A few prayers needed

[Texas Carol]

You are on to something... Hubby HAS to be consistent in the training or this type of thing will happen.. In dog world when there is no obvious leader... All heck does break loose.

I could be wrong, but in that video Curly seems to be showing dominance... Ears are back, chin is up and chest out with tight 'jumps' not really a run. Do you have a trainer that can view that and tell you?




Great call, Christine...I agree with all, thought his lil short jumps
than stiff stance over Jawnie was dominance but thought video
too short to really tell for sure.

 

[nubonics]

Thanks for the insight Christine and Carol. I really thought the short jumps was more to keep up with Jawnie's pace than a dominance move but the more I look at other videos of Curls playing with my other dogs I can def see a difference in stance. Fair to note - he does bunny hops like that because of his hip dysplasia which I guess is why I never differentiated a shorter stride to equal dominance. I just thought he was trying to slow down his run since the pup isn't fast at all.

Here's a question - my husband likes to play chase with Curly - in which my hubby sometimes has a toy/sometimes not and curly will chase him - then vice versa. In this play, curly will try to trip my husband by doing these short bunny hops. Should my hubby stop encouraging that behavior while playing? I refuse to play that way with curly because I think he gets to rough but the hubby likes to run, roll and wrestle with curly

Thanks for helping crack this code. Who would have thought a 10 sec video had so much insight! Btw the scene ends by Jawnie falling over then curly nosing Jawnie's belly (which I thought was Curly trying to indicate for him to get up) and then jump off for Jawnie to chase him. Now I see we need to also work on play time. Eye opening indeed!


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[nubonics]

Ps - we are looking into trainers and behaviorist for curly. We have heard of a good one in CO springs but it's a few months before we move so we want to try to find one sooner than later


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[2BullyMama]

Thanks for the insight Christine and Carol. I really thought the short jumps was more to keep up with Jawnie's pace than a dominance move but the more I look at other videos of Curls playing with my other dogs I can def see a difference in stance. Fair to note - he does bunny hops like that because of his hip dysplasia which I guess is why I never differentiated a shorter stride to equal dominance. I just thought he was trying to slow down his run since the pup isn't fast at all.

Here's a question - my husband likes to play chase with Curly - in which my hubby sometimes has a toy/sometimes not and curly will chase him - then vice versa. In this play, curly will try to trip my husband by doing these short bunny hops. Should my hubby stop encouraging that behavior while playing? I refuse to play that way with curly because I think he gets to rough but the hubby likes to run, roll and wrestle with curly

Thanks for helping crack this code. Who would have thought a 10 sec video had so much insight! Btw the scene ends by Jawnie falling over then curly nosing Jawnie's belly (which I thought was Curly trying to indicate for him to get up) and then jump off for Jawnie to chase him. Now I see we need to also work on play time. Eye opening indeed!


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hard to explain, but going to try.... it is not so much the 'bunny hop' as it is he stance during the hop. he is very 'tight/ridged' in his movement, along with the chin up and ears back -- the combination of the three is what caught my eye. There is dog body language that with some breeds is very apparent, but with the Bulldog it is not so easy to see.

It can be possible that Jawnie is giving a signal you can not see and Curly is reacting to it..... it could even be that Curly just sees Jawnie as completion for alpha since Daddy is not on the program .... so many what if's that I hope the trainer will be able to help you fix.

 

[nubonics]

Thank you all!! I actually feel like I might be able to reintegrate Jawnie back into the family. Him and curly have seen each other and there is no outward aggression/too much excitement or fear when they see each other. They have not sniffed each other or stood next each to each other yet (we aren't going to allow that to happen until he he healed, done rehab and is a bit stronger) but maybe there is hope. Here is a picture of them and how the are viewing each other (again don't mind the mess - we are still trying to figure out where to put stuff since we needed to rearrange our living room completely).

I also found a trainer that works with training service animals and seems very experienced. I've reached out to her for help so hopefully we can get this curly dominance thing under control and my husband learns a thing or two about being the Alpha.

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[g8erjackie]

Curly looks apologetic....poor baby Jawnie. Sending good vibes your way! I hope the 4 dog pack works out for you!

 

[1Chumly]

Not trying to be a downer but please be careful and not lulled into a false sense of security. When my dogs started fighting and it was very much a dominance thing, there was a couple of times they went for a few months without any problem, then out of the blue all hell would break loose again. The last fight was very serious so we had to rehome one for the safety of all. BUT, my dogs were both adults and one of yours is still a puppy so that may make all the difference. I hope it all works out for you as I know how upsetting it is to have to give one up.

