Puppy Vaccinations before Finish Nursing

[Baxter Tiberius]

Hi. Me again. :D

Okay so the vet here in Miami told me that if a puppy is given vaccines before 8 weeks, they are usually useless, and don't "take" ... because the puppy is getting immunity from the mothers milk. Because my puppy was given his first two vaccines at 6 and 8 weeks of age, they are recommending doing a whole other set of 3 vaccine courses. The breeder said "They are trying to make money, he doesn't need more". The vet said "Would you rather he get sick?" My concern: "Vaccines are known to cause health problems, autoimmunity, and hypersensitivities". Never, ever, ever over-vaccinate. Only do whats necessary.

So my question is this: Is there any evidence that vaccines wont "take" simply because the puppy is still nursing? The mother provides antibodies to a wide range of diseases. But I'm not 100% sure that means the vaccine is going to be "nullified" by those antibodies. I suppose its possible, as vaccines typically stimulate natural production of antibodies by the host (puppy). Maybe the influx of "premade" antibodies from the mother prevents the body from being stimulated into producing its own.

If that's the case, my question for the breeder is: why don't you know this stuff?????? Its a huge, huge issue. My guess is he should be doing 1 set of vaccines just prior to shipping. And the other two sets should be done by me. So now the dog has to get 5 sets of vaccine shots (2 wasted + 3 new ones) because the breeder doesn't know basic stuff like this.

Anyone have any idea?

 

[Marine91]

I wish I had an answer for you. My baby got her shots as 6, 8 and 12 weeks and our vet who is a reputable bully vet never mentioned anything like yours has stated and is perfectly fine right now. The only thing mine is not allowed to do by law is Titers testing which I think sucks.

 

[Baxter Tiberius]

Update from the vet:

Vaccinations are useless as long as the maternal antibodies are still present in the system.

This is why vaccinations should not start until 8 weeks of age (or at least a couple weeks after the last nursing session), and continue once every 3 weeks for a total of 3 sets.

Somehow I got Baxter at 8 week mark, and he had already had 2 sets of shots.

That would require the first set at 5 weeks, and second set at 8 weeks.

Apparently the breeder does what he needs to, to get the dogs out the door, on the plane and through customs, even if that means giving pointless vaccinations.

Once again, not happy with the breeder.

 

[Bizzymammabee]

Update from the vet:

Vaccinations are useless as long as the maternal antibodies are still present in the system.

This is why vaccinations should not start until 8 weeks of age (or at least a couple weeks after the last nursing session), and continue once every 3 weeks for a total of 3 sets.

Somehow I got Baxter at 8 week mark, and he had already had 2 sets of shots.

That would require the first set at 5 weeks, and second set at 8 weeks.

Apparently the breeder does what he needs to, to get the dogs out the door, on the plane and through customs, even if that means giving pointless vaccinations.

Once again, not happy with the breeder.

I was also told by my vet that the early vaccinations tend to be a waste due to the mother's immunity. Unfortunately a lot of breeders will do what they have to do to meet regulations to ship that pup. I think the vet can run a tither test to see and then you can probably go from there.

 

[Ashleym]

I was also told by my vet that the early vaccinations tend to be a waste due to the mother's immunity. Unfortunately a lot of breeders will do what they have to do to meet regulations to ship that pup. I think the vet can run a tither test to see and then you can probably go from there.

Yes agreeing with everyone on the titer test to see if you need the extra vaccination.

 

[2BullyMama]

getting some puppy experts here for you

 

[Sherry]

I always wait until pups are weaned from mom, then start the vaccinations

 

[bullmama]

What your vet says is correct, sort of!

But.... don't get upset with your breeder just yet.

English Bulldog puppies are weaned at a much younger age than most breeds. I start weaning my pups at 4 weeks of age, and sometimes sooner if they are thriving.

EB pups are extremely aggressive- and as you can expect now that you are an owner- EB's are gluttons.... even from little pups.... and that includes from mamma too!

