Bulldog Intelligence

hoegaandit

New member
Jul 7, 2011
115
6
New Zealand
[MENTION=2874]anatess[/MENTION] - this is a really interesting answer. I have read some of Dr Coren's books and thought they were quite good; not sure if I've read The Intelligence of Dogs, but as you note, this is measuring "working" or obedience intelligence, and obviously a breed which like a sheepdog is bred for obedience is going to score much higher on this sort of measurement than a bulldog which basically was initially bred to fight (hold onto a bull's nose without letting go, regardless of the difficulty).

In my opinion adaptive intelligence as you describe is the best test of intelligence. About fifty of Moscow's tens of thousands of dogs have actually learned to use the metro train system to travel from one place to the other - how amazing is that!

On an obviously much more basic level our boy has shown some signs of adaptive intelligence as when he has learned over the years to react in a better way towards other dogs, despite never having had siblings and being taken early from his mother. We have never tested him on adaptive intelligence though and I wonder if tests of this nature have been carried out on different breeds.
 

DinoRoyale

New member
Aug 4, 2011
109
4
Red Wing
Bulldog(s) Names
Angus
Stupid is as stupid does? Ha, seriously though, there is a fine line between "Will" and "Intelligence" I can understand what the doctor is trying to say and what the measure he is using to reach his conclusions but...... He is basing his decisions on whether the animal does the desired requests rather than if the animal understands the desired request. Angus can sit, lay down, high five, and come over when called but he chooses when to do it. If he doesn't do it, it doesn't mean he doesn't know how, it just means he's just not motivated enough.

This doctor should perform the same test on humans :)
 

anatess

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2011
1,758
398
Country
US
Bulldog(s) Names
Bullie (RIP) & Angus (RIP)
@anatess - this is a really interesting answer. I have read some of Dr Coren's books and thought they were quite good; not sure if I've read The Intelligence of Dogs, but as you note, this is measuring "working" or obedience intelligence, and obviously a breed which like a sheepdog is bred for obedience is going to score much higher on this sort of measurement than a bulldog which basically was initially bred to fight (hold onto a bull's nose without letting go, regardless of the difficulty).

In my opinion adaptive intelligence as you describe is the best test of intelligence. About fifty of Moscow's tens of thousands of dogs have actually learned to use the metro train system to travel from one place to the other - how amazing is that!

On an obviously much more basic level our boy has shown some signs of adaptive intelligence as when he has learned over the years to react in a better way towards other dogs, despite never having had siblings and being taken early from his mother. We have never tested him on adaptive intelligence though and I wonder if tests of this nature have been carried out on different breeds.

Yes, adaptive intelligence is basically like your particular dog's IQ level. But, this is not something you can attach to breed - it is truly breed independent. There is an IQ Test that you can perform on your dog to gauge his adaptive intelligence. See, the thing is, for it to be true adaptive intelligence and not working intelligence, the test needs to be something you haven't taught your dog how to do - something he works out himself. There are several activities to the IQ Test, I can't remember a lot of them - I did this long time ago - but I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. I remember one of them is to put a towel over your dog's head covering his face, and time how long it will take him to get the towel off. Another one is putting a bowl over a treat and time how long it will take them to get the treat from under the bowl... that kind of stuff.
 

anatess

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2011
1,758
398
Country
US
Bulldog(s) Names
Bullie (RIP) & Angus (RIP)
He is basing his decisions on whether the animal does the desired requests rather than if the animal understands the desired request.

That's exactly what he is basing the ranking on. That's why it is called "Working Intelligence". It is a measure of a dog's aptitude to do work. So, all things being equal with the amount of motivation the same for all breeds, a Border Collie has a higher working intelligence than a Bulldog. Doesn't mean the Bulldog doesn't understand anything, his understanding just doesn't amount to much use for work.

I like the book. I thought it was very insightful. He goes into detail on how, as a member of your family, an "intelligent" dog (working intelligence combined with adaptive intelligence) may not be suited for your household. Just like Einstein - because of his genius - is not suited for the standard classroom setting and would be disruptive.
 

