Need help choosing a new food for Chunky

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This diet has been formulated by Jeni Boniface [email protected] and Trina Nowak [email protected], to assist dogs diagnosed with cystinuria. We are not veterinarians; we cannot and do not presume to diagnose your dog. We are animal nutritionists and consultants. It is our sincere hope that by making an informed choice to use this diet, you will find that it will greatly assist in decreasing cystinuria-related symptoms in your dog. However, we cannot guarantee that by feeding this diet, your dog will not develop complications associated with cystinuria. The goal is to reduce the likelihood of occurrence of cystine stone formation. To achieve the maximum potential of this diet, it is imperative that you not substitute or vary the ingredients or proportions outside of the ranges given here. You may share this diet protocol with others, with the provision that all the text is kept intact, including this disclaimer. We urge you to proceed only after discussion with your veterinary care professionals. Additional information on diet can be found at the following web sites:
Aunt Jeni's Home Made
Pets 4 Life
[h=3]BACKGROUND[/h] Cystinuria is an inherited, metabolic disorder. The affected individual has an impaired capacity for reabsorption of the amino acid, cystine, in the kidney tubules. Because cystine is not reabsorbed by the kidneys, it becomes a part of the kidneys’ product: urine. Therefore, cystinuric individuals have an excess of cystine in their urine. Most of the time, this excess cystine is simply excreted in the urine. Because cystine is one of the sulfur-containing amino acids, the urine may have a characteristic "rotten egg" odor.
As long as cystine stays in solution in the urine, it will be excreted without incident. It is when excessive cystine in the urine is not excreted that it becomes problematic. Sometimes, cystine will precipitate, or solidify, forming stones. You may also see stones referred to as crystals, uroliths, or calculi; these are interchangeable terms. Cystine stones can cause problems for the person or animal affected, by blocking the urethra, bladder, or kidney. This results in prevention or slowing of urination. There may be straining to pass the urine, and there may be blood in the urine. Some individuals will pass the actual stones, if they are small enough to be passed instead of causing blockage. In severe cases, the blockages can lead to rupture of the bladder or kidney, which may even be fatal.
[h=3]TREATMENT[/h] There are three methods of control for cystinuria.

  • Medical management is a possibility, through the administration of drugs that will help to dissolve the stones. The drugs will not prevent the stones from forming; they will only assist in "shrinking" already formed stones. Drugs also come with side effects, and may not be a wise course of treatment for long term use.
  • Surgery may be indicated, in certain individuals. Usually it has been found that the stones removed during surgery will eventually reform later on, necessitating further surgery or some other method of treatment.
  • Dietary modification, with the accompanying alkalinization of the urine, is the approach we recommend.
The intent of the dietary modification approach is to reduce the likelihood of the stones forming in the first place. This way, there is no need to surgically remove or medically shrink anything! It may seem that if we simply avoided feeding anything with cystine in it to the animal, that would solve the problem. After all, if there were no cystine, we would not have to worry about it being reabsorbed. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Cystine is not the "enemy", in fact, it is an essential amino acid, meaning it must be a part of the diet of a healthy individual. It is so necessary, that the body will actually manufacture cystine out of other amino acids (methionine) if the diet is deficient in cystine. So, we will always have to be concerned with how best to rid the body of the cystine that cannot be reabsorbed. Of course it also makes sense that feeding the lowest cystine-containing sources of foods is a smart thing to do; we just can’t expect to eliminate cystine from the diet completely. [h=3]GOAL OF THIS DIET[/h] There are many types of urine stones that can develop in people and animals. Cystine stones behave differently from other types of urinary stones (for example, struvite) in that they tend to form when their environment (the urine) is acidic (low pH). Therefore, our goal in modifying the diet of an affected individual is to alkalinize, or raise, the pH of the urine. This creates an environment where the excess cystine will be less likely to form into stones, and more likely to be excreted as part of the urine solution.
How do we control the pH of the urine? Well, the pH is largely influenced by the diet consumed. Generally speaking, high-protein diets, based on large quantities of meats, lead to acidic urine. Low-protein diets, based more on plant materials, lead to alkaline urine. This diet is designed to balance the proportions of meat and vegetables, such that the dogs’ requirement for protein is met, but not vastly exceeded. We have also carefully chosen the included food items based on their analyzed cystine and methionine content, selecting those with the least amount of these amino acids.
Another way to trick the urine into becoming more alkaline is to use what are called buffering agents. These are substances that will react in the digestive system and internal organs, to de-acidify, or "buffer" the urine components. This results in maintaining the pH at a higher level, thereby preventing stone formation. This diet offers the option of mixing some buffering agents into the food. The most common one is plain old baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Some of the other recommended supplements, such as special forms of vitamin C, also serve to help control the urine pH.
As you read through the actual diet below, it may be helpful to refer to this background information, so that the diet will make sense to you. Please also feel free to discuss the concepts presented here with your own veterinary health care professional, and proceed with his or her knowledge, and (hopefully) support. You may also contact either of us by email, to answer further questions or comments.
[h=3]CONCLUSION[/h] Thank you for reading this introductory material, and including it when sharing this diet with others. It is important to understand, as best we can, what is going on inside the bodies of our pets. This enables us to provide the best care we know how to give to them. Cystinuria can be controlled and managed; it need not mean illness or early death for your dog. It is not recommended to breed affected dogs, since this is a genetic condition. There is current research being conducted on cystinuric dogs, in an attempt to map the genes responsible and perhaps find a way to prevent its inheritability one day in the future.

