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Thread: Raw Frozen Diets

  1. #13
    Bulldog Vet in Training anatess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    My understanding is that a lot of raw feeders don't use the patties as it defeats part of the purpose of the Raw Diet. The Raw Diet is trying to bring the dog back to its natural diet before the commercialization of dog food. Grinding meat and bone into patties removes some of the benefits of feeding raw as @Chad M Lane demonstrated above. So, basically, most, if not all, raw feeders made the conscious decision to expend the extra effort to feed the dog its natural diet for the dog's health that breaking down the diet into ground up patties to make it easier (it's definitely not cheaper) is not necessary, if not relatively detrimental.

    Note: I haven't tried raw feeding in the US. All our dogs were raw fed when I lived in the Philippines but the culture there is very different. Dogs eat meat left over from the family freezer. Most Filipinos don't buy their meat in prepackaged styrofoam containers. We buy our meat from the wet market where an entire cow/pig/goat/chicken/fish is hanging off pegs or piled on the table and you pick your meat by body part - get me a cow leg please... - and they lop off the entire leg from the hanging cow. So, my mother would bring home a quarter cow, for example, take out the meat she plans to cook for the family, takes the marrows for soup, then leaves the rest for the dogs. As I recall, the dogs eat most of the organs and tendons and a lot of the bones. It is, therefore, completely not following the Prey Model balance.

    I got Bullied and loving it!
    Bella "Bullie" Rose, adopted on July 24, 2011

  2. #14
    Drool Catcher Poppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    If it works for you I say go for it. The problem most raw feeders find with frozen patties is that you don't know how much of what is in it. Most raw feeders follow the 80% protein/10%bone/10%offal model, so, with the patties, it is often not listed. Also there's the matter of bones - their teeth/breath don't get the benefits from chewing raw bones. I guess you could bypass this by giving recreational bones. I have frozen patties for travel and when I'm running short on meat - it's from a local company called Urban Carnivore and the label just says "ground whole chicken carcass" etc.

    On the comment about raw meat for human consumption.. what do you think goes into these raw frozen diets if not raw meat??

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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    i am watching this thread also as ive just discovered that my pet food store has always had nvi raw but now ive seen primal there to. i am also interested in feeding sarah raw but cannot prepare it myself as i have time issues. also can they eat kibble and raw. i dont stay here all the time and my bf would be feeding her to and im not sure he would remember to thaw her food and feed it to her and then wash he bowl and his hands. i know simple enough but i dont know if he would do it. any help would be appreciated. can you do like kibble in the am and primal raw in pm. its a matter of im not here all the time really. and ive heard of things like cannon butt and such. will this kind of raw do that.

  4. #16
    Drool Catcher Poppy's Avatar
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    Don't know anything about the brand but yes some do half kibble half raw without any problems. Others get stomach problems, and it's hard to tell what is causing it - the raw or the combination feeding. You could try alternating a full day of kibble and a full day of raw. People say that it's because they digest at different rates - raw is digested faster whereas kibble sits in the belly.

  5. #17
    Pooper scooper
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    We tried switching to the Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Frozen patties. It didn't go well. We started the switch slowly and we were mixing kibble and raw in the same meal. I know that can cause problems. However, I think and my vet thinks as well that the puppies picked up salmonella from the raw diet. Looking at their symptoms and they both had them, it fit the best description. Lily started with the diarrhea 10 days in. We thought they were doing great, they LOVED the food. 3 days of uncontrollable diarrhea and we were at the vets for $500 worth of tests to make sure she hadn't picked up something else or eaten a sock and blocked her gut. As soon as we started getting her under control with a bland diet, Humphrey started with the uncontrollable diarrhea.

    I thought the patties were the answer to my time constraints. I thought raw would fix our allergy woes. After reading all the pro comments on here about raw feeding and several other articles, I thought I knew enough to make a good decision. After she started getting sick, I googled "downsides of raw dog feeding diet" and read a lot of the negatives that I hadn't seen.

    I respect your opinions and I know my dogs looked better just in the short 11 days they were on the diet, but I won't risk getting salmonella for them or the humans that take care of them again. Lily had to be put on IV fluids the day before Christmas Eve for 4 hours. She might not have made it through the weekend if she hadn't. I know some diarrhea is expected with a food change, but this was not that unfirm poo...it was awful.

    So, we're weaning back from the bland diet to kibble and we'll eventually switch to Fromm from Blue Buffalo which is currently what we're on. Please be careful with your food prep and handling. I think that's where we went wrong. I would wrap the patty in plastic wrap in the fridge while it thawed. I didn't use new plastic wrap every day. I also didn't get to wash their dog bowls every day. That may be where our raw feeding went wrong. Good luck!

    Priscilla
    owned by Lily & Humphrey, bulldogs extraordinaire!

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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    oh my im sorry you had so much trouble. but yes you maybe right with the handling. ive been doing a bit of reading and i think you are supposed to put the patties in an airtight container while thawing and yes washing the bowls everytime you feed is essential as well as your hands and anything else it touched. gosh i wish you well in your kibble and there is nothing wrong with the kibble. i feed it as do many others. and ty for posting as someone else reading this can learn from you and your experience which is why we are here.

