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Thread: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

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    Bulldog Vet in Training KING OLLIE HOUSE of BULLDOG's Avatar
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    Default Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    https://youtu.be/oE-GgVSBwBI

    This is tricky. Every day, twice a day, our friends/neighbors walk Ollie, age 18months and their EBD, Bigly, age 1 year. Ollie and Bigly have played together since Bigs was 3 months old.

    Bigs is a wild child. His parents walk him with Ollie because he wonít walk for them when heís alone. They had an invisible fence installed and Bigs couldnít be trained for it because he refused to walk. Heís had the bulldog trainer/breeder a few times. She said heís the most stubborn bulldog sheís ever encountered. They had Ollie over when she was there. She told them that Ollie is the rare dog that can deal with Bigs because Ollie is so laid back and mellow.

    Ok
    Hereís the sticky wicket. When they come to my house to get Ollie for a walk, the dogs play/wrestle for 20 mins or so to try to get Bigs calmed down enough to walk. Ollie is neutered and was done at 5 months. Bigly is NOT neutered and is waiting for the magic 18months. When the dogs wrestle, they never get aggressive and really are like 2 Sumo wrestlers. Ollie is 6 months older and slightly bigger than Bigs. Ollie is built more athletically and Bigs is shorter and more stout. Ollie does a lot of maneuvers like bulldozing Bigs, sitting on top of Bigs etc. typical bulldog moves. They never run or anything, just wrestle, snort and slobber. The downside is that when Bigly can get the upper hand. He humps the hell out of poor Ollie. He had huge jewels at the back and Ahem...he has an incredibly huge lipstick. Itís really impressive when itís out of the case which it always is when heís on top and he pokes that thing at Ollie like a stealth missle headed for Moscow. I donít know what to do. I actually feel sorry for Ollie. Bigs parents are pretty ineffective with discipline. Iíd discipline him (have them leave the leash on his harness) and yank him off Ollie with a loud ďNo!Ē I donít want to offend them, but I really am feeling bad for Ollie. After the dogs wrestle and Bigs gets his jollies off the go for a walk together. Ollie has lost weight on these walks and he loves wrestling with Bigs. He doesnít seem to mind the pseudo sexual antics, but I worry as Bigs will get older and bigger.

    I really need some advice here on how to handle this. Thanks

    PS the video of them is AFTER a walk.


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    The Ultimate Sourmug helsonwheels's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    First of all you’re doing them the favour. Yes put that leash on and yank Bigly if humping starts. Owners should understand Ollie is there to calm Big for the walks not get humped the daylights out of him. Eventually Ollie will get fed up n it might turned into a nasty fight. Use the leash n yes, do use the NO with a yank of the leash. Big will understand the difference with playing is ok but humping I’ll get crap n yanked.

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    Bulldog Vet in Training Lalaloopsie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Ask them if they would mind using electric collar on Bigs. The problem with humping is that dog doesn’t have real conscious control over this, it’s more about instinct, so usually just NO isn’t enough. My Tank is usually a coward which is growled at, and he never growled or snapped in return, but one sweet neighbors bulldog doesn’t growl at him and treats him like a friend. And what does Tank do? Humps. He never humps anything or anybody else. Only his friendly buddy. So when we go for a play date, I put on electric collar on him, set for the low level BZZ. It scares hell out of him and stops humping. Nothing else helped.
    It doesn’t hurt, I tried on my own neck.
    And humping must be stopped, if they don’t plan mating him, they won’t be happy themselves if they won’t stop it now. It’s an unsightly behaviour.

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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    So both Louie and Jax are neutered. Whenever the two of them wrestle and play, Jax who is much smaller, always starts humping Louie and sometimes the red rocket comes out. Itís a dominance thing and I stop it immediately. Normally all I have to do is yell Jax NO and it stops. If not, the squirt bottle comes out.


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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    I'll preface this answer with, "It will probably get worse before it gets better."
    It's both(Dominance & Testosterone) and it's probably peaking right now...hormones are raging with that 1 year old and probably will be for another 2 years. Agree with Lala that he's got little control over this. The burden of correction should fall squarely on his owners, not you. If they don't step up then you'll have to take on the awkward/uncomfortable task of asking them to step up and correct him...or you continue to correct him. You correcting him will likely have to escalate as he escalates his dominance. Hopefully, the hormones will level off soon and he can begin to settle...some do, some don't. The problem is, he's likely not being corrected at home.
    Difficult situation here as I know you want for the two guys to continue to be friendly and spend time together, but you also do not want to throw a spanner in the human relationship.
    If it were my situation, I'd get a water bottle(as previously suggested) and use it on him and tell the owners that I intend to do this in lieu of yanking his lead and barking, yelling "No" at him. See where that gets you. Water bottles work on most dogs but not all. Some will go after it if they see it...so be discreet, sneaky even, in regards to delivering the squirt. BTW, forget about the spray setting, use only the stream setting.

    saving as many as we can for the sake of Bullykind

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    The Ultimate Sourmug helsonwheels's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Try the bottle water might work for you but.... in all my cases water never worked. I always had dogs loving water lol...not one did not just stared at me wagged their tails. See what gives you never know.

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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Quote Originally Posted by helsonwheels View Post
    Try the bottle water might work for you but.... in all my cases water never worked. I always had dogs loving water lol...not one did not just stared at me wagged their tails. See what gives you never know.
    I donít have water in mine...started with vinegar but at the suggestion of the trainer, switched to 151 rum. Aim for the mouth.


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    Bulldog Vet in Training Lalaloopsie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    I’m sitting here with my mouth open, you can start squirting rum!

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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lalaloopsie View Post
    Iím sitting here with my mouth open, you can start squirting rum!
    Iím waiting for the day when Louie decides he likes it lol.


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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbrugs View Post
    I don’t have water in mine...started with vinegar but at the suggestion of the trainer, switched to 151 rum. Aim for the mouth.
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    Lollll. Love your trainer!!!

    Vinegar...ehhhhhh I would worry about the eyes. Seriously, water just never worked for my dogs...crap, most of them would grab the hose n play or snap at the water while I’m aiming at them, or jump in the air to get wet.....they all loved it.. a little yank n a no always worked for me... but I must admit, need to try the 151 rum and aim my own mouth....hahaha

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    Bulldog Vet in Training KING OLLIE HOUSE of BULLDOG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Thank you everyone for your advice and support. We are all on the same page. Today Bigly wasnít quite as bad. They wrestled for 15-20 mins pre-walk and then 15 mins or so post walk. Bigly didnít get much chance to be on top. Ollie seems oblivious to the whole thing.


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    Default Re: Dominance or Testosterone Driven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cbrugs View Post
    So both Louie and Jax are neutered. Whenever the two of them wrestle and play, Jax who is much smaller, always starts humping Louie and sometimes the red rocket comes out. Itís a dominance thing and I stop it immediately. Normally all I have to do is yell Jax NO and it stops. If not, the squirt bottle comes out.


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    Same with my two... I yell ďOFFĒ and they stop and resume play


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