 

dalmatina38

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I just picked Chunky up from the vet and he had Cystine Stones in his urinary tract that needed surgery to remove. He was also neutered while he was there. Some breeds of dogs get Cystine stones because they cannot process high protein content and cystine especially if they don't drink enough fluids and Chunky never has been a big drinker. I have always wet his food and give him probably 10-15 pieces of ice per day because he loves ice and wants some every time I go into the kitchen.

I had a Great Dane some years ago with this problem and the can food was really expensive; that is when I started making my own dog food. If you cannot find anything that will work for him I recommend investing in some large crockpots and fire them up. You can get some reasonably priced cuts of meats at Wal-mart such as roasts or bags of cat fish (they are really inexpensive). I have a few recipes that work extremely well and the dogs love them. Here are a few:

Catfish Chowder:
2 quarts of water
2 cups uncooked rice
1 quart chicken broth (if they are sensitive to chicken broth use vegetable broth)
4 potatoes peeled and chopped
4 yams or sweet potatoes peeled and chopped
1 pound of catfish fillets or nuggets
2 cups milk

Now, you can boil this off on the stove by taking water and cooking rice first, then cooking the potatoes and yams/sweet potatoes as if you were making them for mashed potatoes then remove everything from heat and put into one pan and cook for a few more minutes and add the catfish last for 4-6 minutes......or.......you can do what I do and get a up crockpot, put everything except the catfish in and let it cook while I am at work; when I get home I put the unthawed catfish in the crockpot with the rest of the ingredients and let it cook for about 10 minutes, then stir it up, let it cool down and you have low protein, great grub for the bullies. This makes about 8 quarts of food and I make it for my herd and they absolutely love it. I have too many to cook for everyday but they too like a treat a couple times a week. Good luck; let me know if you need a few more recipes; I have several from just trial and error. Good luck!!!!
1 24 oz pkg of frozen chopped collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, or spinach.
 
