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Thread: Starting to cook my own food

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    Pooper scooper Kt126126's Avatar
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    Default Starting to cook my own food

    Hi Everyone,

    A few people on the site suggested I start making my own dog food. Abby has very bad allergies and maybe this will reduce the medication or itching (fingers crossed )!!
    As of last night I started to wean her off the dog food (blue buffalo-grain free) and onto homemade. She seemed to really enjoy it. I noticed right away it's taking her longer to eat. This is a good thing because Abby always ate way to fast and would choke on her food.

    I have two questions for everyone:

    1. I want to find out if I should add anything to her food? Right now I made a mixture of brown rice (4 cups dry), peas and carrots (2 large frozen bags), and canned salmon (3 large cans). I also give her either a whole apple or banana for snack. Keep in my she has allergies so I shouldn't feed her any grains.

    2. Do I give her the same portion I did with the dry food? I feed her a cup in the morning and one at night with a snack either later that night or in the afternoon.

    Thanks for all your help!
    Katie


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    Bulldog Vet in Training anatess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    In my opinion, the diet has too little meat in it. Not an ideal situation for a dog, especially an allergy-prone dog. Remember, dogs have a harder time processing plant-based proteins versus animal-based proteins. They also can't process carbs as efficiently. Plants is better as a small percentage of the diet - under 40% if possible. 0% is just fine.

    To determine how much food to offer... If you're feeding lots of plant matter, you can go by total calories to match what your dog has been eating with the kibble then adjust up or down depending on the effect on the dog (if he's getting skinny, increase the food and vice versa). If you are feeding minimal plant matter, you can go by the weight of the meal. Start with 2%-3% of his body weight daily and adjust up or down accordingly.

    My allergy-prone dogs are on a Prey-Model Raw diet. They get plant-based food only for occasional treats.

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    I'm going to assume that by large cans of salmon you mean the 14.75 oz can? I'm also assuming you are making 4 days of food. If so then in food alone you are giving her 395 calories and 47 grams of protein per meal. I plugged your recipe into nutritiondata.com and this is what she is getting per cup

    -capture-jpg

    I think the calories are a little low and the protein is a little high and the sodium is very high. Maybe cut back to 2 large cans of salmon instead of 3. Is there a reason you are giving her salmon as opposed to ground beef, turkey or another type of fish?

    I switched the salmon out for frozen whitefish fillets and the recipe looks much healthier to me. The full dietary analysis is here.. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2811231/2

    -capture-jpg

    Still low on calories but you can easily boost that with a full fat yogurt topper or some peanut butter or increasing the amount she gets per meal to 1.5 cups. I would definitely add a daily multivitamin to this diet.

    To answer your questions, yes... you feed her the same amount in home cooked as you would in kibble. There is no need to do a slow switch either. You can immediately dump the bag and go full on homemade. A couple of other suggestions (if you don't mind). Overcooking the rice makes it more digestible and blanch then mash the peas and carrots a little. This will start breaking down the cellulose layer of the vegetables so she gets the maximum benefit from them.
    Last edited by Twice; 03-13-2013 at 08:52 AM.

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    Bulldog Vet in Training anatess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by Twice View Post
    I'm going to assume that by large cans of salmon you mean the 14.75 oz can? I'm also assuming you are making 4 days of food. If so then in food alone you are giving her 395 calories and 47 grams of protein per meal. I plugged your recipe into nutritiondata.com and this is what she is getting per cup

    -capture-jpg

    I think the calories are a little low and the protein is a little high and the sodium is very high. Maybe cut back to 2 large cans of salmon instead of 3. Is there a reason you are giving her salmon as opposed to ground beef, turkey or another type of fish?

    I switched the salmon out for frozen whitefish fillets and the recipe looks much healthier to me. The full dietary analysis is here.. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2811231/2

    -capture-jpg

    Still low on calories but you can easily boost that with a full fat yogurt topper or some peanut butter or increasing the amount she gets per meal to 1.5 cups. I would definitely add a daily multivitamin to this diet.

