just now getting ok with having bone in the diet. Not trying to be a pest, but if you have the time could you write it out (sample diet if you will) what it should look like, pretty much break it down Big Bird style, so I have something to go off of. I'm a very visual person so its hard for me to comprehend exactly the 3 proteins, 5 &5 concept.

 

[Sherry]

[MENTION=8172]drdadx2[/MENTION] I just started raw on Friday, I purchased a grinder and did my research before I started. I have 5 bullys and started with chicken. as a veggie I took frozen green beans pulverized in the food processor, then one cored apple with skin on, a hand full of fresh parsley and pulverized all together , next I added the Enzymes and probiotics to the green smoothy. freeze in ice cube tray. I weighed out 2% of their body weight for each meal it's about 1/4 of ground breast meat and 3/4 of ground leg with skin and bone . When grinding your own diet, meat should be half frozen, or it will not grind properly. I have not used salmon oil lately or coconut oil, but have in the past, I'm using flax seed oil now. I put that fresh into the food when I serve it. Also a supplement for joints called Regenex. Hope this is of some help, there's lots of different ways of doing the raw diet. Do a bit of research and choose what works best for you and your bully.

 

[anatess]

My opinion is, if you have a yeasty dog, I'll stick with the PMR. And if he's already eating PMR, then he's already a pro at crunching bone and tearing meat. It's the simplest thing to do. Dog's have been crunching bone and tearing meat for eons. The nutrients he needs is found in the whole prey model... Liver, kidneys, secreting organs all rich in vitamins and minerals... Chicken feet rich in glucosamine... Meat rich in phosphorous matched with bone rich in calcium... Skin containing needed fat... All in a package of highly digestible proteins and high moisture content with very low carbs and sugar that yeast can't thrive on.

Think about our human babies... We cut up grapes and mash bananas fearful of them choking on it. But, that doesn't last that long. In no time at all, babies grow up and learn to eat stuff without choking on it.

Can dogs choke? Of course they can, they choke on kibble even. So yes, I do understand the human desire to grind everything up. So you can also do go ground PMR.

As far as cost goes. I've budgeted $1/lb for my dogs. But I spent loads more than that on my dogs because I went with free range chicken and grass-fed beef for their first few weeks on PMR. If I would have followed the regular meat sales at the locall butcher, I could have stayed under 99 cents a pound. I have a chest freezer that a friend of mine gave me so I bought organs (beef hearts/kidney/liver and chicken/turkey gizzards) from the regular beef and poultry section (not the free range or grass-fed ones) at 40# cases from the local butcher for $35 a case that lasts over 6 months with my 3 dogs. The cheapest beef cut they have is $1.99/lb ground beef (70/30) so I feed more beef hearts and gizzards (counted as muscle meat in PMR) than ground beef. Then whole chicken (you can get this cheap... 79cents a pound on sale right now), turkey (just had a 99 cent a pound sale on turkey breast at the local grocery in last week's circular). I plan to feed rabbit starting mid-March which I can get from rodentpro for $11 for a 12 lb rabbit. But I'm thinking I'm going to splurge on the 3lb rabbits which is $7 each and give each dog one of their own for a gorge meal instead of sharing one carcass. And then there's a co-op in Florida that periodically orders green tripe chunks from raw4paw in NY that I can get green tripe from. It's a lot more than 99cents a pound but it's a lot cheaper than the green tripe at PetSmart.

Yes, it's a bit of work handling the meat and watching for deals, but it's comparable to cooking rice and carrots, I think. I actually enjoy doing it (which is wierd because I sure don't enjoy meal preps for the humans in my house). I guess it's just because I just started this a few weeks ago.

Hope this helps.

 

[anatess]

P.S. living in Florida, we go fishing a lot. We usually catch whiting from the Atlantic ocean that we humans eat. The dogs will now share whiting... High protein, low fat but rich in Omega-3. And then twice a year, my boys go hog hunting in Gainesville... $125 for any size hog - which could go to 400 lbs. Only 300 of it is usable though because most of the hog bones are too big for the dogs. Anyway, these are future stuff so I guess I'll report on it later if these sources work out.

And I apologize if I just go on and on off topic... I am such a fanatic with PMR. So yes, I admit to a certain bias.

 

[anatess]

Last thing...

When starting out, it's better to ease the introduction of different types of protein - I went with one type for 2 weeks (whole chicken) then add new type each week after that. But since your dog is already on PMR, then just ask the breeder what he's been eating and stick with that until he settles into his new home.

 

[drdadx2]

Thanks, for the comments. I understand what everyone is saying. I just get confused because everyone is telling me different stuff and pulling me different ways. I understand that that recipe isn't "perfect" but I'm trying to get started. I don't want some recipe where I have to use a huge math problem. I'm not looking for something that is easy for me and healthy for my dog. Whether that has vegetables or different proteins or something else that's all I want.

 

[anatess]

Thanks, for the comments. I understand what everyone is saying. I just get confused because everyone is telling me different stuff and pulling me different ways. I understand that that recipe isn't "perfect" but I'm trying to get started. I don't want some recipe where I have to use a huge math problem. I'm not looking for something that is easy for me and healthy for my dog. Whether that has vegetables or different proteins or something else that's all I want.

I think we make it much too complicated than it needs to be. Think about it this way - when you strive to eat healthy for your own or your children's health, do you look at it as a huge math problem when you see the food pyramid? No... you guesstimate everything and eat what you think is a healthy combination. That's the same thing for the dogs except dogs have a different food pyramid than humans.

So, just relax, pick a well-thought-out method (whichever works for you, and that includes kibble) and let the dog tell you what's missing...

Good luck.

P.S. I think you posted this same question on dogster. I saw some really good responses there too with a PMR "recipe" even.

 

[Angelgirl]

On a subject like raw feeding, everyone has an opinion. It's best to do a lot of research and figure out what will work best for you and your dog. I started out with premade raw frozen but it was sooo expensive. Then we tried grinding our own with 40 lbs of chicken necks. That failed so I looked in yahoo groups for local co-ops to buy raw food. I found an awesome place that has a pick up 15 minutes from my house. The mix comes with everything in it including organic whole eggs and apple cider vinegar .i'm so glad to have this board to get ideas from all the seasoned pro's no matter how you decide you want to feed raw.

 

[ame16]

I would like to second everything @anatess said in this thread.