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Thread: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

  1. #13
    Rescue Volunteer acarabias's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    I feed my puppies raw, they love it, only poop twice a day and have beautiful coats.. they do have tear stains, and not sure why? I have a commercial grinder that grinds the bones and meat; I have older dogs at home with no teeth or very weak teeth and they cannot chew at all. I am thinking about introducing the eb puppies to carcasses, but not sure either since they just swallow everything and never chew. I'm afraid they'll choke.. And with all respect to the first post; any meat yo get from the grocery store or butcher is certified for human consumption, or human grade, so it is OK to feed your pups

  2. #14
    Kennel Cleaner sowdie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    I feed my bully the raw patties. There are a number of brands to choose from and I'm seeing more and more of them pop up, but I use Nature's Variety. It's expensive, but it was even more expensive bringing Lola to the vet every other week for her allergies. She's been great ever since. Good weight, soft, shiny coat, and 1 poop a day.

  3. #15
    Pet Sitter Become a 4 Paw Member Lindathedogsmaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    Please forgive me for adding some things-- But I need t clarify-- some issues regarding meat used in foods, and just what the USDA does and is -- the usda simply inspects that the protein is inspected at time of slaughter,to comply with regulations.!! that is at slaughter---not after ----

    What makes Fromm better is their claim of using only meats that are USDA-inspected.
    on the surface Kirkland and Fromm may LOOK the same. they are both USDA inspected at slaughter, the the REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE IS ---KIRKLAND PROTEIN COMES from a RENDERING PLANT!!!! (THAT IS WHAT IS LEFT OVER FROM HUMAN CONSUMPTION! !!!!!!

    WHILE THE FROMM--COMES STRAIGHT FROM THE---- BUTCHER--AND IS -MUSCLE MEAT((MEANING ,PRIME CUTS OF MEAT,THE ROASTS STEAKS,)) STRAIGHT FROM THE BUTCHER !!!! DAILY ,

    IF A MEAT ISN'T MUSCLE MEAT, IT ISN'T PRIME CUT QUALITY!!!!
    ask your self where you would like your protein to come from.??????

    and Fromm, and great 4 life are the only 2 brands that include,the pre and pro biotics,(guaranteed in writing,---in the guaranteed---- analysis,)))on the bag-check it out, while other brands may state they have the pre and pro biotics in the food--they will not guarantee it in writing within the guaranteed analysis,in writing, that would be legally binding by law to have any given amount in the food!!!! Fromm does-and says how much!!! check it out.

    all other brands of foods need additives like pre and pro biotics !!! and that includes the old stand by Natures variety !! they have not up graded the food lately!!!

    I am just saying --there is a lot more to judging food than what appears on the labels,
    join the truth about pet foods, and see. $17.95 per year. totally unbiased. but still
    but at not quite good enough for Bulldogs. least you will find out the truth about package labels
    If you have a question regarding dog food, or behavior! call or e-mail me anytime.
    Linda Parks
    360-681-5089
    bullysmum@gmail.com

  4. #16
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    well if your going to cook the food then your going to have to feed rice or bones or something to make the poo not runny. i ran into this with sarah when i had to feed her boiled chicken when she had a severe reaction to the dog food i was feeding. i was afraid to feed the rice with it as she maybe allergic to rice. so it was boiled chicken and cooked hamburger for like a week. well she got severe diarrhea from it so we put he back on kibble. she did do much better on the boiled chicken and hamburger with her allergies. but you must feed something with it also it seems.

  5. #17
    Pet Sitter Become a 4 Paw Member Lindathedogsmaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    if your dog is 6 months or more , it is time to go to adult food, the Gold style is what comes in puppy formula, any of the Gold will be either ,puppy, adult, or senior.which is good for Bulldogs because it is 1 to 2 % lower in protein.
    If you have a question regarding dog food, or behavior! call or e-mail me anytime.
    Linda Parks
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  6. #18
    Pet Sitter Become a 4 Paw Member Lindathedogsmaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    if dogs are getting a home cooked diet, -they need to have vitamins, and calcium. you can buy bone meal powder at any health food store, or online is a good brand too. but liquid children's vitamins are the best for absorption. any where from 1/4 tsp to 1/2 tsp per day(I use the holistic children s vitamins in the health food isle in the grocery store) but I have cooked for many of my dogs for years with no bones, or rice--I use yams (peels on please for fiber) and I have never had runny stools. Bulldogs should never have firm stools, but soft -but formed stools !!!! if a Bulldog has firm stools he/she is eating corn or another filler, that in turn acts like concrete!