DinoRoyale

New member
Aug 4, 2011
109
4
Red Wing
Bulldog(s) Names
Angus
I agree though that could be useful for people that are searching for breeds that fit their lifestyle. Different dogs have been breed to serve different purposes. It amazes me still that our bullies were once bred to take bulls head on, no fear, no remorse, just little tanks with only one goal in mind and now they are just wrinkly clowns that are just full of emotion and caring.
 

hoegaandit

New member
Jul 7, 2011
115
6
New Zealand
If you type "dog iq test" into bing or google, you will get a list of six tests of dog adaptive intelligence as created by Dr Coren, which might be quite fun (although these have been criticised by others as not properly thought through and favouring certain types of dogs eg food motivated or praise motivated dogs).
 

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Spinal Remains

New member
May 31, 2011
65
23
Nassau County, N.Y.
Bulldog(s) Names
Rufus Hambone (Hambonicus, Ruffie, Baby Bone, and 'Gargoyle Boy' - he sits on arm of couch
I don't see how this is possible to be honest. Rufus is pretty smart already. He was a breeze to potty train. He's 10 months now and he can fetch his toys by name. I say "get the froggie" and he brings his frog to me. "Get the rat" and he brings me the rat etc........... Thats shows extreme intellect to me. He is not only looking to please me, but he is listening and attributing objects to sounds. He knows thinga have different names attatched to them. I have had stupid dogs, and Rufus Hambone is not one of them. That is all I have to say on the subject.
 

Davidh

Head Pooper Scooper
Staff member
Mar 21, 2011
13,407
848
Katy, Texas
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
BeBe, Hazel, Lucy Lu, JLO, Hillary, Henri, & Katie
My bullies are smarter than the average honor student. :ROFL::tease:
 

GatorRay

I am in total control....I think
Feb 25, 2011
3,432
227
Louisville, KY
Bulldog(s) Names
Gator & Lucy Goosey, the Basset and Gigi (AKA Gypsy)
It only took BOTH Gypsy and Gator 5 minutes to learn new commands and they also anticipate commands at times.
 

kazzy220

..........
Jul 31, 2010
8,556
441
Grafton, OHIO
Country
England
Bulldog(s) Names
Maggie (My Angel Baby 5/31/2012). Daddy (2 years). Linus (1year). Bella (4 years)
I did this long time ago - but I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. I remember one of them is to put a towel over your dog's head covering his face, and time how long it will take him to get the towel off. Another one is putting a bowl over a treat and time how long it will take them to get the treat from under the bowl... that kind of stuff.

If I put a towel over Maggie's head and covered her head, within seconds you'd hear snoring. So does that mean she's extra dumb because she didn't take the towel off. Or that her doggie IQ is so high that she's thinking "Thank gawwwdddd ... relief from these imbeciles at last" ??? I guess we may never really know!!
 

hoegaandit

New member
Jul 7, 2011
115
6
New Zealand
Yeah I think that is a key problem with some of Dr Coren's tests of adaptive intelligence. Our naughty teenage son who has an ongoing friendly feud with the big boy sometimes puts a blanket over him, and the big boy generally makes no attempt to remove it or get from out from under it, I think because he is simply not bothered.

So one has to screen out motivation issues for a proper intelligence test. However that is not to state it could not be done, eg his tests as to how quickly a dog would get to food which had been eg shown to the dog to be hidden under a bowl would presumably work with most dogs, provided they were sufficiently hungry.
 

laurendoodler

Delilah's Personal Slave
Community Veteran
Feb 26, 2011
2,066
113
Iowa
Country
USA
Bulldog(s) Names
Delilah
If I put a towel over Delilah's head, she lays down and goes to sleep. I don't think that makes her dumb..lol.

I don't think Bulldogs are dumb at all, honestly. There's just different kinds of intelligence. Different breeds of dogs to different things. In all honestly, Delilah knows more than any other dog I've ever had. She's more in tune with me, more in sync with my emotions. She's more attached to me than any other dog I've ever owned. She can be somewhat difficult to train, but that makes it all the more worth it!

Also..there are more skateboarding bullies than any other breed. Dumb? I think not! :lmao:
 

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