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Thread: Thinking about making the switch...

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    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Thinking about making the switch...

    I'm contemplating switching over to raw...I really don't feel like testing out all of these kibbles, and hoping that one of them clicks with her, and I really don't think she wants to either. Right now she is on Nutrisca Lamb & Chick Pea. I thought she was doing great on it, but I still feel like she could be doing better. She still has allergies, and still has poop issues. It's just getting annoying now dealing with all the ailments and wondering if its her food. If I can cut that out of the guessing game I can start making better judgment for her well being. I want to get an allergy test done on her soon too to help narrow down where exactly her allergies are stemming from.

    Anyways, I had some questions about feeding her raw. First off I don't know if I can afford it...How much does it cost to feed raw on a monthly basis? Keep in mind Lilly is only 32lbs also, and considered a "mini." And how do you buy? Lol, I know that last one sounded dumb, but I don't know what I'm really doing here. I figure I'd located some kind of butcher and go from there. But it would be nice to have some kind of list to bring so I could just be like "hey I need 5 livers, 2 hearts, 3 this, 6 that..." I would also like her diet to not have any chicken in it because I think shes allergic. She was on merricks grannys pot pie and had some issues. Any info on making the switch, would be helpful. But mostly I need to know what to get, where to get it, and how much it will probably cost lol. Thanks again for all your input!

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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Chicken is the easiest to transition on in raw feeding but if you think your dog is allergic to chicken then you could do turkey,my bulldog was allergic to chicken but then again she was allergic to most things!,I now have a chihuahua who I raw feed,I did not want to feed her chicken so I started her on frozen premade blocks of turkey,rabbit,tripe,she had a few issues with runny poops but I just put up with that ,it's been 5 weeks now and I have transitioned her to pork heart,lamb and beef Heart,kidney,lamb and beef and small amounts of liver and her poops are good,I give her lamb ribs but just once a week,raw can be started without chicken but just be prepared for the runs and if runs occur then feed more bone like pork or lamb ribs,my bully ate roughly a pound a day but my chi gets 3oz a day!,price wise I managed to source a lot of free stuff so the cost was low but I'm in the uk so money is different here,do some research and find what's best for you and your bulldog,but feeding raw is cheap and so much more healthier than kibble,karen

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    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    So....

    I went to a local supermarket to see what they carried, and turns out they had a lot of different stuff. Looks like I have a source, and nothing seemed too expensive which was nice. I brought home some chicken necks too...Figured I'd give it a go. Anyways, she seemed to like it but not eating it whole. She was able to get one down, but the other once she choked on. After she choked she was kind of reluctant to eat anymore of it. I think if I grind it up and made it easy she'd be totally cool with it. Plus I can do a month at a time.

    So, now that I want to take the plunge I'd like a recipe to follow to make this concoction. First off, I figured making a month supply at a time would be nice, and every month or two changing the menu a bit to offer variety. But this month to make things simple I'm going to start with chicken. I calculated I would need approximately 20lbs of food for an entire month. So following that 80/10/10 rule I would need 16lbs of chicken, x lbs of ______, and x lbs of ______? Now where to go after chicken I don't know either. So 16lbs of _____, and x lbs of______, and x lbs of _____? If someone could fill in those gaps I'd be super grateful!

    Questions on organs....First off, I noticed a lot of chicken hearts, chicken feet, chicken gizzards and the like...Can you even feed chicken organs?
    Beef organs I came across were, Beef tripe, beef oxtail, beef kidney, beef heart, beef liver, and beef tongue. Are any of those ok? I keep seeing "green" tripe on the forum here, but I just saw the white kind I guess? Lol.

    If chicken organs ARE ok...Can I just buy whole chickens and grind them up giblets & all and just feed that? Like I said I want to prepare a months worth of food at a time. I figure I will have a chicken month, beef month, etc...But for chicken couldn't I essentially just use a whole chicken rather then buying, just necks, and then buying some beef liver and adding it to the mix. Wouldn't all the giblets be good enough for an organ source? I would like to add something else to it though like maybe some salmon to get some omegas in there? Just brainstorming here let me know if this is a bad idea too...Thanks!!!

    Sorry for the rant, and if any of this this sounds stupid but very new to this, and I just want to have it down so I can prepare accordingly.
    Last edited by LiLlilly; 07-09-2012 at 01:50 AM.

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    I think if you feed true raw (not prepackaged) it is less or equal to high quality kibble, of course this depends on how good you get a sourcing your meats. We have plenty of raw feeders on here that should respond soon.

    @savemejeebus @RiiSi @laurendoodler there I thought of a few!


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    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Quote Originally Posted by desertskybulldogs View Post
    I think if you feed true raw (not prepackaged) it is less or equal to high quality kibble, of course this depends on how good you get a sourcing your meats. We have plenty of raw feeders on here that should respond soon.

