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Thread: Conflict with Macon and the boys

  1. #1
    Dog Park Attendant Roseann's Avatar
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    Default Conflict with Macon and the boys

    I need help. Sometimes I hint that I may need a little advice but this time I need help. I'm out of my league it seems. When we brought Macon home she was nearly on her death bed. I didn't realize at the time how bad she was until she got better. Rootbeer, lab, and Clyde, EB/basset mix 10 months, have a problem with her. When she was sick they would be aggressive to her and I would get on them and they would stop. Oh, I should mention that Henry and her get along perfectly. No aggression what so ever. He sniffs her all over, licks her face, whatever and they are friends. So now that she's healed up some and she's not so sick the problem has gotten worse. Now she can defend herself and she does. Rootbeer is a big sissy, (the correct word isn't allowed) lol He is scared of about everything and does the jump like he's gonna go after her but is a chicken and doesn't. When he does this, Clyde jumps her, then Rootbeer bites her on the back. It happens every time, just like that. Rootbeer gets Clyde going them he gets her from behind. She fights back now and sometimes growls first or even starts it in the defensive, they're gonna get me, way. I don't know how to fix this. Here's my plan. Please tell me if its not a good plan. I have put Rootbeer on the porch. The only input he can put in now is a bark. They can't see him. He can't see us either. I have gated us in the kitchen. "Us" is Henry, Macon and Clyde. Now, I should mention the Clyde is a bad ***. He don't back down to any dog, ever. He would probably fight to the death. The neighbor has a pit and Clyde takes him down and makes him go back to his own yard. The pit out weights him by maybe 40-50 pounds. He is massive. Anyway, my thought is that if I can get Clyde and Macon to become friendly, then I can put Clyde out and bring Rootbeer in and try to get them to get along. Now the problem as I see it is that when Clyde and Rootbeer are together with her, are they going to still gang up on her? I have the shock collar that I've considered using on the boys. It has a beep and a vibrate mode. The vibe works wonders for Clyde. I only use that mode. I've had to use it to train him before. Sometines I still do as a reminder when he forgets his manners. He's a really great dog, it's just this thing with Macon. Ahhh!! So, what do you guys think? Any ideas? Thoughts? I'll take any advice. If my plan is off, please put your input in. I've never done this and everything I've tried has failed. I will gladly take criticism on my plan LOL I just need to get them to all be tolerant. She's old and sick and I'm getting pissed off at the two A-Holes!
    They don't fight outside, or when coming in when they're all crowded on the porch. It's only in the house.

  2. #2
    Dog Show Judge Become a 4 Paw Member natski282's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    Hmmm sounds like now that the dog is healthy there adjusting the pack pecking order to Me . I went thru this when we introduced Odin to our bunch . I tried many things but in the end it was truly up to them ( we had 3 females and 2 males ), our oldest Diva at 10 was picked on nipped in the butt chased ect ect by the younger males until I put a stop too it . Both Males learned I was the alpha male the hard way ( Odin =Cane Corso 2 yrs old 100 lbs , Dakota 2 yrs Malamute lab mix and the worst actor in all this ) and would not put up with them picking on Diva . That was settled took a few weeks but what happened next was both males started the hair on the back snarling ect ect , I would use mostly loud vocal commands , but in the end they had to figure it out and did without to much damage too themselves I let them figure out there position in the pack , Odin won and we have had no issues since but this took a couple of months to work itself out . Odin now protects Diva walks between her and Dakota if Dakota even walk towards her and Dakota is now in no way aggressive towards Diva now .
    Not sure if this helps you as i think all packs are different depending on the personalities in the pack , just occurred once I read your story that it sounded similar to what I went thru

  3. #3
    Dog Park Attendant Roseann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    @natski282 I had 3 docile boys until she came into the picture. I have to grab and separate them if Rootbeer and Clyde are together because it becomes a dangerous fight because she is old and they both jump her. Now that I've moved Rootbeer to the porch they just go at it together with the mouth talking stuff and then quit. Clyde looks as if he knows she's above him in the pecking order when it's only him. It's so confusing what to do. I only separated them today and there has been 4 arguments that weren't dangerous. Early this morning the 2 boys jumped her and that's why I am trying the separation. Do you think I'm wrong to separate them? If it's best to let them work it out themselves I can do that. It just doesn't seem to be getting better, only worse.

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    Dog Show Judge Become a 4 Paw Member natski282's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseann View Post
    @natski282 I had 3 docile boys until she came into the picture. I have to grab and separate them if Rootbeer and Clyde are together because it becomes a dangerous fight because she is old and they both jump her. Now that I've moved Rootbeer to the porch they just go at it together with the mouth talking stuff and then quit. Clyde looks as if he knows she's above him in the pecking order when it's only him. It's so confusing what to do. I only separated them today and there has been 4 arguments that weren't dangerous. Early this morning the 2 boys jumped her and that's why I am trying the separation. Do you think I'm wrong to separate them? If it's best to let them work it out themselves I can do that. It just doesn't seem to be getting better, only worse.
    Well like you I did the separation thing Diva was always the target ( older 10 now and less able to defend herself ). What I did was equally make sure the two aggressors know in no uncertain terms that what they were doing was bullying ( no pun intended ) and I guess you could say i bullied them back . It took a couple of months but they learned that I was willing to put them physically on the ground by the scruff of there neck if they continued to pick on Diva . It worked for us , I have seen this before in packs before I owned Bulldogs so it is not bread specific , its to Me pack mentality . Me too I had 3 docile females until I saved Dakota and then i saved Odin as much as I truly love them I wish I had never introduced the Males , but it all worked out . Roseann it is your call you know those personalities better then anyone here , Is the Female fixed ?