    simply make sure that the carbs are 1/4 of the meat, and veggies,and fruit. those should be 1/8th each
    if anyone needs more help with a simple meal for dogs , just email me , I would rather give dogs bone meal or calcium powder than bones--those need surgery to remove, and if you are feeding raw, some meat is OK for the bones, because they are not hard enough to splinter. but you must know what you are doing.
    rabbit is soft enough for bones not to splinter, but few other s are.
    If you have a question regarding dog food, or behavior! call or e-mail me anytime.
    Linda Parks
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  7. #19
    Pet Sitter Become a 4 Paw Member Lindathedogsmaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    I might add that --very few dogs are allergic to grains---really it is the quality of the grains used in the inferior dog foods that are causing a reaction.!!! unless a dog has been to a dermatologist for allergy testing. go with the fact that . it is the quality, not the grain!! I have so many times seen 2 or more foods with apparent like ingredients!!on the bag. BUT on closer inspection one will be quality portion of the oats.brown rice,sweet potatoes!!! rather than the broken pieces,parts and or hulls, and to BULLDOGS it makes all the difference in the world!!!
    and don't forget--if feeding non grain foods-(grain free) the protein is going to way higher!!! then yo run into HOT SPOTS!!from to much protein!!!every 2% lower the protein the better!!
    If you have a question regarding dog food, or behavior! call or e-mail me anytime.
    Linda Parks
    360-681-5089
    bullysmum@gmail.com

  8. #20
    Dog Groomer luseaann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    It is the information in threads like this that make me fear feeding commercial dog food. It never occurred to me to wonder what meat and meat by-products actually mean. I started a modified raw diet for my bullies. I was cooking for the sometimes, but realize that uncooked meat is more nutritious. Some raw feeders say that dogs are strictly carnivores and don't need vegetables and grains, but my dogs love those things. They are not in love with chicken (which is cheap) so I sear the outsides a bit to entice them. I don't think it lessens the integrity of the bones any. I also cook them whole grains, like brown rice, barley, lentils and give them raw or frozen vegetables like peas and carrots and spinach.

    I've only just started so I haven't been able to source cheap meat yet. I checked yahoo groups and there is nothing in my area as far as co-ops go. I haven't contacted any butchers as yet, but I've been able to find some good deals in regular grocery stores. The consensus seems to be to try to stay below $1/lb in cost which is less than premium canned food costs. Whenever I find meat marked down, I buy it, divide it up into daily meals, and freeze. I also leave kibble out in case I don't get the amount of food right and they are hungry. My bullies have never overeaten. They just walk away when they are full.

    I have noticed that they are happy, enjoy eating, including crunching bones (scary), and have healthier fur coats. Sorry this is so long, but I am quite, quite interested in the topic.
    Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend. ~Corey Ford

  9. #21
    Rescue Volunteer acarabias's Avatar
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    I also feed raw. I do give them mostly chicken and some turkey and beef. I include organs and eggs with shell. Once in a while raw veggies. I Supplement with vit E and salmon oil too. They do have firm stools but they dont strain and it comes out easy.