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Chunky White

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I had a Great Dane some years ago with this problem and the can food was really expensive; that is when I started making my own dog food. If you cannot find anything that will work for him I recommend investing in some large crockpots and fire them up. You can get some reasonably priced cuts of meats at Wal-mart such as roasts or bags of cat fish (they are really inexpensive). I have a few recipes that work extremely well and the dogs love them. Here are a few:

Catfish Chowder:
2 quarts of water
2 cups uncooked rice
1 quart chicken broth (if they are sensitive to chicken broth use vegetable broth)
4 potatoes peeled and chopped
4 yams or sweet potatoes peeled and chopped
1 pound of catfish fillets or nuggets
2 cups milk

Now, you can boil this off on the stove by taking water and cooking rice first, then cooking the potatoes and yams/sweet potatoes as if you were making them for mashed potatoes then remove everything from heat and put into one pan and cook for a few more minutes and add the catfish last for 4-6 minutes......or.......you can do what I do and get a up crockpot, put everything except the catfish in and let it cook while I am at work; when I get home I put the unthawed catfish in the crockpot with the rest of the ingredients and let it cook for about 10 minutes, then stir it up, let it cool down and you have low protein, great grub for the bullies. This makes about 8 quarts of food and I make it for my herd and they absolutely love it. I have too many to cook for everyday but they too like a treat a couple times a week. Good luck; let me know if you need a few more recipes; I have several from just trial and error. Good luck!!!!
1 24 oz pkg of frozen chopped collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, or spinach.


Thanks

I am going to try Honest Kitchen and see how that works but might take you up on your offer of recipes if he doesn't have any luck with it. I am not worried about protein as much as I am finding something low in phosphorus and cystine and getting him to drink more fluids. I am not sure how I will get him to drink more though
 

helsonwheels

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Thanks

I am going to try Honest Kitchen and see how that works but might take you up on your offer of recipes if he doesn't have any luck with it. I am not worried about protein as much as I am finding something low in phosphorus and cystine and getting him to drink more fluids. I am not sure how I will get him to drink more though

Just remember one thing. When you home cook, raw, honest kitchen they do not drink as much water. It's normal as what they are eating, it already have tons of moisture. I always top nyala's HC with the broth from her boiled turkey and veggies.
 

NewEnglandBully

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Thanks

I am going to try Honest Kitchen and see how that works but might take you up on your offer of recipes if he doesn't have any luck with it. I am not worried about protein as much as I am finding something low in phosphorus and cystine and getting him to drink more fluids. I am not sure how I will get him to drink more though

consider adding the ACV to the HK food instead of adding to the water for Chunky's situation to help w/the PH balance…another thing I read was to do distilled water (I believe it comes bottled, but you can make your own). Def. keep trying to pump that water through…ask your vet if you can add a cranberry supplement/treat in the water to get him to want to drink more.
 
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Chunky White

Chunky White

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consider adding the ACV to the HK food instead of adding to the water for Chunky's situation to help w/the PH balance…another thing I read was to do distilled water (I believe it comes bottled, but you can make your own). Def. keep trying to pump that water through…ask your vet if you can add a cranberry supplement/treat in the water to get him to want to drink more.

I have always added the ACV to his food since he doesn't drink from his water bowl much. I havent been giving him ACV since he started having issues because I was trying to eliminate anything that could possibly be an issue and wasn't sure what all the amino acids were in ACV. Cystine is an amino acid
 

NewEnglandBully

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I have always added the ACV to his food since he doesn't drink from his water bowl much. I havent been giving him ACV since he started having issues because I was trying to eliminate anything that could possibly be an issue and wasn't sure what all the amino acids were in ACV. Cystine is an amino acid
Interesting…I have always read how ACV assists in dissolving stones, however, maybe a different type of stone…the vet is sure it's Cystine?
I could not find the amino acid content either and I'm glad you brought this up! I put in an e-mail to the BRAGGS family about the amino content in their bottles…maybe they do not offer this as the aminos are found in "the mother" and there is no way to measure how much mother is in one bottle? <- just a guess…
How is Chunky doing today btw?
 
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Chunky White

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Interesting…I have always read how ACV assists in dissolving stones, however, maybe a different type of stone…the vet is sure it's Cystine?
I could not find the amino acid content either and I'm glad you brought this up! I put in an e-mail to the BRAGGS family about the amino content in their bottles…maybe they do not offer this as the aminos are found in "the mother" and there is no way to measure how much mother is in one bottle? <- just a guess…
How is Chunky doing today btw?