    To answer your questions, yes... you feed her the same amount in home cooked as you would in kibble. There is no need to do a slow switch either. You can immediately dump the bag and go full on homemade. A couple of other suggestions (if you don't mind). Overcooking the rice makes it more digestible and blanch then mash the peas and carrots a little. This will start breaking down the cellulose layer of the vegetables so she gets the maximum benefit from them.
    High protein is VERY GOOD if the protein comes from good quality animal and not plant. The only time you want low protein is if the dog has health problems that require a low protein diet such as a problem with his kidneys. And a high plant matter diet (proteins coming mostly from plants) is not good.

    High carbs is bad (you lower the protein percentage, you have to increase the carbs) as the dog, unlike humans, doesn't have enough enzymes to break it down so most of that work has to be done by the pancreas. Lowering the salmon to replace with plants is not a good idea. Lowering the canned salmon to replace with fresh salmon or turkey/beef/pork/etc. is ok.

    High sodium is, of course, bad.

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by anatess View Post
    High protein is VERY GOOD if the protein comes from good quality animal and not plant. The only time you want low protein is if the dog has health problems that require a low protein diet such as a problem with his kidneys. And a high plant matter diet (proteins coming mostly from plants) is not good.
    I don't remember saying anything about the protein other than it was a little high. I didn't even suggest lowering that level. I only suggested lowering the amount of Salmon or switching it out completely because of the sodium. That said, having a high protein diet also requires a delicate balance of calcium to phosphorous which raw feeders don't have to concern themselves with. Home cooked meals don't include the bone that is fed in the raw diet so this balance becomes extremely important for proper bone, muscle and nerve health.


    Kidney diets don't require low protein. That has been debunked by many veterinarians and nutrition experts. Instead we shoot for high quality protein.

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by Twice View Post
    I'm going to assume that by large cans of salmon you mean the 14.75 oz can? I'm also assuming you are making 4 days of food. If so then in food alone you are giving her 395 calories and 47 grams of protein per meal. I plugged your recipe into nutritiondata.com and this is what she is getting per cup

    -capture-jpg

    I think the calories are a little low and the protein is a little high and the sodium is very high. Maybe cut back to 2 large cans of salmon instead of 3. Is there a reason you are giving her salmon as opposed to ground beef, turkey or another type of fish?

    I switched the salmon out for frozen whitefish fillets and the recipe looks much healthier to me. The full dietary analysis is here.. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2811231/2

    -capture-jpg

    Still low on calories but you can easily boost that with a full fat yogurt topper or some peanut butter or increasing the amount she gets per meal to 1.5 cups. I would definitely add a daily multivitamin to this diet.

    To answer your questions, yes... you feed her the same amount in home cooked as you would in kibble. There is no need to do a slow switch either. You can immediately dump the bag and go full on homemade. A couple of other suggestions (if you don't mind). Overcooking the rice makes it more digestible and blanch then mash the peas and carrots a little. This will start breaking down the cellulose layer of the vegetables so she gets the maximum benefit from them.
    i agree with what she said

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by Twice View Post
    I don't remember saying anything about the protein other than it was a little high. I didn't even suggest lowering that level. I only suggested lowering the amount of Salmon or switching it out completely because of the sodium. That said, having a high protein diet also requires a delicate balance of calcium to phosphorous which raw feeders don't have to concern themselves with. Home cooked meals don't include the bone that is fed in the raw diet so this balance becomes extremely important for proper bone, muscle and nerve health.


    Kidney diets don't require low protein. That has been debunked by many veterinarians and nutrition experts. Instead we shoot for high quality protein.
    Twice, if your dog is having uremia, your vet will need to balance his protein intake with his kidney function. If the high quality protein overloads the kidney to cause a failure in its function, it will be lowered. Kidney failure is one of the common dog health problems that could cause a different protein requirement as treatment for kidney failure is completely individual to each dog.

    Raw feeders just like any other method would still need to concern themselves with Calcium and Phosphorus ratios.