    Eagerly and Nervously awaiting the homecoming of Bruno Cannoli

  10. #22
    Pet Sitter Become a 4 Paw Member Lindathedogsmaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    I love this --Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
    Oh --I am thanking you for trying to give them more than the dry kibble. !! this is why I am always saying to add fruit and veggies--all of it is good for them EXCEPT---RAISINS/GRAPES(KIDNEY FAILURE) OR ONIONS-MACADAMIA NUTS(WHO COULD AFFORD TO FEED THEM ANYWAY??) all other veggies and fruit is great for them, and --it dilutes the urine!! something Bulldogs are renown for is --- urine infections !!!! but the fruit and veggies dilute the urine ,and keep the possibility low for stones!! one other thing I try to do is add,just a bit-1/4 cup[ broth to the drinking water,especially in the summer, to get them to drink more water, and any canned broth is a bit salty which also makes them drink more!that s the only reason I OK the broth,with that much salt in it.
    the thing with meat or bones, is #1 dogs can get e-coli like humans can, so if you know the butcher and can feel like the butchering process is very clean,then feed raw!!dogs can also get salmonella too. so cook eggs!!
    personally I like to cook the meat at least 1/2 way! then I do not worry!!! dogs have such short systems that it takes nothing to make them sick!!! and I have had a few bad experiences with store bought raw meat patties, natures variety ,and that has been the stand by for Bulldogs for years!! but if the delivery man lets the food partially thaw!! then the food can be bad,and yo have dogs with days of diarrhea!! NOT FUN !! d they always give you a refund!! but my dogs get sick in the mean time))does it happen a lot??? NO but I wont take that chance!!--((an as for feeding bones of any kind-- any brief sugery is going to run at least $1500.00--I do not have that kind of money - to chance giving them a bone to chew--ESPECIALLY CHICKEN OR POULTRY bones--they SPLINTER !!!! and can puncture anything any where all the way down!! any bone can get lodged and need to be surgically removed. I will let them chew on a big beef knuckle bone(or a knee joint) they can't swallow it, but can chew it to death for days!! rabbit bones are the only raw bones that are soft enough to NOT splinter!! so it is up to you . what I do often is 2 or 3 times a week I make a big pot of stew/soup and add lots of veggies,meat, rice yams any veggies that are in season, or on sale, frozen, canned, fresh what ever. I do not salt the food, but when it is done I remove a portion for my self, and then add fruit into the pot,and they will scarf it up , and get used to the fruit.. I usually wait until chicken is 59cents a lb or close to that and buy up lots. cut them into 1/4 rs,it only takes a leg or a thigh for a dogs meal, and the rest,in veggies, and fruit.I use lots of rosemary, basil thyme cilantro garlic, and the broth on it is so good for them to stay hydrated.mine have always loved blue berries, (frozen are like Popsicle, and they love asparagus, any way, raw,frozen ,cooked. I don't get carried away with cabbage, but some is fine.
    and in the summer, I put the pot of soup in a plastic ice cream bucket, and freeze it ,and part way frozen I add a stick to freeze in it. so upside down stuck into the ground it becomes a Popsicle for them to lick to death on a hot day,if you are cooking for 1 dog , about 50 to 60 lbs ,1/2 tsp of children's liquid vitamins a day, and a 1 tsp of bone meal powder, is fine for nessasary dogs needs, or you can grind up egg shells too.I am trying to remember 3 egg shells-I think. for me it was easier to just add powdered bone meal, or a calcium pill ground up . a cup or 1 and a 1/2 cups of food per meal, 2 x a day, is all a dog needs. when there are no fillers in teh dry kibble. in that kind of poor dry kibble food--they need to eat more to get what thye really need. if you were to feed something like teh Fromm dry kibble..it may sound expensive to buy -- but when you realize that a 50lb dog thrives on 1/2 cup 2 x a day!!!! I have fed that amount for all my dogs, up to 87 lbs, and they are never skinny! and often do not need to have more than one BM a day,!!! there is no filler --no waste!!! a 30 lb bag of FROMM IS ABOUT $47.00 AND THAT 30 LB BAG OF FOOD WILL LAST 1 DOG FOR 4 MONTHS!!! that works out to be about $10.00 a month for food,, now that is not expensive, if you think about it.
    and I will bet that you spend more than that on some of the other brands to get them full.!!! a dog will eat more than the 1/2 cup a day. but they will just poop it out in the yard, but if yo add the odd veggies and fruit, you will find they thrive on that amount!
    sorry about this being so long, but I try to explain things enough to have you understand it. I research pet foods, and decipher what the labels are actually saying, by the words they are using. marketing/merchandising was something that I took in college. and realize the smoke and mirrors they are using on the public, I would rather trust any car salesman than the pet foods companies!! that are owned by the big 4 to 5 companies that have taken over the trade.
    think about the words of the year!! each tear it is something different!!! back in the after recall days, the word they used was natural- then holistic-- then organic- now this year the word is REAL !!!! what do they think the food was made of last year ??? fake??? do you see what I mean? and what they are trying to do these days is break up the amount of salt or sodium into 3 or 4 parts in the listing so that you don't realize how much is really in the food,, that is what keeps the dog eating it-- just like potato chips to humans!!! smoke and mirrors, that is what is going on in marketing .
    in summery -- if you want to feed raw, use caution! and weigh the risk. a good food, a clean dog. ((and baby shampoo is just fine for dog shampoo, ((the PH balance is the same as dogs shampoo)) and a lot cheaper!!! and can be bathed with it almost daily!!!
    If you have a question regarding dog food, or behavior! call or e-mail me anytime.
    Linda Parks
    360-681-5089
    bullysmum@gmail.com

