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Thread: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

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    Potty Trainer Alicia Del Rosario's Avatar
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    Default Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Hi! I was contacted by the breeder that I got my english bulldog from and he's offered to sell me another pup at a very reduced cost due to a grade 3 murmur. Does anyone have any experience or advice? She's pretty cute but I don't want to get something I won't be able to afford proper care for. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    I tagged two member that could give some advice
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    There is a part of your heart not alive until a bulldog has entered your lif
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    Nitschke (2004-2011) and Banks (2005-2014) -- My angels
    Thank you for all the love, fun and teachings




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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    I am simply offering my humble opinion. I personally will not fall in a trap of paying for an inexpensive puppy only to incur significant vet bills at a later time. Per the article below, the murmur could be insignificant if the murmur is 1-2. With a higher number, there is a good chance that the problem could be grave which requires significant medical support.

    Article on murmurs as extracted from VCA Animal Hospitals website.




    What is an innocent or physiologic heart murmur?

    "An innocent or physiologic heart murmur is a heart murmur that has no impact on the dog's health."
    An innocent or physiologic heart murmur is a heart murmur that has no impact on the dog's health.
    It is very common for young puppies, especially large breed puppies, to develop an innocent heart murmur while they are growing rapidly. The murmur may first appear at 6-8 weeks of age, and a puppy with an innocent heart murmur will usually outgrow it by about 4-5 months of age. This type of murmur is benign.
    In general, a physiologic or innocent heart murmur will have a low intensity (usually Grade I-II out of VI), and does not cause any symptoms or clinical signs.


    Murmurs are graded by their intensity, usually on a scale of I-VI. A Grade I murmur is very soft or quiet, may only be heard intermittently, and is usually only heard in one location on the chest, while a Grade VI murmur is very loud, heard everywhere that the heart can be heard, and can be felt when a person places their hand on the chest in the area of the heart (in cardiac terminology, this is called a 'thrill').
    What is the prognosis?


    "The prognosis ranges from excellent to grave, depending on the cause of the murmur."
    The prognosis ranges from excellent to grave, depending on the cause of the murmur. If the murmur is physiologic, no treatment is required and the prognosis is generally good to excellent. If the murmur is caused by extracardiac disease or a functional problem that can be treated, the murmur may resolve over time. The long-term prognosis for a dog with a murmur caused by congenital heart disease is extremely variable, depending on the specific type of defect that is present; if the defect can be surgically corrected the prognosis is very good. A dog with mitral insufficiency can usually be managed with long-term medications. The prognosis for a dog with dilated cardiomyopathy varies - if the dog is showing symptoms of heart failure the prognosis will be grave. The prognosis for a dog with bacterial endocarditis will vary with the severity of the infection and the valve that is affected. The need for good dental care, including regular professional dental cleaning under general anesthesia cannot be overemphasized as a means of preventing endocarditis (see our handout "Dog Dental Care").
    Since each case is different, your veterinarian will discuss the prognosis and treatment options for your dog, based on the results of diagnostic testing. In all cases, ongoing monitoring and periodic diagnostic testing will be necessary to track the progress of the condition.
    This client information sheet is based on material written by: Cheryl Yuill, DVM, MSc, CVH

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    Potty Trainer Alicia Del Rosario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    I agree with you. It's not the money thing as I wasn't even looking for another dog now but I feel like I should try and help her. He mentioned putting her to sleep so it's tugging at my heart strings. Thought maybe some owners out there have exp with this and could give me guidance.

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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Well I don't have experience with this, but hew should give you the pup and not sell it to you, if you want it.
    Have a Great Bully Day.
    Member of The Bulldog Club of America, The Bulldog Club of Texas and French Bulldog Club of America.
    Bully hugs from - BeBe, Hazel, Lucy Lu, JLO, Hillary, Henri & Katie


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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    I had a feeling he would euthanize her. If it were me, and I wouldn't be able to afford the care this may require, I would give her up to your local Bulldog Rescue. I would never, ever, ever be able
    to give her back to the breeder knowing he would kill her.


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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    I have two dogs who I adopted when they were both puppies with Grade 3 heart murmurs. Sebastian was my first one and he was diagnosed with Severe pulmonic stenosis after having an echocardiogram done by a cardiologist. He was not eligible for the angioplasty as they could tell just by the echo that his arteries were not in the correct position to benefit from having a valvuloplasty (balloon inserted to stretch artery) done. He was give a life expectancy of only 18 months but he will turn 4 years old in December and the only way you can tell he has a heart problem is he is small (only 40 pounds) and he will pass out from over exertion, which could be something as simple as playing too long with his brothers. He is not on any medication but he does get yearly echos done which cost me around $300.

    Remy is my second one who I adopted from our very own @bullmama, also with a grade 3. Remy was diagnosed with Moderate pulmonic stenosis, again after having an echo done by my cardiologist. He did undergo the angioplasty but at the end couldn't insert the balloon in him either. Remy's arteries came pretty darn close to being in the "normal" position but in the end he thought he could blow his artery by trying to inflate the balloon. That surgery was approximately $1100. Remy is on 25mg of Atenlol twice a day and he just turned 3 on October 17th. He is a big boy with really long legs and a body that will not stop wiggling when he is happy which is 99% of the time. Remy doesn't sound congested all the time like Sebastian and he was given a normal life expectancy.

    My advice to you is you have to follow your gut and not let this breeder "guilt" you into taking this baby. If you feel you can afford, both financially and emotionally, to invest in her then by all means get her. I would do like David suggested and try to talk the breeder into giving her to you instead of selling her. If the breeder is going to put her down if no one wants her, what is the harm in just giving her to a loving family and a good home instead of trying to get money for an "imperfect" puppy?

    I hope this helps and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to message me
    Kim, Lord Sebastian, Sir Oliver, Remy Le Beau, and Gracie Lou <3

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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Well put. If the breeder is well intentioned, he should not be charging you any money and just hand the puppy to you. Not only he should do this willingly, he should be thankful.

    I give you credit for thinking of this animal, a testament that you are a very kind person. Good Luck and I hope that you do the right thing.


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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Quote Originally Posted by harveyspecter View Post
    Well put. If the breeder is well intentioned, he should not be charging you any money and just hand the puppy to you. Not only he should do this willingly, he should be thankful.

    I give you credit for thinking of this animal, a testament that you are a very kind person. Good Luck and I hope that you do the right thing.

    Couldn't have said it better myself!




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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidh View Post
    Well I don't have experience with this, but hew should give you the pup and not sell it to you, if you want it.
    Well said, I completely agree.

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    Default Re: Grade 3 Heart Murmur

    Thank you everyone. Not sure the outcome yet. I have emailed the breeder and told him I'd take her off his hands and provide the necessary care for her but could not pay him for her due to large upfront cost for her to have an echo. I also don't want her put to sleep though . Will see what he says. My adult profession has always been to help people as I am a nurse and was EMS for years prior so I guess it's in me to help everyone even the fur babies that can't help themselves

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