    @savemejeebus @RiiSi @laurendoodler there I thought of a few!


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    Wait...How could kibble even compare, and what do you mean pre-packaged? Lol, I'm such a newb. Do you mean if I make a month's worth at a clip and freezing it? So freezing takes nutritional value away?

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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    I think she meant that raw is comparable or less than kibble price-wise. Especially if you are making it a month at a time. If I can find the meats on sale then I definitly save more money on raw. Some of the bagged kibble is mega-expensive.

    When I was first starting we didn't do organ meat till we were a couple weeks in because it can give them runny poo, a little goes a long long way when it is organ meat. Keep some of the good ole canned pumpkin just in case they get diarrhea. I have always fed chicken organs. I do my shopping at the grocery store too as I couldn't really find a butcher here that would have saved me much money.

    One tip that I got from someone here about buying in the store though (especially if it is chicken)...make sure the meat isn't packaged as "enhanced". It won't hurt them but it usually means there is a whopping extra dose of salt or broth on it which should be avoided if you can.

    Raw eggs are fun too. I think I gave my dogs raw eggs after we were a week or two in. At first they didn't really understand the concept but now they woof them down shell and all (the shell is very edible and good for them too).

    Sorry if that post is hopping all over the place. LOL You will really start to see the benefit quickly. (And they don't poop nearly as much which is awesome!) Good luck and you can always PM me if you have any questions or concerns. I relied heavily on the other EBN members when I was getting started too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiLlilly View Post
    Wait...How could kibble even compare, and what do you mean pre-packaged? Lol, I'm such a newb. Do you mean if I make a month's worth at a clip and freezing it? So freezing takes nutritional value away?
    Yes I meant what Mamaandi said, it is cheaper or comparable to high quality kibble. By prepackaged I am speaking of frozen raw diets made by dog food companies. These are very expensive!! But I treat mine with them on occasion.


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    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Thanks for the tips!!

    I'm paying 40 bucks for a 15lb bag of Nutrisca right now and it doesn't even last a month. So I would say it costs me at least 50 for an entire month of food. This shouldn't cost me more then 30 if my calculations are correct lol!! And it's way healthier!! Giddy up

    Well this morning I wasn't going to try and feed her the chicken again being it was such a pain to do it last night, but I did anyway. First I tried cutting the necks up into small pieces and offering. She looked at it again like I was nuts, and began licking hoping it would fill her up I think lol. She gave up eventually and walked away...

    This was boggling my mind and I didn't think it was possible for a dog not to like raw meat! But I decided to throw it in a pan and heat it up a bit. I maybe put it on for about 30 seconds on high just to create an aroma for her. And BOOM!! She gobbled the entire bowl!! She came looking for more so I gave her another half completely raw and ate it no problems. So I'm thinking I'll keep cooking it a little until it just becomes second nature to her, and then stop once shes got the hang of it. I gotta say that it is kinda cool watching her eat raw meat too. I like seeing her break the bones down, and figure out how to get it down. Pretty primal and entertaining!!

    But one thing, this morning she had some diarrhea it was pretty gross...How long does it usually take for that to stop, and at what point should I worry? I know it's kind of expected, but if there's something I can do to make it an easier transition I'll do so. Should I just offer a little pumpkin after each meal? And should I be feeding her once a day, or twice a day?

    Also if someone could chime in on what kind of beef cuts I should be buying that would be great!!
    Last edited by LiLlilly; 07-09-2012 at 02:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Yay for you and Lilly!!! Congrats on a successful raw feeding.

    I used to buy a big tub of plain yougurt and a can of pumpkin and mix them together and give each dog a dollop with their raw everyday. If you gave her any organ meat then I would stop as it will make the diarrhea worse. It's always a fine art to tweak their meat vs bone vs organ mixture so that the poos are just right. LOL

    You will notice a big difference in the poo within the week I would say (that's about how long our took). There will be much less of it (Tank only goes every 2 days and it's usually just once a day), it won't be terrible smelly and it turns white and disintergrates if you don't pick it up right away.

    I love watching our pooches eat raw. They seem totally satisfied when they are done, it's great.

    As far as the cuts of beef...that's the glory of it...You can buy any cut you want. The only thing that I have heard to avoid is the leg pieces of big game or big animals (elk, bison, deer that type of thing...but most of us don't have access to those huge pieces of meat anyhow so it doesn't much matter) because they are meant to support the weight of a big animal and can actually damage the teeth if you have an intense chewing dog.

    You can feed her as many times a day as you feel comfortable with. Some people break it up and some people feed all at once. I personally feed them all at once in the morning. It really just depends on the dog. If she eats fast and you want to stretch it out then you could break the meal in two.

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    Bully Bootie Duty LiLlilly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Quote Originally Posted by MamaAndi View Post
    Yay for you and Lilly!!! Congrats on a successful raw feeding.