    But a dog food should still have higher meat content than plant matter regardless because 47% protein coming mostly from peas is not too good.
    Last edited by anatess; 03-13-2013 at 03:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by anatess View Post
    Twice, if your dog is having uremia, your vet will need to balance his protein intake with his kidney function. If the high quality protein overloads the kidney to cause a failure in its function, it will be lowered. Kidney failure is one of the common dog health problems that could cause a different protein requirement as treatment for kidney failure is completely individual to each dog.

    Raw feeders just like any other method would still need to concern themselves with Calcium and Phosphorus ratios.

    But a dog food should still have higher meat content than plant matter regardless because 47% protein coming mostly from peas is not too good.


    Uremia is an end stage symptom of kidney failure and I think I have a pretty good grasp on what kidney failure is and how it is or is not treated. It's the phosphorous that causes further damage to the kidneys, not protein.
    Last edited by Twice; 03-13-2013 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by anatess View Post
    Twice, if your dog is having uremia, your vet will need to balance his protein intake with his kidney function. If the high quality protein overloads the kidney to cause a failure in its function, it will be lowered. Kidney failure is one of the common dog health problems that could cause a different protein requirement as treatment for kidney failure is completely individual to each dog.

    Raw feeders just like any other method would still need to concern themselves with Calcium and Phosphorus ratios.

    But a dog food should still have higher meat content than plant matter regardless because 47% protein coming mostly from peas is not too good.
    In case you didn't know dear twice just lost her abby to kidney failure a few months ago n she gave her more of a life than she would have had otherwise because of all her research n just doing it day in and day out so she really does understand what she is talking about here . Just FYI for you n anyone else.

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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    @anatess As much as my head tells me to walk away from this I just cant. Not without saying something.

    You feel strongly about feeding raw and that's great for you. The truth is that there is no ONE right way to feed our animals. We have choices, many choices. I'm not going to debate raw v homemade v store bought with you or anyone else and especially not here in a forum designed for people who choose to home cook.

    The question asked was how much to feed and if the menu was ok. @Kt126126 has determined that her Abby is allergic to most things and wants to try something out of her own kitchen. We should be applauding that effort. Not everyone has to financial means or the stomach to feed raw and not everyone believes that it is the right thing to do.

    I honestly don't know where you got the information that you are quoting me from but that is neither here nor there. The question was was the meal appropriate. As someone who has cooked for her own dogs for almost 2 years and someone who is certified to create such menus, I offered my advice. Had I known it was going to start a debate I would have kept my fingers in my pockets.

    Store bought dry food. Store bought dehydrated food. Home cooked food. Raw food. There is no one right answer. What works for some does not work for all. We should be supporting each others choices and not try to convince them that the choice they've made is wrong.
    Last edited by Twice; 03-13-2013 at 07:32 PM.

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    Default

    I agree. I have been home cooking for I guess a year now and very happy with the results. To each his own on how they choose to improve their dog food dilemma. Mine was purely experimental since there was not as much info on it.

    Great website too on getting the nutritional data. Can you plug mine in? I cook about estimated 2 cups raw beans (mixed lentils), which yields probably 6 c cooked. 5lb raw hamburger, 1 cup rice, coos cous, pasta, potatoes or something, and about 4 cups frozen veg, usually Normandy (broc, cauliflower, carrots) or whatever else I have in the fridge.

    I give a Nuvet along with this diet every other day.


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    Default Re: Starting to cook my own food

    Quote Originally Posted by desertskybulldogs View Post

    Great website too on getting the nutritional data. Can you plug mine in?

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    I did it using rice as your carb source and I assumed twice a day feeding for 6 days? 75% lean ground beef?

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2812410/2 I think the calories are high, might want to cut back on the lentils a little

    I love http://nutritiondata.self.com/. Creating an account is free and the site doesn't try to promote any products so I'm hoping it's ok to post the link? If the food you are trying to enter isn't already in the database it's easy to add it yourself.

    Every single thing that Abby ever ate after her diagnosis was plugged into a menu there and her meals were adjusted based on her most recent test results. I even entered any store bought treats for her since phosphorous isn't something that is commonly listed in the analysis on the package. Just a head up, for some ridiculous reason it only works with Firefox.

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