  11. #23
    Bulldog Vet in Training anatess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindathedogsmaid View Post
    Please forgive me for adding some things-- But I need t clarify-- some issues regarding meat used in foods, and just what the USDA does and is -- the usda simply inspects that the protein is inspected at time of slaughter,to comply with regulations.!! that is at slaughter---not after ----

    What makes Fromm better is their claim of using only meats that are USDA-inspected.
    on the surface Kirkland and Fromm may LOOK the same. they are both USDA inspected at slaughter, the the REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE IS ---KIRKLAND PROTEIN COMES from a RENDERING PLANT!!!! (THAT IS WHAT IS LEFT OVER FROM HUMAN CONSUMPTION! !!!!!!

    WHILE THE FROMM--COMES STRAIGHT FROM THE---- BUTCHER--AND IS -MUSCLE MEAT((MEANING ,PRIME CUTS OF MEAT,THE ROASTS STEAKS,)) STRAIGHT FROM THE BUTCHER !!!! DAILY ,

    IF A MEAT ISN'T MUSCLE MEAT, IT ISN'T PRIME CUT QUALITY!!!!
    ask your self where you would like your protein to come from.??????

    and Fromm, and great 4 life are the only 2 brands that include,the pre and pro biotics,(guaranteed in writing,---in the guaranteed---- analysis,)))on the bag-check it out, while other brands may state they have the pre and pro biotics in the food--they will not guarantee it in writing within the guaranteed analysis,in writing, that would be legally binding by law to have any given amount in the food!!!! Fromm does-and says how much!!! check it out.

    all other brands of foods need additives like pre and pro biotics !!! and that includes the old stand by Natures variety !! they have not up graded the food lately!!!

    I am just saying --there is a lot more to judging food than what appears on the labels,
    join the truth about pet foods, and see. $17.95 per year. totally unbiased. but still
    but at not quite good enough for Bulldogs. least you will find out the truth about package labels
    Linda, I appreciate your passion, it is truly admirable. But, you are on the "extremist" side of things - which is not bad, it's better to be extremely careful - but there is always room for good compromise.

    Let me just point out several proven facts on the side of compromise:

    1.) A dog is different than a human. A dog has a different digestive system than a human. A dog has a different dietary requirement than a human. A dog has different tolerance levels than humans. Human-grade food is great for dogs, but so is quality dog-grade food. This is actually better presented from the cat-lover's point of view (they're just as passionate about cat food as dog lovers are with their dog food) - cat food is commercialized as "using quality human-grade meat" which is cool, but a cat's natural prey is the rat. They're going to be healthier eating an entire rat than human-grade meat as the rat contains the proper balance of bone/organs/protein that a cat requires. If you give them the opportunity to chase after a live rat, it's even healthier not just for their nutrition but also for their psyche. But you won't find the average cat lover feed their cats a rat due to their anthropomorphic tendency - not even rat-flavored cat-chow.

    2.) Not all rendering plants are created equal. The word rendering got a bad rap in recent history due to the non-discriminatory meat inclusions in the rendering plants that serviced pet food. Not all rendering plants are non-discriminatory and not all rendered products are unfit for human consumption. For example - if you were eating McDonald's French Fries before 1990, you were eating potatoes cooked using rendered fat. It only changed after 1990 because McDonald's decided to switch from animal-based oil to vegetable oil to promote a low-cholesterol image. But yes, a majority of rendering plants include questionable meats like sick animals, road kill, or euthanized animals from kill shelters (lots of them come from dogs and horses).

