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Thread: training/pack order?

  1. #1
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    Default training/pack order?

    Ok for all the ones here who know how to deal with the trainign issues and stuff I am asking advice. Cutty is the alpha with him and Mugs and has always been. Now with Miila here I am not sure where she fits in exactly. The boys arent loving her just yet so how do I discipline them exactly? For example she wants to play and Cutty grumbles at her, do I bust her and have her leave him alone or I do bust him for being growly? She gets hyper and wants to hump on him and he wants no part of that so I bust her or do a fast squirt of water cuz that isnt good behavior anyhow but when she is just playing nice do I bust Cutty when Miila isnt being bad just bugging him? With food I am putting all their food down at the same time and making them all sit and wait for it so there is no order specifically which I think should be better but not sure either. I know there are rules and Cutty being the leader should go first but I also know he needs to know I lead them all so I am confused on how to treat this situation. I just want them to all be best friends and am afraid it may take some time.

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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Not particularly advice here but I thought I'd 'join' in the thread to seek advice too. Hope you don't mind @cali~jenn .

    The first is jealousy. Stig seeks attention whenever he thinks we're giving Punkin any. What should we do about it? Brush it off and give Stig some attention and hope that'll get better or should we not give Stig attention when he does that so we don't nurture these moments like how Cesar Milan puts it.

    The second is the food like what cali~jenn is asking. Punkin acts more submissive than Stig. Should we give Stig food first seeing he's acting as Alpha even though he's 2.5 years younger?
    Last edited by savemejeebus; 09-24-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    It will take time for them to figure the pecking order out for themselves, but when one growls at another always stop that immediately. The food thing is good by feeding them together, just be patient.
    Have a Great Bully Day.
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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    I'll give it a go ,maybe something here may help ya.
    Basically, for the time being as you are dealing with a new pup added into a "pack" with two dogs just allow them to establish their own order.
    You say you have two older dogs and added a pup I take it?
    The grumbling is just an adult dogs way of communicating with a pup to give it some space and not to be a bother. Its their way of disciplining in a way. Pups have a bit of a 'Free Ticket" with adults til they reach a certain point in their Puppyhood where adult dogs will tolerate quite a bit from them To A POINT then they will discipline the pup as needed. You know that Puppy Breath Smell most of us like to smell in a puppy? Well that is a indication to adult dogs that this pup is still in it Learning/Discipline Stage and they really won't go out of their way to hurt it unless you have a real dominant or aggressive type dog then if that's the case it would be best to remove the pup til its older.
    The pup humping the other dog??? That's natural, pups do that quite a bit when they are still with their litter-mates , they establish their own hierarchy and its kind of instinctual. As they grow up it happens less and less and should stop completely UNLESS of course you have a Dominant dog that is trying to establish its dominance. Even female dogs will do it . For example. Pepper, my Bully is an dominant female. We have a new pup for my daughter. Pepper gave the pup quite a bit of leeway when it was 8 weeks old and up til the past week now that its 15 weeks old. She let it chew her ears, bite,nip her and even let it hump her. She when she got tired of it would throw the pup on its back and stand over it showing it to mind its place. An older dog standing over a pup or other dog is showing dominance.More and more though lately she is showing less and less tolerance of the pups PUPPYISH behavior and she does nip it back and is rough in her shows of dominance. I know they have to set their own boundaries and its something I do not interfere with But I do make sure I am right there when they play together so if it gets too far out of hand I can referee. When she has finally had enough I know she will let him know in no uncertain terms or he will just outgrow it.
    So for the time being just maybe allow the pup to be a pup and the older ones to establish their order . Trying to force the pup into a role now and making the others accept it and 'Play Nice" can get really frustrating and wear you out. Don't force anything but just be there to step in or referee for now

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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Quote Originally Posted by savemejeebus View Post
    Not particularly advice here but I thought I'd 'join' in the thread to seek advice too. Hope you don't mind @cali~jenn .

    The first is jealousy. Stig seeks attention whenever he thinks we're giving Punkin any. What should we do about it? Brush it off and give Stig some attention and hope that'll get better or should we not give Stig attention when he does that so we don't nurture these moments like how Cesar Milan puts it.