 

[Chunky White]

Good luck and I hate you're having problems with Curly and Jawnie

I have seen similar dominance issues with the female bulldog I had but chunky loves all people and dogs so far. I haven't tried adding pets to the household yet and probably won't

 

[nubonics]

Not trying to be a downer but please be careful and not lulled into a false sense of security. When my dogs started fighting and it was very much a dominance thing, there was a couple of times they went for a few months without any problem, then out of the blue all hell would break loose again. The last fight was very serious so we had to rehome one for the safety of all. BUT, my dogs were both adults and one of yours is still a puppy so that may make all the difference. I hope it all works out for you as I know how upsetting it is to have to give one up.

We are definitely not setting our expectations that we will be able to reintegrate them. I know there a lot to read in this post so I'll summarize our plans

Our plan is for the next 5 weeks to keep them separated in our home in VA while Jawnie is in a cast - he needs weekly visits to the ortho surgeon because the break in his bone is close to a growth plate. We literally have to climb over furniture to get from one side of the house to another so there won't be any unexpected visitors from one to another.

Once he is cleared for Rehab I am moving from VA to my parents place in Philly with Jawnie and my Boston mixes so he can do rehab in a safe environment and be socialized with dogs at the same time. My husband will be making weekend trips with curly, who will be muzzled to re introduce the pack. We are hoping that once off of his own turf, curly will be a bit more chill. We are also moving to CO at the end of July so Curly is never going to see Jawnie in his known territory again.

While I am in philly (and in the next 5 weeks) my husband is going to be working with a trainer on this dominant behavior and I will also be taking Jawnie to obedience school.

If reintegration does not work, my sister has already agreed to take Jawnie but regardless we won't be rehoming him until we are clear with the medical issues (it isn't fair to burden my sister with this commitment, especially since I work from home and it was our dog that caused the problem).

We are hoping reintegration may work because curly is not displaying signs of dominance/ aggression now that I am back home (adding to my theory that curly does not see my husband as an Alpha, which means my husbands needs the training too). Jawnie also does not seem to be afraid of curly (from the distance at least), which was our greatest concern.

 

[1Chumly]

I think you are doing all you can.... and then some! I really do hope it all works out for you.

 

[nubonics]

I think you are doing all you can.... and then some! I really do hope it all works out for you.

Thank you! At the very least we have a plan and a backup plan. I pray we can get them to live together but we know he will be in good hands with my sis

 

[Texas Carol]

Wow...I'm so impressed with your level of commitment to Jawnie
and all of your dogs. I think you have a great plan with realistic
understanding & acceptance of the issues, I am rooting for y'all.

And praying daily too. Thanks for all these updates, you are helping
so many, now & newbies to come, understand these things.

May God grant you favor in this...Amen!

 

[nubonics]

Wow...I'm so impressed with your level of commitment to Jawnie
and all of your dogs. I think you have a great plan with realistic
understanding & acceptance of the issues, I am rooting for y'all.

And praying daily too. Thanks for all these updates, you are helping
so many, now & newbies to come, understand these things.

May God grant you favor in this...Amen!

Amen!!

We are very fortunate to have so many people willing to help us out and we are also currently in a place that we can do a physical separation for an extended period of time. If this happened when we were living in LA or later down the road when we are in CO I don't think we would have been able to formulate a concrete plan like we currently have and would have just rehomed Jawnie.

Everyone at EBN has been extreme helpful and even helped breakdown things that we couldn't see ourselves which we are so thankful for. I really hope this will eventually help people in similar situations. I will definitely keep everyone up to date in the weeks to come!

 

[My Otis]

Nu, you are a Wonderful Mom to Your 4 legged Babies, God Bless You Nu. I Pray as time goes by Curly will get along with Jawnie and they will become best friends. I know how hard it is to let someone else raise your furbaby, I had to do this several years ago, it is not easy. I am Praying for You Nu and Your Precious Family. Love, Susan and Elmo

 

[Bazza]

Wow just read the whole saga, I am so sad this is all happening for you, would be so very distressing , as I read through the posts I can see you have had great advice and support, and agree your level of commitment to all dogs including the Jawnie is amazing. Hope all works well for you, but if not you know Jawnie has a home regardless and you have done your very best. Good luck and keep us updated :D