    3.) If there's a "meal" in the ingredients - you got a rendered product in your dog food. Yes, that includes Fromm that contains duck/chicken/name-meat-here meal. If you are comparing dog-nutritional-requirements in a meat source - the meal form of any meat will always be a better indicator of the meat content than the non-meal form of the meat. For example - if your dog food's first ingredient is duck, it doesn't really mean you got a lot of duck in that dog food (note: ingredients are listed according to the amount of of the ingredient present in the bag by weight before processing). Why? Because, plain duck has a lot of water content in proportion to the meat which evaporates during processing. Now, if you see duck meal instead (rendered duck product), you basically got the meat in powdered form - pure protein, no water. So, an ounce of duck versus an ounce of duck meal - the duck meal contains more meat than just the plain duck. What about the quality? If your talking about human-grade, then yes, duck is human-edible, duck meal isn't (well, unless you're a character in Star Wars who eats protein pellets for space travel). But when you're looking at a piece of raw meat for dog food, there is no difference between the prime cuts (softer, easier to chew good for humans because they have weaker teeth) and the non-prime cuts (tougher, requires lots of ripping to chew, no problem for a dog's scissor-like sharp teeth).

    So, how do you know if your pet food comes from the bad rendering plants or the good rendering plants? Labels. Yep. Lots of FDA requirements cover labelling so it's a good gauge if you know what you're looking for.

    The #1 indicator you got a bad rendered meat is if you see the word "by-product" in the label. By-product is the non-meat portion of a carcass (tongue, brain, stomach, intestines, etc.). You can only call it a "meal" if it doesn't contain meat by-products, otherwise, you get to call it by-product.

    Another indicator you got a bad rendered meat is if the meat source is not specified. For example - "poultry meal". That may include road kill or those birds that mysteriously fell from the sky in Arkansas. "Animal meal" or "meat meal" is even worse - that could include euthanized dogs and cats from kill shelters including the barbiturates that they were injected with to kill them.

    Anyway, Kirtland is a good quality food - not the best but definitely much much better than Science Diet - and a cheaper alternative if you have a Costco card.
    Last edited by anatess; 01-04-2012 at 12:55 PM.

    I got Bullied and loving it!
    Bella "Bullie" Rose, adopted on July 24, 2011

  12. #24
    Bulldog Vet in Training anatess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overloaded with food info... Have to choose raw or high end commmercial...

    Quote Originally Posted by luseaann View Post
    It is the information in threads like this that make me fear feeding commercial dog food. It never occurred to me to wonder what meat and meat by-products actually mean. I started a modified raw diet for my bullies. I was cooking for the sometimes, but realize that uncooked meat is more nutritious. Some raw feeders say that dogs are strictly carnivores and don't need vegetables and grains, but my dogs love those things. They are not in love with chicken (which is cheap) so I sear the outsides a bit to entice them. I don't think it lessens the integrity of the bones any. I also cook them whole grains, like brown rice, barley, lentils and give them raw or frozen vegetables like peas and carrots and spinach.

    I've only just started so I haven't been able to source cheap meat yet. I checked yahoo groups and there is nothing in my area as far as co-ops go. I haven't contacted any butchers as yet, but I've been able to find some good deals in regular grocery stores. The consensus seems to be to try to stay below $1/lb in cost which is less than premium canned food costs. Whenever I find meat marked down, I buy it, divide it up into daily meals, and freeze. I also leave kibble out in case I don't get the amount of food right and they are hungry. My bullies have never overeaten. They just walk away when they are full.

    I have noticed that they are happy, enjoy eating, including crunching bones (scary), and have healthier fur coats. Sorry this is so long, but I am quite, quite interested in the topic.
    Hi Luseaann, just wanting to throw some ideas. I don't feed raw so I haven't really tried any of these. I just heard these from friends who do it.

    1.) See if you have a Restaurant Depot close to you. And if so, then see if you can find a friend/acquaintance/church that can sponsor a membership for you. If this is possible for you, they have meat on sale a lot of times in there. Just last month, I was able to purchase whole chicken - quartered, giblets included - for 59 cents a pound. No, I don't feed raw to my dogs (I want to, just can't get the logistics to work out) but we served lots of chicken on our Christmas/New Year parties. When I was there, they also had half of an entire lamb for 89 cents a pound.

    2.) If you're close to hunting grounds or have a friend who hunts, you can find hunters that come out of the jungle with more meat than they intended and would be willing to give you a portion of their game for free (it's illegal to sell game in some states).

    3.) Optionally, you can also grow a small colony of rabbits if it's not illegal in your area and you're not squeamish about slaughtering meat.

    Just some ideas...

    I got Bullied and loving it!
    Bella "Bullie" Rose, adopted on July 24, 2011

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