EB mammas are at high risk for mastitis due to their aggressive offspring. Their suction is extreme which can create a reverse suction causing bacteria to be able to enter the nipple. Teeth and claws can leave scratches on the teets, constant tugging and pulling of the nipples can also cause these infections.

EB mammas are also so concerned with their pups they don't take good care of themselves, so while you are raising a litter your care for mamma has to be just as important, I even feed water to them in a syringe to make sure they do not get dehydrated, especially during the 3rd week of nursing. The moms can lose weight and become dehydrated very quickly, so nursing beyond 4 weeks can really put a huge sacrifice to mamma's immune system and her overall health. Sometimes I start weaning even earlier depending on how mamma and pups are doing. Smaller litters can nurse longer. Sometimes mamma doesn't make enough milk to fill their gluttonous little tummies. I have many times supplemented with Goat milk after the second week to help fill them up (little piggies!).

So.... if they quit nursing at 4 weeks then the maternal antibodies will wear off after a couple weeks. If there has been supplementing there is even a window there where the pup is at risk.

I give the parvo shot at 6 weeks old and the combo shot at 7 weeks. I like to separate them to look for any signs of allergic reactions. There should be a minimum of 2 weeks between vaccines. Hope this helps.

 

[Marine91]

What your vet says is correct, sort of!

But.... don't get upset with your breeder just yet.

English Bulldog puppies are weaned at a much younger age than most breeds. I start weaning my pups at 4 weeks of age, and sometimes sooner if they are thriving.

EB pups are extremely aggressive- and as you can expect now that you are an owner- EB's are gluttons.... even from little pups.... and that includes from mamma too!

EB mammas are at high risk for mastitis due to their aggressive offspring. Their suction is extreme which can create a reverse suction causing bacteria to be able to enter the nipple. Teeth and claws can leave scratches on the teets, constant tugging and pulling of the nipples can also cause these infections.

EB mammas are also so concerned with their pups they don't take good care of themselves, so while you are raising a litter your care for mamma has to be just as important, I even feed water to them in a syringe to make sure they do not get dehydrated, especially during the 3rd week of nursing. The moms can lose weight and become dehydrated very quickly, so nursing beyond 4 weeks can really put a huge sacrifice to mamma's immune system and her overall health. Sometimes I start weaning even earlier depending on how mamma and pups are doing. Smaller litters can nurse longer. Sometimes mamma doesn't make enough milk to fill their gluttonous little tummies. I have many times supplemented with Goat milk after the second week to help fill them up (little piggies!).

So.... if they quit nursing at 4 weeks then the maternal antibodies will wear off after a couple weeks. If there has been supplementing there is even a window there where the pup is at risk.

I give the parvo shot at 6 weeks old and the combo shot at 7 weeks. I like to separate them to look for any signs of allergic reactions. There should be a minimum of 2 weeks between vaccines. Hope this helps.

Thank you for posting.your thoughts. I had asked the breeder who we got Harlea from about it after posting my original reply and she said pretty much the same thing which is why our vet didn't bring it up.

 

[ddnene]

[MENTION=2]desertskybulldogs[/MENTION]

Great post... I wish I had you to consult w/Bella's babies. You are way more informed than my Vet was... LOL


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[Texas Carol]

Have vet titre before any more vacs...over vacs especially sensitive bullies
is not good. Sorry you've had such worries from the get go and soon, it's
all behind you. I'm not sure until that leg/hip issue is resolved that I'd do
more shots.Of course until Baxter IS titered & you're sure he's protected,
no going out in public places, walking outside, etc. Good luck & GOD bless!

 

[Baxter Tiberius]

The breeder told me he stopped nursing the pup 10 days prior to shipping him to me.
If the birth date is accurate, that means he was nursing until 6-7 weeks old.
According to his vaccination dates (assuming those are correct, one set he gave me were fake, to get the puppy through customs), he definitely had one set of vaccinations while still nursing, or pretty much immediately after.
So I guess those are null and void.
Then another set just before shipping.
Rather than getting one more set, he'll probably need two.
I will ask the vet to do titers, thank you for the suggestions.