Chunky is doing fine and as energetic as always unless he is resting. He is now peeing like he should but I still feel he isn't hold it as long as he should and I am sure that will improve over time. I just bought some Honest Kitchen grain free turkey and parsnip that I am going to try
 

NewEnglandBully

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Chunky is doing fine and as energetic as always unless he is resting. He is now peeing like he should but I still feel he isn't hold it as long as he should and I am sure that will improve over time. I just bought some Honest Kitchen grain free turkey and parsnip that I am going to try
Good choice! He's a lucky bullie to have such a caring DAd!!
 

2BullyMama

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Chunky is doing fine and as energetic as always unless he is resting. He is now peeing like he should but I still feel he isn't hold it as long as he should and I am sure that will improve over time. I just bought some Honest Kitchen grain free turkey and parsnip that I am going to try

My guys LOVE THK... I'm just too lazy or busy to go that route for them full time. Bad mama, I know! :(
 
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Chunky White

Chunky White

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My guys LOVE THK... I'm just too lazy or busy to go that route for them full time. Bad mama, I know! :(

After mixing him up his dinner of half THK and Acana I realized I will need to wake up 5 minutes earlier to feed him and still make it to work on time. I need to figure out what the correct mixture of water to THK so it will be more solid than what it was tonight. I am almost out of Acana so I will try to wean him off of it and work on the mixture

- - - Updated - - -

Good choice! He's a lucky bullie to have such a caring DAd!!

I think I am the lucky one to have him.
 

2BullyMama

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After mixing him up his dinner of half THK and Acana I realized I will need to wake up 5 minutes earlier to feed him and still make it to work on time. I need to figure out what the correct mixture of water to THK so it will be more solid than what it was tonight. I am almost out of Acana so I will try to wean him off of it and work on the mixture

- - - Updated - - -



I think I am the lucky one to have him.

When I fed THK, I just went right to it and there was no issue at all... no runny poo, no anything-- all normal. they did however, poo less
 
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Chunky White

Chunky White

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When I fed THK, I just went right to it and there was no issue at all... no runny poo, no anything-- all normal. they did however, poo less

I might try just THK saturday morning and see how he does and if I need to gradually move him onto THK I will go back to half and half. He didn't have any issues tonight
 

TyTysmom

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After mixing him up his dinner of half THK and Acana I realized I will need to wake up 5 minutes earlier to feed him and still make it to work on time. I need to figure out what the correct mixture of water to THK so it will be more solid than what it was tonight. I am almost out of Acana so I will try to wean him off of it and work on the mixture

- - - Updated - - -



I think I am the lucky one to have him.

We prep Tyson HK when we feed him for the next meal. Does that make sense? Lol I use a glass Pyrex and prep his morning meal at dinner. At breakfast after he eats I prep his dinner. Just makes things faster. His meat I cook once a week too. Which HK did you go with??

It's always going to be a little mushy, but will firm up the longer the water has to soak in :) its messy. But all worth it truly if it works *crossing my paws

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Chunky White

Chunky White

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We prep Tyson HK when we feed him for the next meal. Does that make sense? Lol I use a glass Pyrex and prep his morning meal at dinner. At breakfast after he eats I prep his dinner. Just makes things faster. His meat I cook once a week too. Which HK did you go with??

It's always going to be a little mushy, but will firm up the longer the water has to soak in :) its messy. But all worth it truly if it works *crossing my paws

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I went with Turkey and Parsnip which is grain free. I mixed 3/4 a cup of THK and 3/4 warm water and let it sit for 3 minutes like the instructions said. I didn't give him a whole meals worth and probably added too much water since it was really runny but he needs to drink more water anyway.

Do you mix it and let it set all day or prep it and have it ready for water at the next meal? I used a glass pyrex measuring cup also
 

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