    I used to buy a big tub of plain yougurt and a can of pumpkin and mix them together and give each dog a dollop with their raw everyday. If you gave her any organ meat then I would stop as it will make the diarrhea worse. It's always a fine art to tweak their meat vs bone vs organ mixture so that the poos are just right. LOL

    You will notice a big difference in the poo within the week I would say (that's about how long our took). There will be much less of it (Tank only goes every 2 days and it's usually just once a day), it won't be terrible smelly and it turns white and disintergrates if you don't pick it up right away.

    I love watching our pooches eat raw. They seem totally satisfied when they are done, it's great.

    As far as the cuts of beef...that's the glory of it...You can buy any cut you want. The only thing that I have heard to avoid is the leg pieces of big game or big animals (elk, bison, deer that type of thing...but most of us don't have access to those huge pieces of meat anyhow so it doesn't much matter) because they are meant to support the weight of a big animal and can actually damage the teeth if you have an intense chewing dog.

    You can feed her as many times a day as you feel comfortable with. Some people break it up and some people feed all at once. I personally feed them all at once in the morning. It really just depends on the dog. If she eats fast and you want to stretch it out then you could break the meal in two.
    Thanks!!

    She great at dinner time too, and didn't care it was uncooked. So far so good!! I was curious though to know if you guys would say that chicken necks are a good "starter" piece? Is there too much bone, or too much anything for that matter? And I know you say you can use any cut of beef, but in terms of meat to bone ratio, are there better cuts then others? I know the weight bearing parts are bad because it's denser bone, but it seems that the beef has a lot more meat then bone.

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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Most people seem to say that chicken backs are a good starter. They aren't widely available in all states though I have found, so some people start on chicken quarters (just the leg and thigh still fused together). That's where my pooches started.
    Honestly when I do feed beef (and it isn't real often, we mostly do pork, chicken, and turkey and very ocassionally fish) they usually end up getting something with no bones in it. They have been on raw for quite awhile now though and won't get runny poo if they skip bone in one days meal.

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    Default Re: Thinking about making the switch...

    Oops, sorry so late chiming in, from the title I thought you were switching to another kibble. My bad!

    First, congrats in switching! It's certainly not for everyone, lol, but the results can be so amazing. Now the poop. What did she eat exactly when she had soft poop? Only chicken necks the whole day, or did she eat some kibble as well? Chicken necks have a lot of bone, meaning the poops should be solid, so I'm assuming she had some kibble as well. If you take her off kibble and switch immediately to raw, we can try to tweak it to whatever she needs.

    And as for chicken allergies, I've read and heard that although some pups are allergic to chicken in kibble, it's not true for the raw form. They say it's most likely due to the way kibble is processed. Of course, some dogs can be allergic to any chicken, but the possibility is still very small.

    If you can find chicken quarters, that would be a great start. They have more than 10% bone, but the amount is good for beginners. I'd take off the skin as well to avoid runny poops. You can save these and feed them later when her tummy adjusts to the diet. My boys are approx. 50 lbs and they get a little over a pound each total for the day. Since they're not overly active, 2% is a good aim in the beginning. Once she's accustomed to everything, you can see how she's doing and if you think she needs to gain more weight, add a bit more and if she's getting plump, reduce the amount. But for now since she's only starting, its better to under-feed instead of over-feed in order to control the poop consistency .... and yes, I've made that mistake! lol.

    For the tripe question, it's green tripe, not the white/bleached kind you find in grocery stores. It's illegal for butchers to sell them because they're not for human consumption, so you may need to find rawfeeding store. Another source is to find a local rawfeeding group. I get a lot of my meat from fellow rawfeeders, including fresh green tripe and beef muscle meat, at really great prices. You can also share contacts which is another great way to save money.

    I get the boys' food at a variety of places. Ethnic food markets are great for those 'odd' meat cuts. For example, I get green tripe, ground muscle meat and venison from local rawfeeders. Whole rabbits from a farmer. Whole turkey, whole chicken and whole ducks at at a chinese/indian market, along with beef, lamb and goat. I try to buy in bulk whenever things are on sale and stock up the freezer. But it's certainly doable if you only buy for the week. I try to put daily portions in baggies so all that needs to be done is to take a couple of bags out in the morning to defrost and once you get home from work everything is good to serve.

    Oh and for beef and pork bones, actually any kind of bone, I always try to feel if the edges are sharp or not. It's the paranoia in me. If I find that they are on the dangerous side, I try to dull that piece by cutting some off and so forth. Again, it's what you're comfortable with.

    As for the price, I aim for $1.50 avg per day for each. It certainly does fluctuate according to sale prices ... and how spoiled to want them to be.

    Hope that helps! Let us know how things go!
    Last edited by savemejeebus; 07-10-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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