    The second is the food like what cali~jenn is asking. Punkin acts more submissive than Stig. Should we give Stig food first seeing he's acting as Alpha even though he's 2.5 years younger?
    Its best not to play into Attention Seeking Behavior. Don't acknowledge his behavior, ignore it. If you acknowledge that behavior or any bad behavior you end up re-inforcing it because He got a response even if it is you getting mad or upset or pushing him away OR most likely Giving In to it right ???????
    An idea,,,,,, get a few toys, like a tug rope and such that you will make YOUR TOYS, that neither dog can own or make theirs. Then what you do is get on the floor and get in the middle and play with them. They both get attention at the same time !!

    As for the food issue ,yeah it may be best to feed as you say. Feed the food aggressive dog first.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Quote Originally Posted by savemejeebus View Post
    Not particularly advice here but I thought I'd 'join' in the thread to seek advice too. Hope you don't mind @cali~jenn .

    The first is jealousy. Stig seeks attention whenever he thinks we're giving Punkin any. What should we do about it? Brush it off and give Stig some attention and hope that'll get better or should we not give Stig attention when he does that so we don't nurture these moments like how Cesar Milan puts it. The second is the food like what cali~jenn is asking. Punkin acts more submissive than Stig. Should we give Stig food first seeing he's acting as Alpha even though he's 2.5 years younger?
    Never would I mind. We are both in the same boat so any replies to either of us will help. Thanks for your input. Hopefully they settle in on their own without my input so much. Hard to know what is right to do with them.

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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    I am kind of with @Victor Y on this one. They do have to establish their own order and interference is not needed and just confuses things. Like he pointed out, I would referee them for a while to make sure that it doesn't get out of hand and no one hurts the other in any way. Some grumbling is ok, attacking is not. I usually draw the line at teeth. If their teeth are involved, not in a playful way, I will step in and separate them. Mine figured everything out on their own fairly peacefully. Gypsy is the dominate one without a doubt. She started humping the other two right out of the box. She doesn't do it anymore now that their order has been established. I think as long as the dominate one knows YOU are the leader, then they will relax and let you take care of things . Also, if Stig is jealous, you need to make sure he knows that Punkin is under your protection. Meaning if he gets mean to Punkin after you have been giving attention, then you need to stand between them and make it clear that it won't be tolerated. Playing together is a great idea . I also often have one dog head on one leg and a different one on the other when we are lounging. lol

    disclaimer: I am in NO WAY a behaviorist or a trainer. This is just what I have learned by trial and error and reading. Take what you like and trash the rest!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Thank you I have done this for the most part today. Not sure if it is me leaving them alone or time or both more than likely but today was a much better day for everyone. Miila has tried to hump Cutty and I stop her each time (now that I think of it should I let her? Cutty gets pretty mad so I stop her usually) and Cutty I think understands that I am stopping her so he doesnt have to snap or anything to get her attention. He wont bite but still dont wanna push it, they are still dogs. Anyhow he hasnt gotten mad at her at all today which is a nice breath of fresh air. And she chased Mugsy around for about 15 minutes and he didnt look stressed or afraid like he was yesterday when she tried to chase him. He snapped at her yesterday but today nothing. So I left them alone and nobody got hurt. Seems like maybe they are learning to get along slowly but I know I will have a lot of work even if they love each other cuz well, she is a baby still. The water bottle is my friend right now.

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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Great topic. When Bo first came home, I became acutely aware of EVERYTHING they did; every noise, every growl, every grunt. I wanted to foster acceptable play behavior but it was hard figuring out what was play - and what wasn't play. On top of that, Bea is the noisiest player in the universe. As I sit here, she's on her back, laying parallel to Bo, biting his ears and growling and barking at him. She's clearly playing but sometimes....well, sometimes, it sounds like they're going to kill each other! I don't want to be the hyper-sensitive, meddling, worry wart, hover-crafting over their every move because I think that kind of interference in the long term would do more harm then good.

    Here's an article I read that helped me RELAX a bit about all of this. I'm still figuring it out myself. I still think they're going to kill each other sometimes -- by the sounds they make - but I've yet to see teeth and blood. Maybe this will help you as it helped me?

    Is Your Dog

    As for feeding, whomever is waiting patiently and giving me eye contact gets the food first here. I feed just like Cesar Millan does on his TV show.

    What an exciting time for you! Pretty soon, they'll all be an interdependent pack, all getting along with each other and you'll wonder where the time went!

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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicaroo1000 View Post
    That is an awesome article! It explains what I was trying to say perfectly. Thank you for sharing

  11. #11
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    Default Re: training/pack order?

    Yes VERY good article, thank you.

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