  7. #19
    Dog Park Attendant Become a 4 Paw Member Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    You stated: "My puppies picked up Salmonella from the raw diet". Did you contact NATURE'S VARIETY about this ? My bully, Maximus, has been on this Raw diet for over 2-months. He never had an onset of diarrhea. If anything, his stool became smaller and more compact and certainly alot "less messy". So I am a little concerned
    when you say that your puppies picked up Salmonella from this food. Especially since Nature's Variety states they have such strong measures in place in their manufacturing facilities to insure that there is no risk of Salmonella in their raw diets.
    What are the ages of the "puppies" that you fed this diet to ? You never mentioned it in your reply.

  8. #20
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    Salmonella has been talked about numerous times on the Yahoo rawfeeding group. It is everywhere and it is a fear tactic from the pet food industry. Vets who do not know about rawfeeding can't advise you confidently on what it's about, similar to vets who believe that Science Diet kibble will cure everything. And, of course, any raw meat should be handled carefully for everyone's safety and cleanliness should be a priority.

    The diarrhea is most likely caused by something else. I remember when Stig first started on raw, he had very loose stools for a couple of, if not a few, days. It was my fault because we didn't give him enough bone. It is highly recommended that dogs who first start on the diet have a high percentage of bone content in their food. I believe that the frozen raw only has 20% bone, Stig had to start with at least 40%. As the days progress, bone should only be 10% of the raw diet.

    Again. Please read the archives on the Yahoo feeding group about the myths of rawfeeding. Googling what you fear will certainly result in self-fulfilling prophecies.

    Here's a great article of popular myths:

    http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
    Last edited by savemejeebus; 03-02-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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  9. #21
    Bulldog Vet in Training karenben's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    i have to say that annie has never had the runs since starting raw even when i introduced organs ,i bought some frozen rabbit blocks from the pet store and failed to read the label and my what a load of rubbish was in it,only 10% rabbit!!!!!,the butcher who delivers to my works is bringing me fresh rabbit off the farm next week as its getting harder to get here i live,i have never had a problem with any germs whilst feeding raw but lots of runs and sloppy poop when kibble feeding ,and lets face it there are germs everywhere ,as long as you clean properly and wash the bowls in scolding hot water after every feed then you should not have a problem,i only ever buy meat fit for human consumption ,i tried some pet mince it was frozen and after defrosting it was gipping so binned the lot!!,karen

  10. #22
    Dog Park Attendant Become a 4 Paw Member Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    I don't know, I'm now having "suspicions" regarding RAW FROZEN DIETS. I don't know what happened with Maximus all of a sudden ...... he has been doing so well.
    Than Whooosh, he started having diarrhea, and his stool went back to what it was before I started him on the Raw frozen diet, and it is a mess, and his "gas" is so bad it is permeating my entire house ......

    But than again................it could be because he has not has his Probiotics in 3-weeks and his gut is full of bacteria ........

    Ugh!

  11. #23
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    I don't know, I'm now having "suspicions" regarding RAW FROZEN DIETS. I don't know what happened with Maximus all of a sudden ...... he has been doing so well.
    Than Whooosh, he started having diarrhea, and his stool went back to what it was before I started him on the Raw frozen diet, and it is a mess, and his "gas" is so bad it is permeating my entire house ......

    But than again................it could be because he has not has his Probiotics in 3-weeks and his gut is full of bacteria ........

    Ugh!
    I can't really help much with pre-packaged raw since I've never used them. . Would you be able to speak with the owner of the store you get them from? If they're not helpful, try going to a smaller privately owned store who sells pre-made raw, they usually more enthusiastic to help out customers.

    All I know that when Stig first started, we gave him ground chicken with bone since that was what the raw store owner said to do first to transition him smoothly. And she was so wrong! Stig has loose stools, not diarrhea, but really liquidy stools throughout the day for at least 3 days. Finally, I got a hold of his daycare owner who initially suggested raw to us, and she said to start with a chicken back, to increase the bone content. It instantly worked. His next set of stools were firm.

    As for the probiotics, it may help. Stig did get his share of green tripe, which is high in probiotics, for the first couple of months. The one that their holistic vet recommended is the one called HMF Forte Probiotics by Genestra, 2 capsules daily. It's human grade, which is an extra bonus.

    But I would ask a small pet food boutique owner first and see what they suggest seeing you prefer the pre-packaged types.
    "I am normally not a praying man, but if you really are up there, please save me Superman!'' - Homer J. Simpson

  12. #24
    Cooper11
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    Default Re: Raw Frozen Diets

    I have been very curious about the raw feeding also. I had NEVER heard of such a thing until I came on this site and to tell you the truth I was kinda grossed out by the thought of the whole thing. I guess I new people were saying raw but I didn't actually think it was raw raw lol.....but then @Poppy I think it was yo who posted the pic of your dog before and after and the tears stains were gone. It amazed me how much healthy and better looking your dog looked. What are the benefits of raw feeding. obviously tear stains and better for them??? Does it help with the shedding, gas, allergies, ect....?????

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