  5. #5
    Dog Park Attendant Roseann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    Everyone is fixed. The males were fixed before she came and she came to us fixed. She's also old like yours. Somewhere in the 10-13 range. I have been grabbing them and pulling everyone apart but I hadn't thought of putting them down on their backs. I will definitely do that next! It's like Clyde knows he's under her in the order but when it's the two they gang up. I don't mind the 1 on 1 fighting. That's establishing order in my eyes. It's the 2 on 1 that I can't get away from.

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    Dog Show Judge Become a 4 Paw Member natski282's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Roseann View Post
    Everyone is fixed. The males were fixed before she came and she came to us fixed. She's also old like yours. Somewhere in the 10-13 range. I have been grabbing them and pulling everyone apart but I hadn't thought of putting them down on their backs. I will definitely do that next! It's like Clyde knows he's under her in the order but when it's the two they gang up. I don't mind the 1 on 1 fighting. That's establishing order in my eyes. It's the 2 on 1 that I can't get away from.
    Yes the two on one thing is not good they feed on it and it can get out of hand very quick , When dogs fight it most times is over once one is on the ground sometimes they show there belly as a sign of submission to the other and most times I have seen the fight stop . Maybe that is it your the Alpha by putting them on the ground by there scruff you are showing as leader that you are not pleased that alone might stop the two on one if not be careful if if you are in the situation of the two on one and pull one of those aggressors off as it might allow the other to attack the one you are putting down on the ground I am concerned for your arm or hand here as dogs do not know when in fight mode that it is your arm there biting ok .
    If I was going to go after the aggressors and put them on the ground I would go for the most aggressive one IE strongest in the pack and use him not only as a example to others but your truly showing you are the Alpha and will take no guff .

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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    @Roseann --- how do you feed them? All at once or each have to wait their turn? do you walk them at all or do you rely on the yard for potty and play time?

    With Macon beginning to feel better the boys are making sure she stays in line of the pack and although she is older does not mean she isn't dominate but just has not shown it yet. do you use 'nothing in life is free'? Also, even though your boys have always been good together and somewhat docile.... a new dog in the mix resets the pack. You have to go back to setting the limits with all of them so they know the order also, the two having issues should be taken for a walk at least once a day to help them pack up and know their place.

    if you do not normally belly them up for correction, then do not do it now... your alpha may turn on you during the fight. It works, but only if it is a tool you have always used. Stand tall and confident with a firm NO and when pulling apart a fight ALWAYS pull the rear legs never go to the neck or try to pull apart near the face. I have worked at a dog daycare/training center (I am not a trainer, but have a lot of experience with fights in day care) -- stay away from the face/neck, if pulling the legs does not work throw water on them.
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    Dog Show Judge Become a 4 Paw Member natski282's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    Quote Originally Posted by 2BullyMama View Post
    @Roseann --- how do you feed them? All at once or each have to wait their turn? do you walk them at all or do you rely on the yard for potty and play time?

    With Macon beginning to feel better the boys are making sure she stays in line of the pack and although she is older does not mean she isn't dominate but just has not shown it yet. do you use 'nothing in life is free'? Also, even though your boys have always been good together and somewhat docile.... a new dog in the mix resets the pack. You have to go back to setting the limits with all of them so they know the order also, the two having issues should be taken for a walk at least once a day to help them pack up and know their place.

    if you do not normally belly them up for correction, then do not do it now... your alpha may turn on you during the fight. It works, but only if it is a tool you have always used. Stand tall and confident with a firm NO and when pulling apart a fight ALWAYS pull the rear legs never go to the neck or try to pull apart near the face. I have worked at a dog daycare/training center (I am not a trainer, but have a lot of experience with fights in day care) -- stay away from the face/neck, if pulling the legs does not work throw water on them.
    Well said Christine

  10. #9
    Dog Park Attendant Roseann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conflict with Macon and the boys

    The true alpha in the house is my husband, not me. Everyone knows this and he has a different kind of control than I do. A look from him and they behave different. I have to make a noise, clap or snap my fingers and call their name. I had only thought of walking them 2 at a time this morning. They go play and potty together in the yard, all at once. They eat together too. In the mornings they're outside when we put the food down in the designated areas and they run to their own spot. In the evening it's a little different. Macon goes to her spot and waits. The others are anxious at my feet. I put 2 bowls down and then the other two. For treats it always goes in order. Henry, Rootbeer, Clyde then Macon. There's not really an issue with food or treats. At least while it's happening, that is. I may be creating a problem without knowing. I never grab a leg, ever. It's always a collar or neck. I can't help it. I scream like a damn fool and start pulling them apart. I'm so afraid she'll get hurt and I never think, it just happens. They do stop when I do this. It doesn't continue. I have heard the nothing in life is free mentioned on here a lot and I've never read up on it. Wish I would have but I can catch up. I just need to read what to do as I haven't a clue. I have never put them on their belly. Truthfully I'm quite weak and I figured I'd get my *** handed to me by one of my dogs. Lol when it was Rootbeer and Clyde I had to just let them do this til they figured it out. I'm just scared for her. I feel like I may be making it worse. Husband had to make me let the boys work it out because I would yell and not let them fight. Which I guess means I didn't let them establish pecking order.

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